I actually don't like derbies, most of the time they're not good to watch or play in and anything can happen. But still, we won and that is the most important thing.
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Serie A: Torino Vs Juventus [September 30 2007] (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ramin
- Start date
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Overall our performance was poor, one of the worst I've seen this season. I didn't like the midfield which played in a 4-4-2 where Palladino was supposed to be Camo, which he is NOT. That doesn't mean he had a bad game, on the contrary, he was one of the most energetic players on the pitch and was trying the whole time. But he can't play there, he needs to be further upfront where he is most dangerous, he's just wasted in the midfield. With the players Ranieri had, he should have played a 4-3-3 with Palla and DP supporting Trez.
We were saved by a miracle but there's no need for joy, our performance was nothing short of awfull.
(I posted this in the Tinkerman thred) Back to Ranieri, I know we're short with players, have a lot of injuries, but the way he uses his subs, better yet doesn't use them, is wrong. I mean for the whole game we were unable to creat chances and he waited till the 70th minute to bring in Almiron. He should have done that at half time as we were visibly uncoordinatd in the midfield. To make things worse he got of Zanetti and left Nocerino who couldn't pass one ball properly the entire game. I seriously hope that was because Zanetti picked up a little knock or something. Then he goes and replaces a young Palladino, who was everywhere on the pitch and was trying the whole game, and leaves an exhausted DP on who didn't have a any better game than him.
To only use 2 substitutions in such a game, a derby, is wrong and I don't understand it. We were lucky to win this game but I was far from satisfied with the team and especially Ranieri.
Buffon, 6.5 - wasn't tested too much but was where he needed to be every time, as usual.
Grygera, 6.5 - again solid, didn't mess up anything but his support for the attack was again not there, he needs to push up further more, we need more crossing power from our backs.
Molinaro, 5.5 - wasn't catastrophic IMO but was pretty poor, his crosses don't go anywhere and he's just too nervous most of the time.
Legro, 6.5 - not bad but nothing to impressive.
Chiellini, 7 - best man in the defense, hands down. We really have DD to thank for trying him out in the center, it suits him well, his stature is perfect for it. Too bad, he's also great at LB. His position has became quite a dillema, a sweet dillema however.
Zanetti, 7 - The best man in our midfield, yet again. The guy is perfect, steals balls, holds them up when he has them, his passes are always correct and he doesn't get tired. If anyone is our midfield general this and last season, it's him. I don't understand why Ranieri took him of, it's possible he took a knock and I hope that's the case, because if it's not, Ranieri hasn't got a clue.
Nocerino, 6 - my second disapointment in the game. The guy is talented, very talented, but alongside Zanetti he is nothing IMO. Zanetti has everything Nocerino has plus proper passing which is a real problem for Nocerino IMO. I used to think it's just the crossing that's the problem but it's not, he just can't pass the ball. He's a destroyer, true, but he's also a midfielder and he must know how to pass the ball properly. Comparison's with Gatusso are laughable IMO, compaired to him Gatusso is Veron. Nocerino has a bright future ahead of him but he can't just rely on his strength and stamina. Gatusso was a terrible passer when he started out, true, but he has improved in every aspect of the game and I sincerely hope Nocerino does as well, but for now lets lay of the comparisons. I would prefer to start Tiago alongside Zanetti next game.
Nedved, 6 - my first disapointment in the game, had one great chance which is he sent over the goal, Nedved of the old wouldn't do that. I'm really afraid his time is nearing the end.. Vinman made a good observation, he's fouling too much just to keep up with the players. Made a terrible pass to Palladino on the counter-attack once where he also had Trez going in the middle. It was promising and Nedved didn't make the most of it.
Palladino, 6.5 - after Zanetti, the best man in our midfield, even though he was played out of position. He's energetic and tries the whole time, I like what I've seen from him, I just wish he was played further up front, preferably in a 4-3-3 formation.
