Serie A: Juventus vs Livorno [August 25 2007] (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter CORVETTE
- Start date
1st Paragraph:
But, he didn't perform when he had the chance. Who is to say he is going to be fit by the time the first game comes. He has proved nothing. Nocerino, Zanetti and Almiron have all played very well in the pre-season. They earn the spot. Tiago needs time to prove himself and the time will come. He needs to make the most of his chances when he gets them and not be "unmotivated". He started the pre-season as a starter and worked his way to the bench. That wasn't because Ranieri is an unfair man, it is because we need to play the players who want it more. He needs to find himself and he is capable of that, but it is up to him. No one needs to be handed playing time to earn a spot. It can be won on the practice field too, and Almiron has not shut the door. Regardless, Zanetti and Almiron have out played him in completely and should start over him. If Pre-Season for a rebuilt team is only for seeing who isn;t fit, than we certainly found out that Tiago isn't fit and is therefore NOT READY.
2nd P:
Tiago is NOT a BIG player. He was offloaded by Chelsea and offloaded by Lyon. Please, you are totally watching him through rose colored glasses. He is a good player at best. You definately start players based on their performance in preseason friendlies when you have a roster that is not set. We don't exactly have a clear #1 and #2 in this midfield. Tiago is totally off the ball and not in sync with his team right now. Starting him is clearly just you being a fan of his. Be a fan of Juventus first. It is not fair to Nocerino, Zanetti or Almiron who work with the team well and have busted their humps to prove themselves and have done so successfully. Tiago is no Ronaldo and is not entitled to a starting position. Please.
3rd P:
So then you choose to use the Livorno game as an experiment to see if your beloved Tiago is ready? C'mon, it is the first game of the season, we can only base our starting lineup off of pre-season. If we don't use their "current form" as a basis to select a starting 11 than we are just basing our lineup on nothing. I really hope that Ranieri is not that blind.
But, he didn't perform when he had the chance. Who is to say he is going to be fit by the time the first game comes. He has proved nothing. Nocerino, Zanetti and Almiron have all played very well in the pre-season. They earn the spot. Tiago needs time to prove himself and the time will come. He needs to make the most of his chances when he gets them and not be "unmotivated". He started the pre-season as a starter and worked his way to the bench. That wasn't because Ranieri is an unfair man, it is because we need to play the players who want it more. He needs to find himself and he is capable of that, but it is up to him. No one needs to be handed playing time to earn a spot. It can be won on the practice field too, and Almiron has not shut the door. Regardless, Zanetti and Almiron have out played him in completely and should start over him. If Pre-Season for a rebuilt team is only for seeing who isn;t fit, than we certainly found out that Tiago isn't fit and is therefore NOT READY.
2nd P:
Tiago is NOT a BIG player. He was offloaded by Chelsea and offloaded by Lyon. Please, you are totally watching him through rose colored glasses. He is a good player at best. You definately start players based on their performance in preseason friendlies when you have a roster that is not set. We don't exactly have a clear #1 and #2 in this midfield. Tiago is totally off the ball and not in sync with his team right now. Starting him is clearly just you being a fan of his. Be a fan of Juventus first. It is not fair to Nocerino, Zanetti or Almiron who work with the team well and have busted their humps to prove themselves and have done so successfully. Tiago is no Ronaldo and is not entitled to a starting position. Please.
3rd P:
So then you choose to use the Livorno game as an experiment to see if your beloved Tiago is ready? C'mon, it is the first game of the season, we can only base our starting lineup off of pre-season. If we don't use their "current form" as a basis to select a starting 11 than we are just basing our lineup on nothing. I really hope that Ranieri is not that blind.
I'm not even gonna read that first paragraph, the first sentence is enough, but say what I already said; you don't earn a spot for the first team in friendlies, you do so in training and your performances in COMPETITIVE matches. If you're gonna choose players from friendlies then we might as well bench Trezeguet and put in Lanzafame. Iaquinta, even Chiellini or Molinaro, neither of them impressed in friendlies, they outta be benched. We mustn't start with Camoranesi as well, he didn't even play in the friendlies since they are so important. Tiago has enough quality to start this game ahead of any of our central midfielder. Who's to say Almiron won't succumb to pressure and play like shit in this match, even though he was our best player in the preseason? You simply don't know because competitive games are the ones that matter, these friendlies you cling to mean jack shit and you're just using them because you have a hard on for Italian players, especially defensive midfielders.
I'm no fan of Tiago and never was, I never followed him closely as I don't watch the French leauge, and I rarely catch a game of EPL here and there. I'm just sick of people like you criticising him for no apparent reason, the guy never played a competitive match but a handfull of friendlies and is already placed on the bench. There's no logic there. He was offloaded to Lyon because they got Essien who is a class of his own, there is no shame there. He went to a big club in Lyon and played CL football there, not to mention won the French leauge a number of times. He's no Ronaldo for sure but he is a big player, his career speaks for himself, like it or not but playing for Benfica, Chelsea, Lyon and now Juventus is pretty impressive. Big club followed by a bigger club, every move was a step forward.
