Serie A: Juventus vs Livorno [August 25 2007] (34 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

Camoranesi > Tiago.

Another insightful post from this kid. Tiago and Camoranesi play different roles and are completely different players. But we can't expect this kid to know that.

 

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[Bjerknes]

That's a completelly unfounded comparison.

It's not only unfounded, my man. It's like comparing a television to a clock radio.

 

[JCK]

You don't understand players like Tiago. Ranieri probably doesn't either. If you don't give him a specific role on the side of midfield, you will waste him.

I just think not too many people here understand what a player such as Tiago can do for a side, but then again they don't give him a chance, which is all too common. Give him a motherfucking chance for a change. It's no joke when people state you're far too critical sometimes, Vinni. We haven't even played one real match yet.

Talking about roles for Tiago, I can see him being given several roles, so why waste many of his talents and let him work on one job during a match?

I would give him a free role with along with a defensive midfielder and an attacking one.

 

[bianconero]

So good for Chelsea that they let him leave!


No I saw many games for Chelsea that he played (for reasons I won't go in to, I had to endure watching them) and he was not the player he was at Benifca.

 

[V]

I would love to see a 4-5-1, or a 4-3-3, midfield deployed by Ranieri; Tiago & Almiron as central midfielders with the inclusion of Zanetti or Nocerino as the defensive midfielder. Camoranesi or Iaquinta on the right and Nedved or DP on the left and Trezeguet as the man upfront. The only downside would be limiting DP on the wing, he was never really good at it as he's good upfront.

All in all I don't want to see Tiago crossed out so soon, at least not untill winter.

 

[rainhard]

Sabtu, 25 Agustus 2007 :
22.45 - 01.15 WIB | Lazio vs Torino (Live)
01.15 - 03.30 WIB | Juventus vs Livorno (live)

Minggu, 26 Agustus 2007 :
19.30 - 22.00 WIB | Inter Milan vs Udinese (Live)
23.00 - 01.00 WIB | Genoa vs Milan (delay)

oh yes, Trans 7 one of television station in my country shows juventus match

 

[Gill_juve]

You don't understand players like Tiago. Ranieri probably doesn't either. If you don't give him a specific role on the side of midfield, you will waste him.

I just think not too many people here understand what a player such as Tiago can do for a side, but then again they don't give him a chance, which is all too common. Give him a motherfucking chance for a change. It's no joke when people state you're far too critical sometimes, Vinni. We haven't even played one real match yet.

i agree about the first part, we have to put tiago in a specific position where he'll be most efficient.

 

[Dominic]

Namely the bench .

 

[Gill_juve]

I would love to see a 4-5-1, or a 4-3-3, midfield deployed by Ranieri; Tiago & Almiron as central midfielders with the inclusion of Zanetti or Nocerino as the defensive midfielder. Camoranesi or Iaquinta on the right and Nedved or DP on the left and Trezeguet as the man upfront. The only downside would be limiting DP on the wing, he was never really good at it as he's good upfront.

All in all I don't want to see Tiago crossed out so soon, at least not untill winter.

i like that, even though 4-3-3 hasnt worked well for us i think with both tiago and almiron it could be very effective.

 

[tonykart]

I agree with you. I've never been overly impressed by Tiago.

Tiago is an above average player who will be good for us for a few years. He is not and never will be world class. It is comforting though to know that he is on the bench. You know what you'll get out of him. He does everything pretty good and nothing great. Solid, balanced... he is a good bench guy. He is expendable to every team he has been on, and I am sure we will sell him in a few years when we get too good.

Almiron may be the same thing, but I feel that he hasn't reached his full potential yet. I still doubt how much potential he actually has.

Nocerino is amazing and will be one of the best DM's in the world. Starting Nocerino is a MUST. It is NOT an option. He has been one of our best players throughout pre-season and has a great presence in the central midfield. Whoever starts next to him should be the only discussion.

 

[tonykart]

I would love to see a 4-5-1, or a 4-3-3, midfield deployed by Ranieri; Tiago & Almiron as central midfielders with the inclusion of Zanetti or Nocerino as the defensive midfielder. Camoranesi or Iaquinta on the right and Nedved or DP on the left and Trezeguet as the man upfront. The only downside would be limiting DP on the wing, he was never really good at it as he's good upfront.

All in all I don't want to see Tiago crossed out so soon, at least not untill winter.

Our midfield clearly works best with both Nocerino and Zanetti in it. Whether or not they are you style of player is beside the point. We need to win. Tiago isn't ready and Almiron is on the same level with Zanetti who is totally in tune with the team he played with last year. If we go 433 or 451, I would want to see Nocerino, Zanetti, and either Almiron or Tiago.

 

[Gill_juve]

tbh i odnt get why people are already acting as if tigo is some average shitty backup player. hes a good player and hes proved that at chelsea and lyon.

 

[tonykart]

Another insightful post from this kid. Tiago and Camoranesi play different roles and are completely different players. But we can't expect this kid to know that.

But, when you want to sacrifice Camoranesi being on the field so you can play Tiago, this DOES come into play. Ignorance is bliss isn't it Andy.

 

[tonykart]

tbh i odnt get why people are already acting as if tigo is some average shitty backup player. hes a good player and hes proved that at chelsea and lyon.

He is above average and fits into teams nicely. He is NOT an out and out starter on a big time team. He will be good for us in a rotation system with our midfield. He is versatile and balanced. I see him being a rotation player with Almiron.

 

[V]

Our midfield clearly works best with both Nocerino and Zanetti in it. Whether or not they are you style of player is beside the point. We need to win. Tiago isn't ready and Almiron is on the same level with Zanetti who is totally in tune with the team he played with last year. If we go 433 or 451, I would want to see Nocerino, Zanetti, and either Almiron or Tiago.