DP, 6.5 - average game for the captain, was slow at times but conceded some good fouls which made for promising free kicks. Too bad those Torino fucks can't stand in place why they are formed in the wall, otherwise DP could have been more effective from the free kicks.
Trezeguet, 8 - MOM. He doesn't really deserve an 8 for his performance but he won us the game out of nothing and got us the three points. He was trying all the time and always pressuring the defenders, he's very motivated this year and I think it's all because of the one year purgatory in Serie B. 6 games, 7 goals, simply clinycal.
Almiron - too little time but the goal came after his header so his role was not useless.
Hasan, 6.4 - he was trying in what time he had, he used his energy well but didn't make anything concrete.
In conclusion, there's lot more bad than good to take out of this game, but the 3 points are here and that's what matters.
We were saved by a miracle but there's no need for joy, our performance was nothing short of awfull.
(I posted this in the Tinkerman thred) Back to Ranieri, I know we're short with players, have a lot of injuries, but the way he uses his subs, better yet doesn't use them, is wrong. I mean for the whole game we were unable to creat chances and he waited till the 70th minute to bring in Almiron. He should have done that at half time as we were visibly uncoordinatd in the midfield. To make things worse he got of Zanetti and left Nocerino who couldn't pass one ball properly the entire game. I seriously hope that was because Zanetti picked up a little knock or something. Then he goes and replaces a young Palladino, who was everywhere on the pitch and was trying the whole game, and leaves an exhausted DP on who didn't have a any better game than him.
To only use 2 substitutions in such a game, a derby, is wrong and I don't understand it. We were lucky to win this game but I was far from satisfied with the team and especially Ranieri.
Buffon, 6.5 - wasn't tested too much but was where he needed to be every time, as usual.
Grygera, 6.5 - again solid, didn't mess up anything but his support for the attack was again not there, he needs to push up further more, we need more crossing power from our backs.
Molinaro, 5.5 - wasn't catastrophic IMO but was pretty poor, his crosses don't go anywhere and he's just too nervous most of the time.
Legro, 6.5 - not bad but nothing to impressive.
Chiellini, 7 - best man in the defense, hands down. We really have DD to thank for trying him out in the center, it suits him well, his stature is perfect for it. Too bad, he's also great at LB. His position has became quite a dillema, a sweet dillema however.
Zanetti, 7 - The best man in our midfield, yet again. The guy is perfect, steals balls, holds them up when he has them, his passes are always correct and he doesn't get tired. If anyone is our midfield general this and last season, it's him. I don't understand why Ranieri took him of, it's possible he took a knock and I hope that's the case, because if it's not, Ranieri hasn't got a clue.
Nocerino, 6 - my second disapointment in the game. The guy is talented, very talented, but alongside Zanetti he is nothing IMO. Zanetti has everything Nocerino has plus proper passing which is a real problem for Nocerino IMO. I used to think it's just the crossing that's the problem but it's not, he just can't pass the ball. He's a destroyer, true, but he's also a midfielder and he must know how to pass the ball properly. Comparison's with Gatusso are laughable IMO, compaired to him Gatusso is Veron. Nocerino has a bright future ahead of him but he can't just rely on his strength and stamina. Gatusso was a terrible passer when he started out, true, but he has improved in every aspect of the game and I sincerely hope Nocerino does as well, but for now lets lay of the comparisons. I would prefer to start Tiago alongside Zanetti next game.
Nedved, 6 - my first disapointment in the game, had one great chance which is he sent over the goal, Nedved of the old wouldn't do that. I'm really afraid his time is nearing the end.. Vinman made a good observation, he's fouling too much just to keep up with the players. Made a terrible pass to Palladino on the counter-attack once where he also had Trez going in the middle. It was promising and Nedved didn't make the most of it.
Palladino, 6.5 - after Zanetti, the best man in our midfield, even though he was played out of position. He's energetic and tries the whole time, I like what I've seen from him, I just wish he was played further up front, preferably in a 4-3-3 formation.
