Serie A: Juventus vs Atalanta [DEC 9th 2007] (8 Viewers)

Jan 7, 2004
29,704

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,482

Rami

The Linuxologist
Dec 24, 2004
8,065
why no rating for Iaquinta ?

he played an entire half
Well cuz you probably didn't read the whole thing. I said that I didn't see the first 30 minutes, so I can't judge....As for Palladino in the 15 minutes I saw, I noticed he was shit....Thats why I rated him, Iaquinta wasn't really noticeable.
 

sateeh

Day Walker
Jul 28, 2003
8,020
well just a few comments on the game

- If people are still questioning why ranieri plays with two DMs well last night was the perfect reasoning. On two clear occasions Legro was skinned by Floccari and nocerino had to track back and defend deep. We simply don't have a good enough defense.

-Ranieri: Neddy saved his ass last night, i dont know why he made those two subs at half time. Palladino wasn't the best on the field but he was better than marchionni. And changing the team just like that in HT when you're on 0-0 isn't necessary at all imo. And as good as zanetti was we needed something more from the midfield and Tiago should've introduced after the 75th minute.

- Molinaro: much better game from him and its good to see improvements. I still would like to see better crosses though. Credit to him though for all the links up and the overall improvement.

-Alex: Great game by the captain, lets see if he can do it from the beginning next week as i think he will start.

ohh and zebina is one funny bastard, what the hell was he thinking :lol:
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Just take a look at these exagerations and see where the hype for a player can reach just after one good game
Sky Sport man of the match : MOLINARO
Actually we played our best " first half" in the season thanks to Molinaro .
Molinaro always showed a spark . To me , I always prefered him over anyone else we had as rightback . You could obviously see he was better than Grygera .
Molinaro was awesome today. People who claim he sucks, he can´t defend, he can´t cross, he is a headlees chicken, he is not Juve material and that he needs to be sold a.s.a.p. need to have their eyes checked. Bunch of ignorants.

He has the potential to be a very good LB for us in the future. We don´t need a new player for his position. Molinaro >> Balzaretti
OMG


Del Neri: Nedved Was The Difference


“We played them on level terms with a good performance, but the class of one individual made the difference," said Del Neri after the game.
He has to be talking about Molinaro right??


Not exactly fans. Just Juventini who are pleased to see the guy giving his all whenever he plays for Juve. Chances are slim that he'll become our regular LB for the next 5-10 years but for now we can do nothing but expect him to play like he did today, especially now when there is no better option at LB. And we can do nothing else but to support him and be pleased whenever he plays good, like he did today
Agree:agree: I wish him all the best and furthermore i wish that Molinaro will develop to the new Maldini and Zebina to the new Cafu:p
I m happy to see them putting great performances, no mistakes, constant effort, backed with iron determination. I m more happy to see them improving, as they are our weak links and need to improve more than the rest to catch up,
i would honestly would be thrilled to see Molinaro repeat the same performance against big clubs! I think all Juventini feel the same, we all want whats its best for Juve.



When he was Molinaro's age, Di Livio was playing for Padova.......in serie B.
And if you're saying that Di Livio was a gifted player then you probably never saw him. Di Livio was a fighter, no wonder he was called soldatino. And his huge heart and speed made him the player he was. That's why i compared Molinaro to Di Livio. They have this handicap and they must double or triple their efforts in trainings and during the match.
Between Di Livio and Molinaro, there are hundreds of thousands, of Birindelis.
We have to point out, that today, modern players, with the help of modern science (EPO etc) have become more athletic, than ever before. There are very little natural super endurance talents left. Point is, that Di Livio at his age had an advantage most of his teamates handn! He had no skill with the ball, but there was no need for this back then, today the first criterion for a full back, is the ability to go forward and help the team offensively. Di Livio was pretty good for what he was doing, he had more muscle than Molinaro, much more determination paired with great instinct, that helped him to be in the right position at the right time,
he was able to stop the opposition's organised attack and create a danzerous counter attack by his own, effectively
A simple thing that Molinaro will never do, that player has not the necessary, brains or skills or determination for that!
I dont know and i dont care if he will be ever able to do that,
point is that right now he cant! He cant help us, as much, as a more complete player like Balza could. And even if he does in the future and doesnt mean that he is not hurting our team, right now, by not doing, right now, what he might,
or might NOT, do in the future...


WTF ???
He ran like a madman just so he will always be at the right place to cover in defense and to be close to Nedved and Del Piero only 5-6 seconds later. You're really biased if you're saying that he didn't play well today and if he didn't do exactly what he was supposed to do.
Molinaro at his age, should do that up until the dying minutes, but most of the times he disappears after minute 70' and i dont think, thats random. Just look Neddy at his age, they both share the same wing, Molinaro did 4 springs at his best day and Neddy does more than 10 in every match! And just like someone said, when Molinaro runs, he runs like a headless chicken that has no idea, from what is he running from...


