reducing the size something costs accidents...remember Juve vs Liverpool...people will still want to go to the match
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Stadio Delle Alpi (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
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Well.. yes.. under a lot of aspects it is, yeah.
I think i wrote "probably to buy Stream". I knew only the version said to the public, didnt know the details. Thanx for the great post. Btw i totally agree about ManUTD. In Europe, there's no contest: Juve fans are the most. Always been like that. Juve problem is that we dont use this power. Outside Europe they rarely know our new shirts. All they can have are the old Sony ones, or Tele+ ones. I mean... we have NO merchandise in Asia (NUMBER 1 PLACE) and in America! Damn! Even in the States! And in South America we are the most popular team with/after Napoli, probably. But the fact that we dont have South Americans (i mean Argentina-Brazil) players (but Camoranesi, probably unknown in Argentina) is now letting us loose this "power". Now it's Barca, Roma, Lazio... those teams. We gotta use our power. Expecially in Asia. Let's make tours there. Let's make a friendly in Japan. Let's play SuperCup there! Do something. I'm pretty positive about this new Juve project. I hope from new year (with Nike, probably) things will change. Juve really said that they wanna use merchandise and the stadium like ManUTD and other major clubs. If we do it right, we will be number 1 cause nobody got our fans. NOBODY. Here in Italy they dont even sell original jerseys of Juve (but in Turin and online, in some unknown sites!). And the prices are 60$ for a jersey only. DAMN! Start a real merchandise thing, decrease the price, build Juve points. Move things! I'm pretty positive we will. I keep the faith in this project. We got no economical problems now, finally. This is the right time to do it.
I think i wrote "probably to buy Stream". I knew only the version said to the public, didnt know the details. Thanx for the great post. Btw i totally agree about ManUTD. In Europe, there's no contest: Juve fans are the most. Always been like that. Juve problem is that we dont use this power. Outside Europe they rarely know our new shirts. All they can have are the old Sony ones, or Tele+ ones. I mean... we have NO merchandise in Asia (NUMBER 1 PLACE) and in America! Damn! Even in the States! And in South America we are the most popular team with/after Napoli, probably. But the fact that we dont have South Americans (i mean Argentina-Brazil) players (but Camoranesi, probably unknown in Argentina) is now letting us loose this "power". Now it's Barca, Roma, Lazio... those teams. We gotta use our power. Expecially in Asia. Let's make tours there. Let's make a friendly in Japan. Let's play SuperCup there! Do something. I'm pretty positive about this new Juve project. I hope from new year (with Nike, probably) things will change. Juve really said that they wanna use merchandise and the stadium like ManUTD and other major clubs. If we do it right, we will be number 1 cause nobody got our fans. NOBODY. Here in Italy they dont even sell original jerseys of Juve (but in Turin and online, in some unknown sites!). And the prices are 60$ for a jersey only. DAMN! Start a real merchandise thing, decrease the price, build Juve points. Move things! I'm pretty positive we will. I keep the faith in this project. We got no economical problems now, finally. This is the right time to do it.
Cause i refuse this word. Under the word "ULTRA" there are a lot of criminals and morons we are free to do everything they want just cause they "ULTRA". I'm tyred of hearing morons saying "If you dont beat police you aint ULTRA". "If you dont help us to kick Roma fan's ass you aint ULTRA". "If you dont scream ROMA MERDA you aint ULTRA". That's bullshit. Let's call them FANS. Just cause i dont want guys to use this word as an excuse. We all fans. Some are inscribed in clubs. Some doesnt have money to see all the games. Some works so cant follow Juve worldwide. Some are paid by Juventus. Some are families. They all fans. Who is really an "ultrà"? Who goes to see Juve in Bari? Mmmmm.. not only (expecially cause a lot of them aint from Turin and a lot of them doesnt even pay!).
You got it all wrong. :nervous:
Man.. not only by reducing the size. But making the stadium as a theater for football only. And with more security. With videocamere's, with those things. Maybe we will not win the war, but in England the situation is different imo. That's where we gotta see. Do you really want to see again scenes like a motocar launched from a curva in San Siro? Or criminals beating police? Juve will do EVERYTHING to cut this shit from FOOTBALL.
