Should Ranieri stay or go? (33 Viewers)

[denco]

Like Cronios, i am led to defend Ranieri even if I am not a fan of the guy but he has done well as far as I can see.

He does not have the materials because of circumstances beyond his control but he still 3rd in the league.

Could he have done better? Perhaps, but then again he could have done worse with this squad he has.

Is the quality of the squad is fault? Perhaps but we dont know for sure just speculating.

This season he has played against Milan away, Roma away, Fiorentina, away, Lazio away and Inter at home and he has not lost any of those games. 4 of those teams came 1-4th last season and Fiorentina were the best of those outside the top 4

He has played the best team in Italy in Inter twice and not lost regardless of who they picked and regardless of playing against 10 men as sometimes its harder to play against 10 men.

Lets compare this to Lippi's last year as manager here

He lost at home to Inter 3-1, Milan 3-1, Lecce 4-2, Roma gave us a hiding 4-0 in Rome, Lazio were beating us home and away in league and cup and he had a better squad than what Ranieri is dealing with, well at least imo.

Lippi had an aging Ferrara, aging montero, Thuram, Birindelli, Pessoto Leggrotaglie and Iuliano

Ranieri has aging Birindelli, Leggrotaglie, Molinaro, Chiellini, Andrade etc

Out of those 2 who had the better choice? Under Lippi we were condceding left right and centre that even Buffon was losing confidence.

He has worse defenders but we are not conceding as much.

As far as putting players out of position what choice does he have? There is no way Palladino can be played as a forward unless he wants to play 5 minutes here and there because Dp and Trez with Iaquinta can play there.

He has a problem on the right midfield because noone can play there because Camoranesi apart noone can play there adequately so he has tried to put someone that is supposedly skilful there in palladino but he has proved not up to scratch in that position.

The talk about Almiron and Tiago is a non starter, they have been flops so lets move away from that already

We dont have a Deschamps or a Davids to accommodate players that cannot work hard and they are not creative enough to justify any sort of inculsion.

Good luck if they have moved or going to move but if you are given a chance to shine, grab that chance with both hands but like Darren Bent at Spurs they have failed miserably.

Nocerino may have dropped in quality but he has not dropped in energy and its important for a side with our defenders that you have workers in the side.

Lastly there is not a chance that Chiellini is better going forward than Molinaro in my view, i always used to despair at Chiellini as a left back cos he was worse in crossing the ball than Molinaro and he should be left at centre back

I really dont understand this we have legrottaglie that Lippi in his infinite wisdom decided to play as a holding midfielder against Deportivo at home, playing in defence for ranieri, Boumsong on his books brought in my Deschamps for 5m, Grygera that is just very ordinary, whole lot of defenders missing with injuries and we are still 3rd and there are loads of complaints.

The most successful side in England have not won the title in 18 years and have multi cup winner in Rafa and its still not making a difference.

Ranieri was not brought in to win the scudetto cos that would be stupid but he has done a heck of a job so far.

Some people are just arguing for the sake of it, talking about stupid tactics being employed by Ranieri like its a new thing.

Capello lived by it, putting players out of position and noone relies more than individual brilliance than capello whilst Lippi played iaquinta as a right winger in the world cup and did a lot of strange things at Juventus as well but he had fantastic players to work with that Ranieri does not have so i think the judgement on him is way too harsh

 

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[Azzurri7]

Save the speech denco. I agree with everything you said. I'm not a fan of Ranieri aswell, but it's just too harsh and lot of people are indeed arguin for the sake of it and nothing more.

 

[Morra10]

Even thou you are an idiot, but I will give you another chance to understand!

Let's start from defense.

1- Chiellini playing out of his position, he is not doing bad, but this is weakening the left back position, Chiellini is not going further anymore with his great dribbling and crossing, instead we are playing with Molinaro, who can't pass or cross but he keeps doing that and loses us balls.

2- He is playing Palladino at right midfield, where he is naturally plays at left or as a forward, and we saw how he is performing, and everyone wants him out already.

3- He is playing Marchionni as a forward, with all the forwards we have, and we saw how he fucked it up!

4- Playing Salihamidzic as a center midfielder, where he never played there before, again fucked it up!