DP, 6.5 - average game for the captain, was slow at times but conceded some good fouls which made for promising free kicks. Too bad those Torino fucks can't stand in place why they are formed in the wall, otherwise DP could have been more effective from the free kicks.
Trezeguet, 8 - MOM. He doesn't really deserve an 8 for his performance but he won us the game out of nothing and got us the three points. He was trying all the time and always pressuring the defenders, he's very motivated this year and I think it's all because of the one year purgatory in Serie B. 6 games, 7 goals, simply clinycal.
Almiron - too little time but the goal came after his header so his role was not useless.
Hasan, 6.4 - he was trying in what time he had, he used his energy well but didn't make anything concrete.
In conclusion, there's lot more bad than good to take out of this game, but the 3 points are here and that's what matters.
Player ratings.
Juventus: Buffon 6,33 - Grygera 5,83, Legrottaglie 6,50, Chiellini 6,50, Molinaro 5,67 - Palladino 6,00 (79' Salihamidzic), Nocerino 6,00, C. Zanetti 6,33 (69' Almirón 5,75), Nedved 5,50 - Trezeguet 7,00, Del Piero 6,17. - Tr: Ranieri 6,33.
Gazzetta dello Sport - Corriere della Sera - La Nazione
Juventus: Buffon 6,33 - Grygera 5,83, Legrottaglie 6,50, Chiellini 6,50, Molinaro 5,67 - Palladino 6,00 (79' Salihamidzic), Nocerino 6,00, C. Zanetti 6,33 (69' Almirón 5,75), Nedved 5,50 - Trezeguet 7,00, Del Piero 6,17. - Tr: Ranieri 6,33.
Gazzetta dello Sport - Corriere della Sera - La Nazione
iaquinta 11 million,almiron 9 million,andrade 10 million and our most expensive signing was tiago 13million
6th game into the serie a...our first derby in 4 yrs and not one of our top 4 signings of the summer was in the starting eleven
great job secco!!!!
bout the game im with vinman bout molinaro...he sux plain n simple!!!!cant hold onto a ball,cant cross and more importantly in the first half i thought torino were having a field trip down molinaro's flank
chiellini,legro n buffon were very solid
grygera had a decent game but he has to up his performance...god i miss zambrotta
my biggest disappointment this game was nedved...that last chance he missed wouldve been huge hadnt trez scored
nocerino is growing game by game and hes fixed himself into the starting eleven which pleases me cuz i like that ranieri sees what this kid can become capable off
zanetti again showed how underrated he is but i still think tiago should get the nod over him, he was our most expensive signing and hes only played a full game
palladinho had some great runs,great touches but needs to be placed in a more offensive position but what i really admired bout him was tracking back on several occasions to help the defence
upfront trez was awesome as usual
del piero played much better than the last few games but i still cant help but realize how many times he tries to take on defenders with his lack of pace...i hate to say this but hes starting to frustrate me..lets hope hes keepin his best for fiorentina
ranieri has put us in a great position so far but i think hes taken a wrong approach towards tiago which could make it harder for him to accomodate in our squad..taking out criscito for this game was a good idea but against fiorentina theres no way molinaro can start as players like mutu,semioli n gonzalez will tear him apart
but after todays results and the lazio-milan inter-napoli fixtures i hope we get 3 pts form florence...but it'll be a tough task but not impossible
all in all...i love the determination n gutts the team is showing but theyre taking to much time to gel properly and the acquisitions we got in the off season couldve been far better had we focused on one star midfielder instead of 2 bench warmers recently
6th game into the serie a...our first derby in 4 yrs and not one of our top 4 signings of the summer was in the starting eleven
great job secco!!!!