Of course we need to win, did I say we need not to? And where did I say they're not my "style of player" as you put it? And I don't know where you got that our midfield works best with both Nocerino and Zanetti in it since we only played a handfull of friendlies and in most of them it was either Tiago and Almiron or Almiron and Zanetti or Nocerino. Tiago was not good in preseason but that doesn't mean anything, friendlies are meant for gaining fitness and if he's fit he should start our first official match, he has the quality and you'll all see that. Like I said, I hope he's gonna start with Almiron and Zanetti or Nocerino in a 4-3-3 midfield. Having two uber-defensive midfielders play alongside a 3rd deep lying central midfielder is kind of drastic and unbalanced.

He is above average and fits into teams nicely. He is NOT an out and out starter on a big time team. He will be good for us in a rotation system with our midfield. He is versatile and balanced. I see him being a rotation player with Almiron.

You've gotta be kidding me. A rotational player..

 

[tonykart]

Of course we need to win, did I say we need not to? And where did I say they're not my "style of player" as you put it? And I don't know where you got that our midfield works best with both Nocerino and Zanetti in it since we only played a handfull of friendlies and in most of them it was either Tiago and Almiron or Almiron and Zanetti or Nocerino. Tiago was not good in preseason but that doesn't mean anything, friendlies are meant for gaining fitness and if he's fit he should start our first official match, he has the quality and you'll all see that. Like I said, I hope he's gonna start with Almiron and Zanetti or Nocerino in a 4-3-3 midfield. Having two uber-defensive midfielders play alongside a 3rd deep lying central midfielder is kind of drastic and unbalanced.

You preference is totally visable. You can't just play someone because you think he is good. You play the people who have earned roster spots. He hasn't earned anything. I don't doubt that he could be better than Almiron or Zanetti or Juventus, but he is no better than them right now. You have to live in the present and make decisions based on RIGHT NOW. Let him earn his spot. He has done nothing to earn a starting spot vs. Livorno.

You've gotta be kidding me. A rotational player..

Yes, you vastly overrate him. He is no better than Almiron, Zanetti or Nocerino. Hence, the four will share playing time. Whoever is playing the best out of those four, gets to start. That is how things work. Coaches can't be fans.

 

[tonykart]

Of course we need to win, did I say we need not to? And where did I say they're not my "style of player" as you put it? And I don't know where you got that our midfield works best with both Nocerino and Zanetti in it since we only played a handfull of friendlies and in most of them it was either Tiago and Almiron or Almiron and Zanetti or Nocerino. Tiago was not good in preseason but that doesn't mean anything, friendlies are meant for gaining fitness and if he's fit he should start our first official match, he has the quality and you'll all see that. Like I said, I hope he's gonna start with Almiron and Zanetti or Nocerino in a 4-3-3 midfield. Having two uber-defensive midfielders play alongside a 3rd deep lying central midfielder is kind of drastic and unbalanced.

You preference is totally visable. You can't just play someone because you think he is good. You play the people who have earned roster spots. He hasn't earned anything. I don't doubt that he could be better than Almiron or Zanetti for Juventus, but he is no better than them right now. You have to live in the present and make decisions based on RIGHT NOW. Let him earn his spot. He has done nothing to earn a starting spot vs. Livorno. And that would not be an unbalanced midfield at all.

You've gotta be kidding me. A rotational player..

Yes, you vastly overrate him. He is no better than Almiron, Zanetti or Nocerino. Hence, the four will share playing time. Whoever is playing the best out of those four, gets to start. That is how things work. Coaches can't be fans.

 

[tonykart]

So good for Chelsea that they let him leave!


No I saw many games for Chelsea that he played (for reasons I won't go in to, I had to endure watching them) and he was not the player he was at Benifca.

He is a totally expendable player. I really don't know what people see in him. Maybe they play the same way as he does in real life and then build a preference to him... I don't know. He is totally overrated on these forums as most of our new recruits are.

 

[Kosta]

Reading trough your posts, I say we fire Ranieri and apoint you as Juventus coach.

 

[V]

You preference is totally visable. You can't just play someone because you think he is good. You play the people who have earned roster spots. He hasn't earned anything. I don't doubt that he could be better than Almiron or Zanetti or Juventus, but he is no better than them right now. You have to live in the present and make decisions based on RIGHT NOW. Let him earn his spot. He has done nothing to earn a starting spot vs. Livorno.

Yes, you vastly overrate him. He is no better than Almiron, Zanetti or Nocerino. Hence, the four will share playing time. Whoever is playing the best out of those four, gets to start. That is how things work. Coaches can't be fans.

I'm all for players earning their spots and would never put a player on pitch beacuse of his name or reputation. But you and everyone else who has crossed him out is out of line, you can't and you don't judge players in pre-season friendlies. Players are out of shape and unmotivated in those matches, hell most of them play 45 minutes in those matches because coaches wanna try everyone out. They tell nothing, they're just for testing players and seeing who's fit and who's not, who needs extra training to get into shape and who needs rest, that's what they're for.

If Tiago is not fit and can't play for 90 minutes than by all means he should not play, but if he's fit and he's gonna be benched because he failed to impress in pre-season friendlies, I think that is absurd. He was brought here as a international who has played as a starter in clubs in 3 different big European leauges, he's a NT player for a number of years, that kind of experience means something and can't be looked over because of underachieving friendlies. Big players show what they're made of in important matches, not everyone gives his 110% in every game like Nedved for example.

Your last paragraph I agree with completelly, whoever performs best, plays, but that choice is to be made after a number of COMPETITIVE matches, that's only logical. Making those kind of choices now is stupid IMO.