I never did. It's only you who are understanding it in this way. I'm just saying that we have to separate real fans from morons, in the curve. A lot of them are real fans, a lot are morons. Real fans are EVERYTHING. Morons are the CANCER. We gotta reduce morons, not everyone in the curva.
Again.. i said it already a lot of times! IT'S NOT A THING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF FANS!! IT'S ABOUT THE MENTALITY! TO BUILT THE STADIUM FOR FOOTBALL. SECURE. And to do that Juve said they'll reduce the number of fans. But that's a consequence, not the soluction. Then the number can change, that's only up to Juve. They know what's better for them economically and in general. I like the MENTALITY. WHAT THEY WANNA CHANGE. The fact that by changing the stadium they'll have to reduce the fans, that's just a consequence. But if the reasons are those ones, i'm cool with it.
Feel you. I'd love GAETANO SCIREA too. Or even more Juve to play in COMUNALE. But.. we cant do anything. They are trying to see the best ways to escape from problems that will start from 2003.
I disagree. Not about the thing you said. But about a word. RACIST FANS. NO. Juve got ignorant morons in the Delle Alpi stadium too. It has nothing to do with fans. It has to do with ignorance. They just ignorants.
You got it all wrong. :nervous:
Man.. not only by reducing the size. But making the stadium as a theater for football only. And with more security. With videocamere's, with those things. Maybe we will not win the war, but in England the situation is different imo. That's where we gotta see. Do you really want to see again scenes like a motocar launched from a curva in San Siro? Or criminals beating police? Juve will do EVERYTHING to cut this shit from FOOTBALL.
I never did. It's only you who are understanding it in this way. I'm just saying that we have to separate real fans from morons, in the curve. A lot of them are real fans, a lot are morons. Real fans are EVERYTHING. Morons are the CANCER. We gotta reduce morons, not everyone in the curva.
Again.. i said it already a lot of times! IT'S NOT A THING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF FANS!! IT'S ABOUT THE MENTALITY! TO BUILT THE STADIUM FOR FOOTBALL. SECURE. And to do that Juve said they'll reduce the number of fans. But that's a consequence, not the soluction. Then the number can change, that's only up to Juve. They know what's better for them economically and in general. I like the MENTALITY. WHAT THEY WANNA CHANGE. The fact that by changing the stadium they'll have to reduce the fans, that's just a consequence. But if the reasons are those ones, i'm cool with it.
Feel you. I'd love GAETANO SCIREA too. Or even more Juve to play in COMUNALE. But.. we cant do anything. They are trying to see the best ways to escape from problems that will start from 2003.
I disagree. Not about the thing you said. But about a word. RACIST FANS. NO. Juve got ignorant morons in the Delle Alpi stadium too. It has nothing to do with fans. It has to do with ignorance. They just ignorants.
Thankyou antonio!!
Drifting a bit off topic id like to tell you a little mor e about telepui and news corp and the italian football problem.
For those that dont know telepui is basically canal+ italy...
As you know ppv football in italy is shared between telepui and stream.... now this is the start of the problems....
When the ppv rights came up, news corp bought into stream and offered far more than stream could afford in an attempt to harm canal+..... this came off badly as both companies ended up paying more than intended and basically meant the death of stream.
Over the last year canal plus have been engaged in a legal battle with nds.
bit of background: All canal+ arms have been using the mediaguard encrytion system.... also known as seca (including telepui). nds is the encrytion sytem used by sky and more recently stream and telepui...... nds is the baby of one news corp!!
Now the single biggest problem that has destroyed canal+ and telepui is piracy, which is very simple for the mediaguard sytem. up until recently nds was the only encrytion format not to have been hacked.... the new seca 2 system is also secure(for the moment)
Canal+ have been sueing nds as it turns out thatr the reason there system was cracked was that news corp spend millions reseaching there rivals system and then released the results to the public viaq the web..... overnight doing irrepairable damage to canal plus.
Suddenly a little while ago the case was dropped.... why????
as it turns out news corp bought a massive chunk of canal plus to get out of the legal action.... This then leads into the telepui / stream merger and the present situation.
hopefully you can see how all this ties togeather and how it is behind the problems that have come raining down on world football!!!
So as you can see a man regarded by many as the most powerful man in world football is also the guy trying to kill it!!!
anyway.... sorry to drift off subject.
Drifting a bit off topic id like to tell you a little mor e about telepui and news corp and the italian football problem.