bout the game im with vinman bout molinaro...he sux plain n simple!!!!cant hold onto a ball,cant cross and more importantly in the first half i thought torino were having a field trip down molinaro's flank
chiellini,legro n buffon were very solid
grygera had a decent game but he has to up his performance...god i miss zambrotta
my biggest disappointment this game was nedved...that last chance he missed wouldve been huge hadnt trez scored
nocerino is growing game by game and hes fixed himself into the starting eleven which pleases me cuz i like that ranieri sees what this kid can become capable off
zanetti again showed how underrated he is but i still think tiago should get the nod over him, he was our most expensive signing and hes only played a full game
palladinho had some great runs,great touches but needs to be placed in a more offensive position but what i really admired bout him was tracking back on several occasions to help the defence
upfront trez was awesome as usual
del piero played much better than the last few games but i still cant help but realize how many times he tries to take on defenders with his lack of pace...i hate to say this but hes starting to frustrate me..lets hope hes keepin his best for fiorentina
ranieri has put us in a great position so far but i think hes taken a wrong approach towards tiago which could make it harder for him to accomodate in our squad..taking out criscito for this game was a good idea but against fiorentina theres no way molinaro can start as players like mutu,semioli n gonzalez will tear him apart
but after todays results and the lazio-milan inter-napoli fixtures i hope we get 3 pts form florence...but it'll be a tough task but not impossible
all in all...i love the determination n gutts the team is showing but theyre taking to much time to gel properly and the acquisitions we got in the off season couldve been far better had we focused on one star midfielder instead of 2 bench warmers recently
I did not see the game and that is why I make no comments about the game but I don't know how you can be very generous with your grades and so damning in your reports.
First you say, the game was the worst you have seen so how come the players have such hig marks?
You say Nedved was a disappointment and yet you give him a high 6, Nocerino 6 but you give them bad reports.
If Dp was average why is getting 6.5? If you were a teacher someone who gets 30% would be given a B grade
You are way to generous
To whom it may concern
Would it be a good idea to have 2 seperate threads for matches, 1 for match reports and grades and the other for posters making their remarks as to actually get to match reports, I had to trawl thru so many posts that I could have done without?
It is just a suggestion as some people are more interested in reading match reports and ratings while others enjoy the banter that goes on and the 2 sometimes don't mix well
First you say, the game was the worst you have seen so how come the players have such hig marks?
You say Nedved was a disappointment and yet you give him a high 6, Nocerino 6 but you give them bad reports.
If Dp was average why is getting 6.5? If you were a teacher someone who gets 30% would be given a B grade
You are way to generous
To whom it may concern
Would it be a good idea to have 2 seperate threads for matches, 1 for match reports and grades and the other for posters making their remarks as to actually get to match reports, I had to trawl thru so many posts that I could have done without?
It is just a suggestion as some people are more interested in reading match reports and ratings while others enjoy the banter that goes on and the 2 sometimes don't mix well
I'm not a professional analyser or anything, so don't look at my grades and compair them with Gazzetta's where the grades are in decimals and the average grade is 5. Say my grades are from 1-12 instead of the usual 1-10. If I gave someone a 7 it's not the same as when a paper gives a 7, which would indicate a player had a fantastic match, it's mainly to distinct our player's performances more easily and to avoid using odd decimals like 5.83 or 6.14.
Cairo slams Trez goal
Torino President Urbano Cairo has joined Coach Walter Novellino in criticising the decision to allow David Trezeguet’s winner in the Derby della Mole.
After a four-year hiatus, Turin’s city rivals locked horns at the Stadio Olimpico in a tight and tense affair.
Just as the game looked set to finish in a stalemate, Trezeguet delivered a sucker punch to the Granata with a 93rd minute strike.
However, replays suggest that the French marksman may have been in an offside position and the Toro camp have reacted with fury.
After Novellino’s fierce attack on the refereeing team last night, Cairo has added his angry views on the controversial goal.
“Once again we were hurt by a refereeing mistake,” he roared. “It’s the third game in a row that it has happened.
“Against Siena they were awarded two penalties and then on Wednesday we had a clear shout turned down when Cesare Natali was brought down. We are getting used to it.
