Tactics and Formations (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter JCK
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Good article, it baffles the mind the time Allegri took to figure that out (hopefully he has) about Pjanic.
Conte thought 352 suited us best when he took over and he was right. Our weapons were an aging Pirlo, a WC playmaker who HAD to stay deep and be protected + we have/had decent CBs. We also had headless chickens in pepe giach, pado, estegaribia, only offered stamina and running and were decent ball getters and we also had Vidal. Specially when llorente was added , 352 suited our roster and our playing style suited our system..Now we are not that team anymore, we are not merely a possesion/pressing all the time team.. we have the talent and capability up front to break out of this one demensional shell, which kills us in the CL. 352 makes us take our own space away when we have potentially top 3 top 5 counter attack capability in Europe.If you notice even when we play 433 our playing style is still that of 352 which prompts the question why stick to something that is holding you back? Our style needs to change, not only by formation. or dont be surprised by an early exit in hands of porto, let alone reaching the final.
"Juventus likes to control possession. They seem to exert more dominance over lesser Serie A competitions. Stronger teams, however, restrain their possession-based offensive games. The number of passes per possession is fewer against the European teams"
Conte thought 352 suited us best when he took over and he was right. Our weapons were an aging Pirlo, a WC playmaker who HAD to stay deep and be protected + we have/had decent CBs. We also had headless chickens in pepe giach, pado, estegaribia, only offered stamina and running and were decent ball getters and we also had Vidal. Specially when llorente was added , 352 suited our roster and our playing style suited our system..Now we are not that team anymore, we are not merely a possesion/pressing all the time team.. we have the talent and capability up front to break out of this one demensional shell, which kills us in the CL. 352 makes us take our own space away when we have potentially top 3 top 5 counter attack capability in Europe.If you notice even when we play 433 our playing style is still that of 352 which prompts the question why stick to something that is holding you back? Our style needs to change, not only by formation. or dont be surprised by an early exit in hands of porto, let alone reaching the final.
"Juventus likes to control possession. They seem to exert more dominance over lesser Serie A competitions. Stronger teams, however, restrain their possession-based offensive games. The number of passes per possession is fewer against the European teams"
Portu you mean?.
Anyways, thats exactly what i have been saying since day one. And i was hoping allegri would experiment more with the 4312 on preseason, but it was not the case. Still, we didnt had the players to do so... becauseour midfield is way too weak right now.
But It irks me because we have players like Pjaca who could potentially let us play 433, in the past we didnt had this kind of players...so we should make use of them and work with what we have. We cannot rely forever on our BBC, and the 352 was good for us because of a sublime vidal-Pirlo-Pogba-Marchisio midfield.
Now only marchisio is left an the rest are a bunch of underperformers. We need to sign new players on mid and change system.
Anyways, thats exactly what i have been saying since day one. And i was hoping allegri would experiment more with the 4312 on preseason, but it was not the case. Still, we didnt had the players to do so... becauseour midfield is way too weak right now.
But It irks me because we have players like Pjaca who could potentially let us play 433, in the past we didnt had this kind of players...so we should make use of them and work with what we have. We cannot rely forever on our BBC, and the 352 was good for us because of a sublime vidal-Pirlo-Pogba-Marchisio midfield.
Now only marchisio is left an the rest are a bunch of underperformers. We need to sign new players on mid and change system.
Allegri did change our team to 4-3-1-2 almost instantly when he came. We started last season playing 4-3-3 and changed back to 3-5-2 because we had bad results at the start. It was natural to change back to a formation which brought us solidity with players being familiar and comfortable with it. Then we went on a crazy run winning every game we played, no sane manager would change formation at that point.
Now we've again been experimenting at the start of the season to learn our strongest formation keeping 3-5-2 as the safety blanket to fall on. Formations are overrated anyways what matters is that we show the right commitment and the right concentration. We will always have the three players in the middle so these formations even on paper are also very similar, what changes is that either we have a third centerback or an AM. That doesn't take too much tactical alteration.
Now we've again been experimenting at the start of the season to learn our strongest formation keeping 3-5-2 as the safety blanket to fall on. Formations are overrated anyways what matters is that we show the right commitment and the right concentration. We will always have the three players in the middle so these formations even on paper are also very similar, what changes is that either we have a third centerback or an AM. That doesn't take too much tactical alteration.
Yeah, for some reason I thought we drew thier league leaders.
Congrats on the wedding by the way, nice to have known ya!
Just can't help to think this team would eat lighting and craap thunder under a coach like Conte. Not enough grinta, restricted in ideas..idk..if Dybala wants to become a deity in Turin this is the time, he will be a bigger factor than Higuain.