He has two center midifielders at his bench but he puts Brazzo in, while he could put Almiron in, the guy at least has a little more creativity in him than Brazzo, at least he can pass the ball forward! At the time where we lacked all the creativity, he takes Del Piero out where he was the only creative player left along with Nedved, and put Iaquinta in, and cuts the connection of the midfield with the attack, and we end up with 1 point against a weak side of Sampdoria (that misses it's both top players, Montella and Cassano).

When your team is down 2-0 against a reserve team that plays with 10 players almost the whole match, you don't add another defender and take out a midfielder. But why we didn't lose? Because Del Piero took the fucking ball out of nowhere and scored a brilliant goal that no one imagined he would even shoot, you see why we won? Because of Del Piero's experience, the man is on fire, can you imagine what else he could do if we had creative players behind him, where they could pass with him and receive good balls, instead of going back to midfield and take his own ball to create his own game and score. But no, Ranieri see everything fine, and he wants to add Sissoko to the squad, who need a fucking creativity, if Del Piero wants to score, then he should move his ass backward take the ball and score! This is what Ranieri wants, he just wants to not take a lose, he doesn't desire a win, that's why he is no winner!

What does this have to do with you contradicting yourself? If you're going to quote me why don't you reply with an answer, not 5 paragraphs of shit I wasn't even talking about.

DP is playing his best football in some time now and yet you said raneri was holding our players back from playing their best. How does that work smart guy? I'm starting to think you didn't even watch the juve-inter match. DP didn't take the ball out of nowhere, trez laid off a beautiful pass and all del had to do was volley it in. Dude, saying no one imagined DP to shoot from 8 feet away with no defender on him is retarded. Trez made that play, DP finished it off. Watch some more highlights.

1- I like most juve fans thought playing chiellni out of position when andrade was injured was a great move. Him and legro are one of the best pairings in serie a. Why not just buy another LB instead of moving chiellni out of the position he was made to play in? But its raneri's fault we sold balza and got molinaro, right?

2- Didi even played palladino on the wing. Granted raneri has tried it more times but he's not the only "idiot" that has tried it. Palladino isn't really a great player so i don't see how raneri isn't allowing him to play to his potential.

3- Marchionni is a winger, where else do you expect him to play? Did you even see him at parma? If marchionni doesn't perform its his own fault, not raneri's.

 

[Bjerknes]

People are forgetting here that this season in Serie A has been incredibly poor, with a Milan side playing as if they were Empoli. La Viola has slipped up a few times this season as well. Just imagine if these sides were actually playing to their full potential. If they were, we would probably be out of a Champions League spot. Then people would be up in arms.

It will be interesting to see what people think of this topic in about 5 months.

 

[Triptonite]

Nice thorough post Denco,

Comparasion with the past teams and games is not "true" fact. But it is nice to argue with you, since you don't insult other people opinions.

The game is different now, more or less. It is like trying to compare Pele to Maradona, or in NBA Chemberlen or Michael Jordan. Each of them were great at their own time.

We were not expecting to fight for the Scudetto this year. Yes it is true that maybe the good result gave us exaggerate hopes. Maybe that is a "problem" too for CR.

All the coaches of Juventus had critics, that is so true. That is Juventus, always hungry for win, and used to winning which is a big difference

Yes we don't have a players that are at level Juventus used to have, and we all know it.

But I will have to disagree that Almiron and Tiago were flops. Maybe we don't have enough "insight" of what is going on during the trainings/practices and what is the character of the players and how the are settled or not (whatever that means, only coach knows). But we have seen Tiago play, he did some (for me) extraordinary assists. So he was not a total flop. He had some mistakes, but the whole team had and yet, he was not given any chance. He could not make anymore damage. For Almiron, I can't say, but we could feel the energy he had during the summer games, in which we also noticed Nocerino potential. For me it was logically to try and get something out of those two.
As we all see, lots of players were given "displacements" to try and find their form. These two did not get any chance. But for now we don't have the real reasons

Anyway... we are not the team we used to be, we need to re-build it. Do you notice any building going on? Do you notice improvement of the game? Do you have a "feeling" that the team is leaded by the Manager. Personally I have no such evidence. (or I am watching with my non-pink eyeglasses)

As the players who does not perform to managers expectations, are sent away (if not given any chances), we have the right to be the "voice" of the management to decide whether he is performing or under performing. And this coach has not performed in the past and we ARE "scared" that he will not again. He did ruind Chelsea in the Champions League against Monaco in the semi-final.