“I gave the team the congratulations they deserved for the way they played. We left the pitch with our heads held high, despite the bad luck.
“We looked most likely to win and Matteo Sereni was barely tested.”
channel 4
Torino President Urbano Cairo has joined Coach Walter Novellino in criticising the decision to allow David Trezeguet’s winner in the Derby della Mole.
After a four-year hiatus, Turin’s city rivals locked horns at the Stadio Olimpico in a tight and tense affair.
Just as the game looked set to finish in a stalemate, Trezeguet delivered a sucker punch to the Granata with a 93rd minute strike.
However, replays suggest that the French marksman may have been in an offside position and the Toro camp have reacted with fury.
After Novellino’s fierce attack on the refereeing team last night, Cairo has added his angry views on the controversial goal.
“Once again we were hurt by a refereeing mistake,” he roared. “It’s the third game in a row that it has happened.
“Against Siena they were awarded two penalties and then on Wednesday we had a clear shout turned down when Cesare Natali was brought down. We are getting used to it.
“I gave the team the congratulations they deserved for the way they played. We left the pitch with our heads held high, despite the bad luck.
“We looked most likely to win and Matteo Sereni was barely tested.”
channel 4
Okay so you were giving them marks out of 12?
I don't take any note of gazetta's gradings because saying someone is 5.83 is just madness or 7.13
But I also saw that you gave Salihimidic 6.4 out of 12, what was that about or were you just messing?
I don't take any note of gazetta's gradings because saying someone is 5.83 is just madness or 7.13
But I also saw that you gave Salihimidic 6.4 out of 12, what was that about or were you just messing?
As a matter of fact, yeah, I gave Hasan a 6.4 as a joke, I didn't wanna give him a 6.5, the same as Buffon, Grygera.
Guyz !! I just cant understand how can some of the posters here say that we had a good game, we deserved to win, DP was okay, did you watch the game or you're just commenting on a 1-0 victory
We were HORRIBLE, we didnt control the game, we kept playing stupid long balls
Also DP and Nedved were extremely bad, they humiliate themselves by this performance as they harm the team for sure, DP tortured us with his slowness and his instance on dribbling
Trez didnt do anything except the miracle that gave us the 3 points, thanks a million for saving us but where were you the other 90 mins
Ranieri's choices weren't the right ones, whether the starting formation or the substitutions
Finally , DP should be benched, at least for now, I cant believe that but I missed Iaquinta yesterday
We were HORRIBLE, we didnt control the game, we kept playing stupid long balls
Also DP and Nedved were extremely bad, they humiliate themselves by this performance as they harm the team for sure, DP tortured us with his slowness and his instance on dribbling
Trez didnt do anything except the miracle that gave us the 3 points, thanks a million for saving us but where were you the other 90 mins
Ranieri's choices weren't the right ones, whether the starting formation or the substitutions
Finally , DP should be benched, at least for now, I cant believe that but I missed Iaquinta yesterday
We are collecting all the match analysis that the members write and post them on the main site. I haven't done that yet for this match but we have been doing it for every match.
Than Atropos, another moderator, has started by creating a thread where he collects the match reports but it seems he has abandoned his project. I'll see what I can do.
Than Atropos, another moderator, has started by creating a thread where he collects the match reports but it seems he has abandoned his project. I'll see what I can do.
Well i agree on most parts but i dont think that considering all circustances we played that badly. Thats just the derby games especially when you're playing against a weaker team.Credit to Torino who worked so hard, that our players didn't have an inch of space and all the chances we had were always from individual pro activeness and skills.
Also since Ranieri opted for the two DMs didn't help but i see why he opted for that as it was a new defense and needed the cover.
I agree with you and vlatko about neddy.You could see it since the beginning of the season that hes falling away from the pace. I think the only solution would be to put in the middle instead of wide, if hes going to play.
about Ranieri, i didn't like the substitutions as i thought they were supposed to be a bit before.Neddy shouldn't have stayed there as he just didn't have the energy.