For those that dont know telepui is basically canal+ italy...
As you know ppv football in italy is shared between telepui and stream.... now this is the start of the problems....
When the ppv rights came up, news corp bought into stream and offered far more than stream could afford in an attempt to harm canal+..... this came off badly as both companies ended up paying more than intended and basically meant the death of stream.
Over the last year canal plus have been engaged in a legal battle with nds.
bit of background: All canal+ arms have been using the mediaguard encrytion system.... also known as seca (including telepui). nds is the encrytion sytem used by sky and more recently stream and telepui...... nds is the baby of one news corp!!
Now the single biggest problem that has destroyed canal+ and telepui is piracy, which is very simple for the mediaguard sytem. up until recently nds was the only encrytion format not to have been hacked.... the new seca 2 system is also secure(for the moment)
Canal+ have been sueing nds as it turns out thatr the reason there system was cracked was that news corp spend millions reseaching there rivals system and then released the results to the public viaq the web..... overnight doing irrepairable damage to canal plus.
Suddenly a little while ago the case was dropped.... why????
as it turns out news corp bought a massive chunk of canal plus to get out of the legal action.... This then leads into the telepui / stream merger and the present situation.
hopefully you can see how all this ties togeather and how it is behind the problems that have come raining down on world football!!!
So as you can see a man regarded by many as the most powerful man in world football is also the guy trying to kill it!!!
anyway.... sorry to drift off subject.
Criminals are criminals, not Ultras.
Well, you picture a strange image of Ultras. For me, it's fans, who would give their last money to see Juve live. Just me.
Too bad.
Well, then we do agree.
Anyway, it's hard for me to believe that so many fans in the curves are "morons".
But I think the management should ban people from the stadium, who just come there to be violent. It's just hard to realise this.
They want to change the stadium. But they can change it without smallering it, or am I wrong here? Skip the running track, but don't reduce the size. OK, we don't need a 70 000 stadium, but 55k - 60k will do.
Actually, I wasn't talking about a Scirea - stadium. Any other name will do, as long as it keeps our tradition up. And I think we can escape problems without offending our past.
I read through the official Fighters - forum sometimes and trust me, there are fascist and racist Juve Fans. The situation isn't like the one of Lazio, but they are there.
Well, you picture a strange image of Ultras. For me, it's fans, who would give their last money to see Juve live. Just me.
Too bad.
Well, then we do agree.
Anyway, it's hard for me to believe that so many fans in the curves are "morons".
But I think the management should ban people from the stadium, who just come there to be violent. It's just hard to realise this.
They want to change the stadium. But they can change it without smallering it, or am I wrong here? Skip the running track, but don't reduce the size. OK, we don't need a 70 000 stadium, but 55k - 60k will do.
Actually, I wasn't talking about a Scirea - stadium. Any other name will do, as long as it keeps our tradition up. And I think we can escape problems without offending our past.
I read through the official Fighters - forum sometimes and trust me, there are fascist and racist Juve Fans. The situation isn't like the one of Lazio, but they are there.
i will simply put it this way instead of arguing for a page and a half:
JUVENTUS is the BIGGEST club in Italy and in the Top five clubs in Europe and top Ten in the World.
According to the DOXA servey, in 1999 32% of soccer fans in Italy support Juventus! (milan in second place with 16%)
with these facts, do you really think that building a 30,000 fan stadium is a good idea!!!
Imagine that if the stadium plans go through, Birmingham City will have a bigger stadium than juve! (31k)
This IN NO WAY SOUNDS RIGHT!! NO MATTER WHAT THE FINANCIAL SITUATION IS LIKE NOW!!
JUVENTUS is the BIGGEST club in Italy and in the Top five clubs in Europe and top Ten in the World.
According to the DOXA servey, in 1999 32% of soccer fans in Italy support Juventus! (milan in second place with 16%)
with these facts, do you really think that building a 30,000 fan stadium is a good idea!!!
Imagine that if the stadium plans go through, Birmingham City will have a bigger stadium than juve! (31k)
This IN NO WAY SOUNDS RIGHT!! NO MATTER WHAT THE FINANCIAL SITUATION IS LIKE NOW!!
