Tactics and Formations (42 Viewers)

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
24,068
I prefer build up play and hopefully we won't see many goal kicks this year. Conte likes to play from the back and with a reason. Our defenders and midfielders are more than capable of handling pressure. Goal kicks are more suited for teams with lack of qualitative distributors.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
I think it's part of the recent thinking that possession = winning (or at least possession being the single most important factor).

The conundrum reminds me of rugby, actually. In that game, possession is only really worth something if enjoyed in the opponents half. Territory is of massive importance and turning the ball over to your opponent by way of well placed punts is a very valid and thoughtful tactic. It gives you the opportunity of then turning the ball over in an area where it can instantly hurt your opponent or, at the very least, apply pressure to them in an area where they wouldn't want to make mistakes. That used to be part of association football too.

Obviously the sports are different and the mechanics and tactics are also, but a well placed goal kick into the opponents territory reminds me of a well placed punt in rugby - with the added benefit of footballers being allowed in front of the ball and thus giving a higher chance of winning back possession.

In any case, doing things the same way all the time doesn't generally sit well with me. If Llorente kicks on there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't explore territory options further by way of proper goal kicks. If one can point the finger at any part of our winning tactics, it would be that we're not exactly "mixing it up" and that we've been a little vulnerable when our "playmaking" defenders have been pressed in an organised fashion.
I have frequently advocated Rugby-type tactics in football when other things aren't working.

I always like to see balls being chipped into space behind a defence and for the whole team to push up behind it and put pressure on the opposition.

Very often you will at least end up getting a throw-in high up the pitch if the forwards apply proper pressure on the defender who is chasing back and has nowhere to go when facing his own goal.

I'd have looked for Juve to play like that in Munich once it became apparent they were really struggling to play out from the back and the forwards weren't managing to hold the ball up.

These simple, safe tactics just seem terribly unfashionable just now.
 
Apr 19, 2007
3,959
Yes this is always a very interesting debate about possession. As deep c stated possesion is worthless unless in dangerous areas. There are some really good arcticles out there on possession vs position basically meaning you have to control one of the two things. Obviously everyone concedes possesion to barca but other teams as well depending there level but the wuestion is where do you let them have the ball before you press. The better the team the more compact you need to be. Traditionally you can sit back to put players in front of goal similar to what Milan did in the first leg last season but as everyone knows to well there is now the trend of pressing equally as organized high up the field and for long periods of time. Anyway you can lose possession battle but you have yo win the positional battle on the field and mark which territory is yours and do so effectively

- - - Updated - - -

the 4-3-3 bullshit makes me sick and it is my favorite formation. Have you no respect for what conte has done? we are so predictable? maybve but so is every formation really. Man city isnt good enough to pull off a predictable 4-2-3-1 . Arsenal dont have the players to compete and Barcelona and spain are the most predictable teams in the world. All you have to do is set a line and play in behind them but when your better than the other team you win. We have not reached our maximum level with the 3-5-2 yet. I could easily see us finishing 2-3 in the league and not shit in cl if we switched over. Wake up people we have a great tactical situation with a brilliant coach at the wheel who knows what he is doing.
 

Adrian

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2003
6,880
I would much rather see short kick ins to players who can distribute the ball than see buffon hoof the ball up and hope one of our "physical" players directs it down to a midfielder.

I agree with Edgar, we haven't seen the best of out what conte has created and this season hopefully this will happen with a decent strike pairing.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
24,068
I would much rather see short kick ins to players who can distribute the ball than see buffon hoof the ball up and hope one of our "physical" players directs it down to a midfielder.
It would be terrible indeed. Conte likes those short kicks and I think most people agree over this matter.
 

Deep C

Senior Member
Apr 8, 2012
2,096
I have frequently advocated Rugby-type tactics in football when other things aren't working.

I always like to see balls being chipped into space behind a defence and for the whole team to push up behind it and put pressure on the opposition.

Very often you will at least end up getting a throw-in high up the pitch if the forwards apply proper pressure on the defender who is chasing back and has nowhere to go when facing his own goal.

I'd have looked for Juve to play like that in Munich once it became apparent they were really struggling to play out from the back and the forwards weren't managing to hold the ball up.

These simple, safe tactics just seem terribly unfashionable just now.
It's a shame, really. Sports such as football and rugby really interest me to a large degree due to the variety of tactics, shapes and application. And it seems to me a global truism that you can only ever be assured of success if you have a concept that is supplemented by tactical variation - the ability to go to plans b and c if a doesn't cut it.

The mantra I had beaten into me was always "Play what's in front of you". It seems, though, that certain tactics in football have become absolute truths. Anything that's not short passing, build up from the back, high pressure and one-two finishing is anti-football and will not win you anything, apparently.

Absolutism sucks balls.