And changing coach at this point will not do any harm to stability, teamwork, getting to know with players etc (what others mentioned), since all of the players are professionals and getting to know better and better. The only problem is who can replace him, how much will it cost...etc etc which is management role. The club managed to change DD after returning us to Serie A, so this will be piece of cake

We are just helping the evaluation process The decision will not be ours (as always).

 

[Bjerknes]

Capello lived by it, putting players out of position and noone relies more than individual brilliance than capello whilst Lippi played iaquinta as a right winger in the world cup and did a lot of strange things at Juventus as well but he had fantastic players to work with that Ranieri does not have so i think the judgement on him is way too harsh

I don't. And Ranieri is living totally upon individual brilliance because that's the only way we keep winning or drawing games... through the performances of a couple elite individuals.

 

[sateeh]

Like Cronios, i am led to defend Ranieri even if I am not a fan of the guy but he has done well as far as I can see.

He does not have the materials because of circumstances beyond his control but he still 3rd in the league.

Could he have done better? Perhaps, but then again he could have done worse with this squad he has.

Is the quality of the squad is fault? Perhaps but we dont know for sure just speculating.

This season he has played against Milan away, Roma away, Fiorentina, away, Lazio away and Inter at home and he has not lost any of those games. 4 of those teams came 1-4th last season and Fiorentina were the best of those outside the top 4

He has played the best team in Italy in Inter twice and not lost regardless of who they picked and regardless of playing against 10 men as sometimes its harder to play against 10 men.

Lets compare this to Lippi's last year as manager here

He lost at home to Inter 3-1, Milan 3-1, Lecce 4-2, Roma gave us a hiding 4-0 in Rome, Lazio were beating us home and away in league and cup and he had a better squad than what Ranieri is dealing with, well at least imo.

Lippi had an aging Ferrara, aging montero, Thuram, Birindelli, Pessoto Leggrotaglie and Iuliano

Ranieri has aging Birindelli, Leggrotaglie, Molinaro, Chiellini, Andrade etc

Out of those 2 who had the better choice? Under Lippi we were condceding left right and centre that even Buffon was losing confidence.

He has worse defenders but we are not conceding as much.

As far as putting players out of position what choice does he have? There is no way Palladino can be played as a forward unless he wants to play 5 minutes here and there because Dp and Trez with Iaquinta can play there.

He has a problem on the right midfield because noone can play there because Camoranesi apart noone can play there adequately so he has tried to put someone that is supposedly skilful there in palladino but he has proved not up to scratch in that position.

The talk about Almiron and Tiago is a non starter, they have been flops so lets move away from that already

We dont have a Deschamps or a Davids to accommodate players that cannot work hard and they are not creative enough to justify any sort of inculsion.

Good luck if they have moved or going to move but if you are given a chance to shine, grab that chance with both hands but like Darren Bent at Spurs they have failed miserably.

Nocerino may have dropped in quality but he has not dropped in energy and its important for a side with our defenders that you have workers in the side.

Lastly there is not a chance that Chiellini is better going forward than Molinaro in my view, i always used to despair at Chiellini as a left back cos he was worse in crossing the ball than Molinaro and he should be left at centre back

I really dont understand this we have legrottaglie that Lippi in his infinite wisdom decided to play as a holding midfielder against Deportivo at home, playing in defence for ranieri, Boumsong on his books brought in my Deschamps for 5m, Grygera that is just very ordinary, whole lot of defenders missing with injuries and we are still 3rd and there are loads of complaints.

The most successful side in England have not won the title in 18 years and have multi cup winner in Rafa and its still not making a difference.

Ranieri was not brought in to win the scudetto cos that would be stupid but he has done a heck of a job so far.

Some people are just arguing for the sake of it, talking about stupid tactics being employed by Ranieri like its a new thing.

Capello lived by it, putting players out of position and noone relies more than individual brilliance than capello whilst Lippi played iaquinta as a right winger in the world cup and did a lot of strange things at Juventus as well but he had fantastic players to work with that Ranieri does not have so i think the judgement on him is way too harsh

completely agreed. Same goes to Cronios.

People forget that we got some pretty good results in the first half of the season considering the limited options he had.