It's no experiment, it'd be a bigger experiment to put on Nocerino who has no experience whatsoever ahead of a proven international that has played in Europe's finest leauges. But hell, what does that matter, he's Italian, that's what matters, right?
I'm no fan of Tiago and never was, I never followed him closely as I don't watch the French leauge, and I rarely catch a game of EPL here and there. I'm just sick of people like you criticising him for no apparent reason, the guy never played a competitive match but a handfull of friendlies and is already placed on the bench. There's no logic there. He was offloaded to Lyon because they got Essien who is a class of his own, there is no shame there. He went to a big club in Lyon and played CL football there, not to mention won the French leauge a number of times. He's no Ronaldo for sure but he is a big player, his career speaks for himself, like it or not but playing for Benfica, Chelsea, Lyon and now Juventus is pretty impressive. Big club followed by a bigger club, every move was a step forward.
It's no experiment, it'd be a bigger experiment to put on Nocerino who has no experience whatsoever ahead of a proven international that has played in Europe's finest leauges. But hell, what does that matter, he's Italian, that's what matters, right?
It is pointless to argue with you on this. I just want to post my last post again. You are definately a blind Tiago fan. I am sure he will work his way into the starting lineup, but not against Livorno. I hope Ranieri is not as blind as you. And as far as Nocerino goes... I doubt you can judge this situation objectively if you don't think nocerino should start over Tiago. This whole "Tonykart only likes Italian players" has now been taken to a new level and is used as a cop-out for a not having a legitamate counter point.
I have to say I disagree. I'm a big fan of Tiago and I'm positive he'll become great for us, but preseason does matter. One preseason game does not, preseason does. I haven't seen Tiago play well one game. Nocerino and Almiron on the other hand have impressed. I don't see how it would be better for anyone to play Tiago instead of Nocerino.
Tiago's not match fit anyway. What's important though is that he doesn't lose his confidence. If he's not there come November, I doubt we'll ever get to see the real Tiago.
Haha, you're really something, I already gave you a counterpoint, a proven player on international level or a inexperienced kid that played Serie B football. It's obvious what anyone with least objectivity would pick, it's your fault you can't help but go with Italian.
Just for the record, I really do like Nocerino, I think he's gonna be great in the future.
It matters to some extent surely, but not to cross out a player like Tiago because of it. I mean lets bench him now, lets put a unproven Nocerino ahead of him in the first game of the season, what will that do to his morale? You don't turn your back on a player so easily. I don't want Tiago to take anyone's place without deserving it, but I don't think he has even had his place yet, therefore he doesn't deserve to lose it already.
If he's not fit that's another thing, but if he is I'd rather go with thim than an unproven Nocerino.
Just for the record, I really do like Nocerino, I think he's gonna be great in the future.
It matters to some extent surely, but not to cross out a player like Tiago because of it. I mean lets bench him now, lets put a unproven Nocerino ahead of him in the first game of the season, what will that do to his morale? You don't turn your back on a player so easily. I don't want Tiago to take anyone's place without deserving it, but I don't think he has even had his place yet, therefore he doesn't deserve to lose it already.
If he's not fit that's another thing, but if he is I'd rather go with thim than an unproven Nocerino.
Camoranesi > Tiago.
I'm with tonykart on this one. Almiron, Nocerino and Zanetti warrant a place ahead of Tiago right now. Though I'd go for neither Nocerino or Tiago.
Almiron- Zanetti is the best midfield partnership right now. It's the first game of the season, so i'd go with the most reliable quality. Zanetti knows the team, is very experienced and has proven in pre-season to bring balance to our somewhat unstable team. Almiron has Serie A experience and with his high-level performances in pre-season has fought for a starting place, which DOES matter. Tiago on the other hand, has only shown poor performances, has fitness issues and no Serie A experience; he should not start this game. Nocerino, though having impressed so far, is inexperienced and should be Zanetti's deputy for the time being.
And no way would I drop Nedved or Camo to accomodate an extra central midfielder. Which ties in to Mark's "Camo> Tiago". Of course Mark knows they are different, but you could drop one for the other. Then it comes down to who's the better player(for the team), which Camo is.
Almiron- Zanetti is the best midfield partnership right now. It's the first game of the season, so i'd go with the most reliable quality. Zanetti knows the team, is very experienced and has proven in pre-season to bring balance to our somewhat unstable team. Almiron has Serie A experience and with his high-level performances in pre-season has fought for a starting place, which DOES matter. Tiago on the other hand, has only shown poor performances, has fitness issues and no Serie A experience; he should not start this game. Nocerino, though having impressed so far, is inexperienced and should be Zanetti's deputy for the time being.
And no way would I drop Nedved or Camo to accomodate an extra central midfielder. Which ties in to Mark's "Camo> Tiago". Of course Mark knows they are different, but you could drop one for the other. Then it comes down to who's the better player(for the team), which Camo is.