Just because you once and a while utilise a long goal kick to a target man doesn't mean you've changed concept. Just because you sit back for 10 minutes and pull the opposition forward doesn't mean you've surrendered control. It just means that you're not a one trick pony, but people (and coaches) seem obsessed with CONCEPTS these days.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,834
It's a shame, really. Sports such as football and rugby really interest me to a large degree due to the variety of tactics, shapes and application. And it seems to me a global truism that you can only ever be assured of success if you have a concept that is supplemented by tactical variation - the ability to go to plans b and c if a doesn't cut it.

The mantra I had beaten into me was always "Play what's in front of you". It seems, though, that certain tactics in football have become absolute truths. Anything that's not short passing, build up from the back, high pressure and one-two finishing is anti-football and will not win you anything, apparently.

Absolutism sucks balls.

Just because you once and a while utilise a long goal kick to a target man doesn't mean you've changed concept. Just because you sit back for 10 minutes and pull the opposition forward doesn't mean you've surrendered control. It just means that you're not a one trick pony, but people (and coaches) seem obsessed with CONCEPTS these days.
I hate this word so much.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
As do I. This fucking tiki taki bandwagon is disgusting

And the best tactic against it : defend in numbers or better, crowd the midfield and force them into duels, is immediatly called anti football.
 

Klin

نحن الروبوتات
May 27, 2009
61,692
anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,834
As do I. This fucking tiki taki bandwagon is disgusting

And the best tactic against it : defend in numbers or better, crowd the midfield and force them into duels, is immediatly called anti football.
Passing around the back for an hour and a half is more "anti-football" than anything else really.

- - - Updated - - -

anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football anti-football
I like how you've made it into a perfect square.
 

Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
Yes this is always a very interesting debate about possession. As deep c stated possesion is worthless unless in dangerous areas. There are some really good arcticles out there on possession vs position basically meaning you have to control one of the two things. Obviously everyone concedes possesion to barca but other teams as well depending there level but the wuestion is where do you let them have the ball before you press. The better the team the more compact you need to be. Traditionally you can sit back to put players in front of goal similar to what Milan did in the first leg last season but as everyone knows to well there is now the trend of pressing equally as organized high up the field and for long periods of time. Anyway you can lose possession battle but you have yo win the positional battle on the field and mark which territory is yours and do so effectively
Yup.

I will almost invariably prioritise maintaining the shape and position of the team over keeping possession.

It's a shame, really. Sports such as football and rugby really interest me to a large degree due to the variety of tactics, shapes and application. And it seems to me a global truism that you can only ever be assured of success if you have a concept that is supplemented by tactical variation - the ability to go to plans b and c if a doesn't cut it.

The mantra I had beaten into me was always "Play what's in front of you". It seems, though, that certain tactics in football have become absolute truths. Anything that's not short passing, build up from the back, high pressure and one-two finishing is anti-football and will not win you anything, apparently.

Absolutism sucks balls.

Just because you once and a while utilise a long goal kick to a target man doesn't mean you've changed concept. Just because you sit back for 10 minutes and pull the opposition forward doesn't mean you've surrendered control. It just means that you're not a one trick pony, but people (and coaches) seem obsessed with CONCEPTS these days.
Yeah, it's the lack of variation that gets me.

I'm not saying that in an ideal world Juve wouldn't play goal-kicks short every time and build the play from the back.

However, if a team knows you are going to do it every time, they can counter it pretty effectively.

If Juve played, say, every fourth goal-kick long, it would make the opposition think twice about committing so many people forward to press high up the pitch, which could well make it easier for Juve to play out from the back on the occasions that they do choose to play short.

Same thing that can be applied in open play. If a team wants to press you, play long over the press a couple of times - either over the defence or into the feet/chest of the centre-forward - and see if the opponent is as keen to keep pressing as hard as they would if they thought you would play short relentlessly.
 

Mr Chocolate

Rubba Band Business
Dec 23, 2012
6,702
Am I the only one who can't stand watching barca play, all they do is keep the ball. 'exciting' my fat unshaven ass its the most repetative shit I've ever seen, nothing better than a good old defend then quick counter attack
 

piotrr

Мodеrator
Sep 13, 2011
34,009
Am I the only one who can't stand watching barca play, all they do is keep the ball. 'exciting' my fat unshaven ass its the most repetative shit I've ever seen, nothing better than a good old defend then quick counter attack
You're not the only one mate. I hate watching Barcelona and their possession football, it's so boring i prefer to turn the match off and do something else.
 

Red

-------
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006
47,024
Depends which Barca you are talking about.

The way the Barca team with Eto'o and Henry played was tremendous.

In recent years, as effective as they have been at times, it has mostly been mind-numbing to watch.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Depends which Barca you are talking about.

The way the Barca team with Eto'o and Henry played was tremendous.

In recent years, as effective as they have been at times, it has mostly been mind-numbing to watch.
eto'o barcelona wasent tiki taki imoi. They allways have had high passing, but that was mostly brutal pace and vertical passing. not this pathetic 5million horizontal passes crap
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 36)