I must admit sometimes he frustrates me and we could've got a couple of points extra here and there. However if you want to go down that road, then we could've got a couple points extra if some decisions went our way or maybe if legro didn't decide to flash his hand against the viola etc...

another point i want to add is that just like last season the most important thing is the result. This is a new team, we will never have the compatibility that other teams have but we are still beating them. Its essential to keep focus on the goal which is simply making the CL next season.

 

[Stephan]

i think some are going a bit too far with ranieri criticism.

Like "if milan would be in form and lazio in form we wouldnt be in top 4" etc etc.

Honestly, would mourinho make boumsong play better in defense?

I honestly aint fan of ranieri and i think we shouldnt keep him long-term, but you cant forget the injury problems we have had and the lack of creative players.

This season is all about results and hopefully getting to top 4.

Its the creative part what has been cursed.
Camo too often injured
Marchionni injured and not delivering
Nedved too old.


The real question is the relation between ranieri and secco. Who really picks the players for juve? We lack creativity and Vaart wants to join but we arent interested.

 

[Thunderball]

Honestly, there's better coaches than Ranieri... but none of them wanted to be here.

Why is that?

Well, lets stop putting lipstick on a pig here... this team is not very good aside from its stars that stuck around and a couple rising stars. The best youth are on loan, and many of the stars are injured and/or are injury prone. Yet the expectations people have is that this team as is should be pounding Inter and atop the standings.

Look at Juventus' roster, and look at Roma, Inter and AC. Buffon and the forwards are the only ones that stack up. Juve's defense... healthy... still doesn't stack up to those three. The central midfield is a joke, with Zanetti luckily playing elite. Nocerino is not ready for primetime, and Tiago is a flop. Almiron too. Is Sissoko an overpriced joke? Yeah. But, Ranieri did good things with him in Valencia.

How can anyone expect better from this team. We all said that Juve as it stood coming out of B had little chance to be Top 4. That's essentially the team we have though.

However, if Ranieri has anything to do with the abhorrent transfer policy, then this season should be his last on that alone.

 

[Max]

Honestly, there's better coaches than Ranieri... but none of them wanted to be here.

Why is that?

Well, lets stop putting lipstick on a pig here... this team is not very good aside from its stars that stuck around and a couple rising stars. The best youth are on loan, and many of the stars are injured and/or are injury prone. Yet the expectations people have is that this team as is should be pounding Inter and atop the standings.

Look at Juventus' roster, and look at Roma, Inter and AC. Buffon and the forwards are the only ones that stack up. Juve's defense... healthy... still doesn't stack up to those three. The central midfield is a joke, with Zanetti luckily playing elite. Nocerino is not ready for primetime, and Tiago is a flop. Almiron too. Is Sissoko an overpriced joke? Yeah. But, Ranieri did good things with him in Valencia.

How can anyone expect better from this team. We all said that Juve as it stood coming out of B had little chance to be Top 4. That's essentially the team we have though.

However, if Ranieri has anything to do with the abhorrent transfer policy, then this season should be his last on that alone.

I don't even think that's legal in West Virginia. We should ask Burke...

 

[Thunderball]

I don't even think that's legal in West Virginia. We should ask Burke...

LOL... horrible! But thats essentially what we're doing... trying to pretty up something that's quite ugly right now.

 

[sidd]

I see many people over here being very critical of Ranieri`s methods, but i think he`s done OK with the limited resources he`s had at is disposal, he`s rarely had a fully fit squad to choose from and the bench strength seems to be lacking the quality that Juve needs.

Many people over here are against the imminent signing of Sissoko, but who knows he might be just what we need, I dont quite think Nocerino is playing to his potential quite yet, and i`m pretty sure the need for some one like sissoko is to sit in front and protect our disastrous defence. Even tho i`m into convinced with the signing, lets give it time and see how he plays for us.

I think the main reason we`re in such big shit right now is because of the board and the f#%^d up transfer policy. I mean the Boumsong incident is just pathetic, Before we loaned out Crisito we shud`ve had a target in mind to cover for him , given that we were gonna look at selling boum as well, and with zebina and andrade out!

I`m sorry thats just highly illogical, More than a Should ranieri stay or go thread? i think we need a " lets get together and assasinate secco thread"

 

[David01]

there probably are better coaches around but who would start now right after the winter break? Mourinho? I don't think so

 

[Vinman]

we'll see what the ppl defeding RUINeri have to say in May, when we are out of the CL race

if nobody else see's this coming....





and I do blame our feeble management as well

 

[will luvs juve]

I think that we should keep raneri for a little whle longer. Look at manchester united, it took ferguson 4 years to win a major trophy. What im trying to say is that we need to give Raneri longer to build a solid future rather than getting a new manager every 4 moths. Anyway lets hope for getting decent results now and look ahead to keeping that 3rd place in the league. Anyway why are we complaning most of us at the beggining of the season said that are aim is champions league football and we r in the top four so why are we complaining.