No disrespect but your stats means nothing for real. Damn, the time where "the more capability got a stadium, the more it's a great stadium" is over! Juve is thinking to make it a theater and to fight violence and you are arguing about the number of fans? If a stadium is made well, even 5,000 fans can make an atmosphere you cant even dream in Delle Alpi right now. Just come to Brindisi, when i'm there. We plays in C2 (favourite to go to C1, after we bought Francioso from Genoa), and we got 5,000 fans a game. I use to see Juve in Turin, and Brindisi in Brindisi, when i'm there. Brindisi's atmosphere is 30 times better than the one in Delle Alpi. So numbers doesnt really means nothing to me. If 30,000 is the magic number for Juve, they'll explain the reasons.
PLEASE LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT NUMBERS NO MORE!
Let's talk about the project, the crisis, the ideas, the violence. Damn! JUST FORGET THE 30,000, K? IT AINT EVEN OFFICIAL! (THE NUMBER), BUT AN ANTICIPATION OF GIRAUDO. That's only what Juve is thinking right now!
PLEASE LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT NUMBERS NO MORE!
Let's talk about the project, the crisis, the ideas, the violence. Damn! JUST FORGET THE 30,000, K? IT AINT EVEN OFFICIAL! (THE NUMBER), BUT AN ANTICIPATION OF GIRAUDO. That's only what Juve is thinking right now!
The debate about how big the stadium should be is kinda funny actually. The latest suggested number 30,000. To draw a little comparison (not necessarily relevant ), they have a number of large stadium in Buenos Aires, each club its own.
Turin population 910,00 (unofficial source)
Stadio Delle Alpi - 30,000 - Juventus
Communale - 40,000? - Torino
Total : 70,000
Buenos Airos population 2,965,000 (unofficial source, 1991)
Florencio Sola - 34,000 - Banfield
Bombonera - 60,000 - Boca Juniors
Jorge Luis Hirsch - 28,000 - Estudiantes de La Plata
Juan Carlos Zerillo - 20,000 - Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata
Tomás Adolfo Ducó - 48,000 - Huracan
Independiente - 58,000 - Independiente
Lanús - 44,000 - Lanús
Nueva Chicago - 28,500 - Nueva Chicago
Presidente Perón - 64,000 - Racing Club
Antonio Vespucio Liberti - 77,000 - River Plate
Pedro Bidegain - 40,000 - San Lorenzo
José Amalfitani - 50,000 - Velez Sarsfield
Total : 551,500
Those are the clubs currently in the top division, all stadiums 20,000 and up.
So a quick look at the numbers and I get in a laughing mood over that 30,000 Take into consideration I have no knowledge of average attendences, security, overall interest or anything like that. But it does seem ridiculous the proposition that one of the top 3 teams in the soccer history of the world is unable to draw more than 30,000 people max when the city of Buenos Airos has an upper limit of about 500,000 :LOL:
Anyway, just pointless statistics really, doesn't prove anything though it does makes you wonder..
), they have a number of large stadium in Buenos Aires, each club its own.Turin population 910,00 (unofficial source)
Stadio Delle Alpi - 30,000 - Juventus
Communale - 40,000? - Torino
Total : 70,000
Buenos Airos population 2,965,000 (unofficial source, 1991)
Florencio Sola - 34,000 - Banfield
Bombonera - 60,000 - Boca Juniors
Jorge Luis Hirsch - 28,000 - Estudiantes de La Plata
Juan Carlos Zerillo - 20,000 - Gimnasia y Esgrima La Plata
Tomás Adolfo Ducó - 48,000 - Huracan
Independiente - 58,000 - Independiente
Lanús - 44,000 - Lanús
Nueva Chicago - 28,500 - Nueva Chicago
Presidente Perón - 64,000 - Racing Club
Antonio Vespucio Liberti - 77,000 - River Plate
Pedro Bidegain - 40,000 - San Lorenzo
José Amalfitani - 50,000 - Velez Sarsfield
Total : 551,500
Those are the clubs currently in the top division, all stadiums 20,000 and up.
So a quick look at the numbers and I get in a laughing mood over that 30,000
Take into consideration I have no knowledge of average attendences, security, overall interest or anything like that. But it does seem ridiculous the proposition that one of the top 3 teams in the soccer history of the world is unable to draw more than 30,000 people max when the city of Buenos Airos has an upper limit of about 500,000 :LOL:Anyway, just pointless statistics really, doesn't prove anything though it does makes you wonder..