Congrats on the wedding by the way, nice to have known ya!
Just can't help to think this team would eat lighting and craap thunder under a coach like Conte. Not enough grinta, restricted in ideas..idk..if Dybala wants to become a deity in Turin this is the time, he will be a bigger factor than Higuain.
is very good that our theoricrafts are put in number by this guy, this way is not only just words but actual info.
Thats whay i say that our formation for now (untilpjaca returns and shows for real what he got)...should be 4312..... BUT...we need better players behind Pjanic as treq. Thats not negotiable.
We need dybala and Pjanic to be involved in plays as much as possible. At the same time, we need serious ball winners behind Pjanic in case he messes up...because we need to release him from defensive duties and let him focus on attacking and assisting.
Higuain and Mandz should share spoils as spearheads. Dybala as SS , or even AM when Pjanic is not around...should be the only way.
--------------Buffon-------
RB-------Rugani--Bon-----Sandro
--5starDM--Marchisio--5starDM--
--------------Pjanic---------------
------Dybala--------Pipa-----------
or 433:
--------------Buffon-------
RB-------Rugani--Bon-----Sandro
--5starDM--Marchisio--5starDM--
----Dybala---Pipa-----Pjaca------
This 2 formations should be our aim for this upcoming half of the season, and we need to make it real finally in the coming summer.
We do this, and we will improve A LOT.
Thats whay i say that our formation for now (untilpjaca returns and shows for real what he got)...should be 4312..... BUT...we need better players behind Pjanic as treq. Thats not negotiable.
We need dybala and Pjanic to be involved in plays as much as possible. At the same time, we need serious ball winners behind Pjanic in case he messes up...because we need to release him from defensive duties and let him focus on attacking and assisting.
Higuain and Mandz should share spoils as spearheads. Dybala as SS , or even AM when Pjanic is not around...should be the only way.
--------------Buffon-------
RB-------Rugani--Bon-----Sandro
--5starDM--Marchisio--5starDM--
--------------Pjanic---------------
------Dybala--------Pipa-----------
or 433:
--------------Buffon-------
RB-------Rugani--Bon-----Sandro
--5starDM--Marchisio--5starDM--
----Dybala---Pipa-----Pjaca------
This 2 formations should be our aim for this upcoming half of the season, and we need to make it real finally in the coming summer.
We do this, and we will improve A LOT.
I don't think you read carefully at all, nobody is pointing to formation only. The league is completely different matter to CL, we can play any damn way we want in serie A and be fine. The problem is when we try a different system (by this I dont mean only formation)the team doesn't click. This is because Allegri didn't stick to it, as he did when he came he quickly switched back. Do you expect a team to gel and adapt in beginning of the season in just a few matches?
As I said all the formations we play have pretty much the same basic ideas and structure it doesn't take too much getting used to. What has the bigger effect is the personnel and the commitment we show.
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Also degrading Serie A is getting an old argument. It's a completely good league we're just very good.
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Also degrading Serie A is getting an old argument. It's a completely good league we're just very good.
You are basically describing 3-5-2 there.
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Now you are making your own conclusions that's not at all what I said. We have tactics and formations in place that we know very well. The difference in playing bad or good is the way our players perform on the pitch. For example against Genoa no formation or number on the paper would have made the difference, us showing up mentally would have helped though.
Buffon
Rugani Bonucci Chiellini
Cuadrado Lemina Marchisio Alex Sandro
Pjanic
Dybala Higuain
Rugani Bonucci Chiellini
Cuadrado Lemina Marchisio Alex Sandro
Pjanic
Dybala Higuain
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Now you are making your own conclusions that's not at all what I said. We have tactics and formations in place that we know very well. The difference in playing bad or good is the way our players perform on the pitch. For example against Genoa no formation or number on the paper would have made the difference, us showing up mentally would have helped though.
No I'm not describing 352, because roles are different and philosophy of play which the formation dictates (and vise versa) is different. The formation that we know very well 352 is stale and one demensional and doesn't make effective use of our capabilities we have. Its all we know. Players being able to do what they are asked, is a different matter from whether how they are asked to play is the right way for this team. Lack of focus explains the Genoa game but overall we have seen lack of ideas from Allegri rather than lack of focus from the players.
Continues use of 352 taking away our own space by constant pressing..this is not a headless chicken team of pepe and padoin nor do we have quag and llorente.
Let's see what he does once the injured are back..
Continues use of 352 taking away our own space by constant pressing..this is not a headless chicken team of pepe and padoin nor do we have quag and llorente.
Let's see what he does once the injured are back..
It has already happened on a few occasions this season. Remember the Lyon home game where we almost blew it near the end?