 

[solo JUVE.....!]

there probably are better coaches around but who would start now right after the winter break? Mourinho? I don't think so

You're right...I agree with U...
I think Ranieri is'nt a great coach for Juve....And I prefer Deschamp....I really like Didier Deschamp's arrange...and I think he's better than Ranieri....
But now.... Juve have to buy a great coach like Mourinho....!!!

 

[Lion]

I don't. And Ranieri is living totally upon individual brilliance because that's the only way we keep winning or drawing games... through the performances of a couple elite individuals.

so when we win it's because of individual performances, but when we lose it's because of Ranieri?

yeah that makes alot of sense. If we won because of indivudal performances then let's sell Del Piero, Trez and Buffon. After all if we win because of them ,then we must lose because of them as well.

 

[Bjerknes]

so when we win it's because of individual performances, but when we lose it's because of Ranieri?

yeah that makes alot of sense. If we won because of indivudal performances then let's sell Del Piero, Trez and Buffon. After all if we win because of them ,then we must lose because of them as well.

Lion, how many matches have you seen this season? We never look like we have a plan, or any idea whatsoever as a TEAM on the pitch. Our passing is horrid, our crossing is pathetic, our team movement is stagnant, and all we ever do is play long balls up the pitch. In almost every match people complain about ridiculous substitions made or not made by Ranieri, a talking point when we want to discuss how many points we have lost because of ridiculous subs, just like Ale coming off against Samp. I mean, I could go on and on discussing the mistakes that probably cost us points.

Now, most of goals this season have been created by individual brilliance, mostly by Del Piero. He has saved our asses so many times it's incredible. Ranieri doesn't tell our captain where to play... he just tells him when. At this point, only a foolish manager would tell a player like Del Piero how to play his game as he's a legend for this club and knows what he's doing out there. Ale is on top form for his age and I highly doubt Ranieri can take credit for that fact. It's a fact we rely far too heavily on a three individuals and that's why we rely on individual brilliance to win, or even draw, matches. It's only a select few who are able to save our asses from horrid crosses from the wing and no service from central midfield. I think you can guess who they are.

 

[Bjerknes]

I think a decisive point in this forum discussion is the opinion of vSnoop. We've both been posters here for quite a while, and I don't recall one time when he has blasted a current manager for what he's done at the club. Throughout the Capello era and throughout last Fall, he's defended our managers and looked on the bright side. Perhaps he started to become harsh on Lippi when people were defending Marcelo against Capello, but that was more of a subjective discussion than this one. Snoop has come out to say that he's extremely displeased with Ranieri and has voted to have him fired. It's very, and I mean very, out of character for him. Therefore, something has to be wrong here.

 

[Snoop]

also don't forget the Fiorentina match! How his tactical brilliance cost us lose another two points, even thou the result was good. At this exact moment, the results are good, but you don't have to be a genius to see how he is losing the control, and this team is not playing as a team anymore.. Everyone is trying to do something unusual, but we still do have champions in our team that saving Ranieri's ass, let's see how long will this go on.

Why do I want Ranieri out at this time? Because If we will sign a new manager, he will have time to make his new team (System and tactics etc..) ready for next season. And trust me, making the CL position isn't that hard we imagine at the start of the season. Every team except that Inter suck! We are 12 points behind of them, and we are just January ffs! Roma is ahead of us, kiss goodbye the second spot. Milan is in pathetic form which is the reason they are behind all and that we are in 3rd position. But they will catch us and pass, so we will end up fighting with the rest for 4th position, even thou it is not impossible cause we definitely have better squad, we have world champions at least that we can rely on them. But! If Ranieri keeps on making these wrong subs, and play with these wrong attitude, we can even kiss goodbye the CL spot!

Surely we will not sign a new manager, since time is running and the transfer window will be closed, and no one would like to join later, so no new manager will join in these situations, even if Ranieri ends up with the CL spot, we will have to bear him for another season, and probably trophy less..