South Sudan (3 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

You didn't answer my question.

Certain agencies have killed too many people in extrajudicial killings via drones in Pakistan. 5000? I'm not so sure. But I don't trust Pakistan nor our government to tell us the truth.

 

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[Enron]

In Somalia and Lebanon you failed to achieve the objectives while killing many innocent people. While in Pakistan, the airstrikes have proofed nothing in the fight against terrorism and in one report I read, the Pakistani army claims more than 5,000 civilians died from those airstrikes since they started two years ago.

That's a lot don't you think?

And we all know Vietnam and how many civilians and their infrastructure was hit during that ugly war that the U.S also rapped up with a devastating loss.

To be honest there was a heavy Pakistani (via UN) presence in Somalia. The US had 20,000 marines in Somalia and then the UN asked for their removal in favor of US backed UN peacekeepers. Unfortunately, there were communication issues and blackhawks were shot down... and today Somalia is best know for Warlords and pirates. Not really our fault.

Vietnam and Iraq are two valid examples. Though you can't make the argument for Laos and Cambodia.

Pakistan is a different story. The numbers of civilian casualties are debatable. It seems to me the country would be volatile without us.

 

[JBF]

You didn't answer my question.

Certain agencies have killed too many people in extrajudicial killings via drones in Pakistan. 5000? I'm not so sure. But I don't trust Pakistan nor our government to tell us the truth.

Fair enough. But to answer your question, besides Iraq and Vietnam, no I don't think the U.S killed more than saved although the others did turn out to be very deadly on civilians who's lives could have been spared.

 

[Enron]

Fair enough. But to answer your question, besides Iraq and Vietnam, no I don't think the U.S killed more than saved although the others did turn out to be very deadly on civilians who's lives could have been spared.

I don't think this is our (the US) doing but Vietnam has turned out alright after our involvement.

 

[JBF]

To be honest there was a heavy Pakistani presence in Somalia. The US has 20,000 marines in Somalia and then the UN asked for their removal in favor of US backed UN peacekeepers. Unfortunately, there were communication issues and blackhawks were shot down... and today Somalia is best know for Warlords and pirates. Not really our fault.

Vietnam and Iraq are two valid examples. Though you can't make the argument for Laos and Cambodia.

Pakistan is a different story. The numbers of civilian casualties are debatable. It seems to me the country would be volatile without us.

You're the one thing that's keeping the government there from falling appart that's for sure but the country already is divided and certainly isn't 1/4 the pre-anti-terrorism-war Pakistan.

 

[JBF]

I don't think this is our (the US) doing but Vietnam has turned out alright after our involvement.

You mean after your withdrawal?

But yeah, you're right. Vietnam turned out to be a very successful country despite all the shit they've gone through but to return that to the American invasion isn't fair at all.

 

[Enron]

You mean after your withdrawal?

But yeah, you're right. Vietnam turned out to be a very successful country despite all the shit they've gone through but to return that to the American invasion isn't fair at all.

See after we mess up your world, everything gets better. Ask Europe.


I'm kidding.

 

[JBF]

 

[Zé Tahir]

Actually it will be independent just because it has oil. If it has no oil, no International community would interfere to help them.

Amen.

I'm staying with a Sudanese friend and his family right now actually. He tells me there's been a civil war pretty much since their independence, some 56 years ago or so, so all this involvement from the international community just now is conveniently coinciding with the discovery of oil in the country. Divide & Conquer bitches.

 

[Enron]

Amen.

I'm staying with a Sudanese friend and his family right now actually. He tells me there's been a civil war pretty much since their independence, some 56 years ago or so, so all this involvement from the international community just now is conveniently coinciding with the discovery of oil in the country. Divide & Conquer bitches.

They've had two. Both lasting almost 20 years a piece.

And then there's the whole Darfur thing, which is separate.

But yeah, the big issue is oil. Without it no one would care until millions of one side were dead.

 

[Enron]

Anywho, to bring some information to why they had the vote and what it means...

For those who don't know.

This is from the peace agreement signed in 2005...


- The south will have autonomy for six years, followed by a referendum on independence (the Southern Sudanese independence referendum, 2011).

- Both sides of the conflict will merge portions their armed forces into a 39,000-strong force after six years (the Joint Integrated Units), if the secession referendum should turn out negative.

- Furthermore, oil revenues will be divided equally between the government and rebels during the six-year interim period.

- Jobs are to be split according to varying ratios (central administration: 70 to 30, Abyei/Blue Nile State/Nuba Mountains: 55 to 45, both in favour of the government).

- Islamic law is to remain in the north, while continued use of the sharia in the south is to be decided by the elected assembly.

Since the south voted to remain autonomous, the question is what happens next?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Who cares?

 

[Hist]

where the hell were you ?

 

[JBF]

Studying, and lot's of it. Had one tough semester in college.

 

[Enron]

Who cares?

What's your problem Tahir?

 

[Fred]

Indeed. Now if only we started to abuse women and learned the art of stoning, then we could be as great as you guys! :thumbs:

Where did I say that Arab countries were great? If you ever pay attention to what i say about Arab countries, you'd know that most of what i say about our countries and the regimes that rule us are negative things.

And if we didn't do anything, the same crew would be whining about the heartless US and its people.

Isolationism is the way to go. Let the world burn. Have fun groveling to China.

Bullshit. Nobody would complain if you stopped interfering, it would be best for all parties. We haven't seen anything positive out of US interference in this region.

All sorts of people.



Certainly an idiotic act ordered by a bunch of criminals, but clearly nowhere near as common as stoning in Muslim lands.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. In fact i'd argue to the contrary.