@vlatko, nocerino is improving and i think with time he will only get better. But i agree that we should start putting either tiago or almiron there because we need to string the passes better.
Anyway UP YOURS GRANTA !
Also since Ranieri opted for the two DMs didn't help but i see why he opted for that as it was a new defense and needed the cover.
I agree with you and vlatko about neddy.You could see it since the beginning of the season that hes falling away from the pace. I think the only solution would be to put in the middle instead of wide, if hes going to play.
about Ranieri, i didn't like the substitutions as i thought they were supposed to be a bit before.Neddy shouldn't have stayed there as he just didn't have the energy.
@vlatko, nocerino is improving and i think with time he will only get better. But i agree that we should start putting either tiago or almiron there because we need to string the passes better.
Anyway UP YOURS GRANTA !
DP did some very good things, he is getting better. He still isn't in his best shape, but the only thing that rests for him is getting al lot of matches !
I only see him made 1 bad descission in the whole match & I know cause I observed him very close with pen and paper. It was from a counter that he runs to long with the ball & then played it 2 Palladino instead of Trez.
Trezeguet outside his goal did nothing, but he is only there for in the 16m area and not for making the game...
Nedved was a big dissapointment, he just dont fit in a 4-3-3, better put Brazzo in his place!
If u say dp should stay on the bench I would say yes after the match against Roma, but if u don't see that he has done some good stuff yesterday (with all respect), u don't know the term 'football' ...
I only see him made 1 bad descission in the whole match & I know cause I observed him very close with pen and paper. It was from a counter that he runs to long with the ball & then played it 2 Palladino instead of Trez.
Trezeguet outside his goal did nothing, but he is only there for in the 16m area and not for making the game...
Nedved was a big dissapointment, he just dont fit in a 4-3-3, better put Brazzo in his place!
If u say dp should stay on the bench I would say yes after the match against Roma, but if u don't see that he has done some good stuff yesterday (with all respect), u don't know the term 'football' ...
I watched the delayed game yesterday and here are my thoughts
Firstly, Chiellini was excellent at CB. I really doubt we would have kept a clean sheet with Criscito at CB in such a game. Despite Molinaro sucking for most of the night, I feel there is less risk associated with playing him at LB and giving him games to find his feet than there is of putting Criscito at CB and giving him games to find his feet. That said, Criscito can be given at trail at LB to c if he can b better than Molinaro
As strange as it is, Legro (bar the penalty he gave away against Calgiari) has put in some decent performances at the back imo
Palla played very well..that nutmeg by the touch line on Rubin (I think) summed up his performance. He was however too wide and we thus created very little in front of goal. I dont think Sereni was tested all night
One of Almiron or Tiago really needs to start our games to improve our distribution going forward especially if Nedved plays the way he did yesterday
Lastly, I still dont understand ehy Ranieri has such a fixation on Nocerino - I know hes a good fighter and all but his ball passing skills are really poor compared to all our other midfilders.
Firstly, Chiellini was excellent at CB. I really doubt we would have kept a clean sheet with Criscito at CB in such a game. Despite Molinaro sucking for most of the night, I feel there is less risk associated with playing him at LB and giving him games to find his feet than there is of putting Criscito at CB and giving him games to find his feet. That said, Criscito can be given at trail at LB to c if he can b better than Molinaro
As strange as it is, Legro (bar the penalty he gave away against Calgiari) has put in some decent performances at the back imo
Palla played very well..that nutmeg by the touch line on Rubin (I think) summed up his performance. He was however too wide and we thus created very little in front of goal. I dont think Sereni was tested all night
One of Almiron or Tiago really needs to start our games to improve our distribution going forward especially if Nedved plays the way he did yesterday
Lastly, I still dont understand ehy Ranieri has such a fixation on Nocerino - I know hes a good fighter and all but his ball passing skills are really poor compared to all our other midfilders.