Yes, it's really strange how someone who's nothing in the world of football, like Ranieri, didn't see all this and it was so clear to you.
It's strange how Ranieri sold such a perfect player who can't defend even if his life depends on it, like Balzaretti, and replaced him with Molinaro.
How can this silly Ranieri play Molinaro when we have two more guys (not counting Chiellini) who can play LB (Salihamidzic and Criscito) ?
Molinaro really has nothing but Ranieri can't see that.
Stop blaming or praising CR for everything that happens in our team, its the noob Secco, that Fiorentina fan, the one responsible for Balza's sale.
At least Balza had some skills going forward, esp at the era, when he and Chiellini were fighting for the LB spot at equal terms, Balza had the best cross after Zambro, he was at least useful at smth.What Molinaro has, to compensate that?
He is worse both going forward and as bad when he has to be solid defensively.
Point is that Balza right now would be a wiser choice, we could wait for Molinaro to grow up a bit before we bring him back.

We don't play on talent or skills this year Cronios. We play on passion, heart, we play physical game. And Molinaro offers all this.
Havent you heard?? We are not in serie B anymore...some wackos say we are challengers for the serie A title:burke:

I'm not saying he'll be world class. I'm saying he's the best we have for now and he's doing pretty well so far.
Who does a player that is constantly rated with 5.0 doing pretty well so far?
I agree that he had a good match against Atalanta, but thats not enough!
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
To clarify this, misquoted misunderstanding:
I was referring to my previous post and the comparison between Criscito and Molinaro. I wanted to point out that, although those two have apparently the same conditions in our team and the same chances to shine, the situation is totally different!
If Molinaro was in Criscito's place, witch is a starter between the substitutes, and was used in games like cup game against Empoli and ONLY then,
or a quarter of hour (actually Molinaro played 20'+ in that game)
BUT the important thing is between the reserves, he would suck and would never be noticed.
Another example is Legro, the same man sucked against Empoli, like everybody and did horrible mistakes that didnt repeat yesterday.
Why? because he is not good enough and he can only perform decently only when he has good players besides him.
Thats exactly whats happening with Molinaro, plus the fact that his position is much less challenging than the CB, if Molinaro does 5 mistakes in a game, the CBs might cover up most of them.
If Criscito does one as a CB, it could be fatal, just like someone else pointed out, playing Molinaro as a starter is less risky than playing Criscito as a starter,
but that doesnt mean that Molinaro is any better...
 

Marc

Softcore Juventino
Jul 14, 2006
21,649
Molinaro is being rated with 5.0 every match? Yea and who is rating him that way? Many people on this Forum who think they are the real experts.

Just for your information, average rating of Molinaro for this whole season by Gazzeta dello Sport is 6.30. So, you do the math.
 

lil zlatan

Senior Member
Mar 5, 2006
1,083
Player ratings from Gazzetta dello Sport, Corriere della Sera and Corriere dello Sport.

Juventus: Buffon 6,33 - Zebina 6,00, Legrottaglie 6,33, Chiellini 6,33, Molinaro 6,67 - Palladino 5,00 (46' Marchionni 5,17), Nocerino 5,83, C. Zanetti 6,17, Nedved 7,33 (91' Tiago) - Trezeguet 5,33, Iaquinta 5,33 (46' Del Piero 6,67). - Ranieri 6,33.
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
54,025
Simple, Molinaro didn't play against Empoli ;)
+Rep

To clarify this, misquoted misunderstanding:
I was referring to my previous post and the comparison between Criscito and Molinaro. I wanted to point out that, although those two have apparently the same conditions in our team and the same chances to shine, the situation is totally different!
If Molinaro was in Criscito's place, witch is a starter between the substitutes, and was used in games like cup game against Empoli and ONLY then,
or a quarter of hour (actually Molinaro played 20'+ in that game)
BUT the important thing is between the reserves, he would suck and would never be noticed.
Another example is Legro, the same man sucked against Empoli, like everybody and did horrible mistakes that didnt repeat yesterday.
Why? because he is not good enough and he can only perform decently only when he has good players besides him.
Thats exactly whats happening with Molinaro, plus the fact that his position is much less challenging than the CB, if Molinaro does 5 mistakes in a game, the CBs might cover up most of them.
If Criscito does one as a CB, it could be fatal, just like someone else pointed out, playing Molinaro as a starter is less risky than playing Criscito as a starter,
but that doesnt mean that Molinaro is any better...
Yes, it could be the case, but you made it sound like it is the case and like it happened. You made it sound like Molinaro already got the chance to play with other reserves and he was awful there because he's also just a reserve player quality. And then you said how even Almiron is 10x times better than him.

While the fact is :
Molinaro didn't play against Empoli, or at least he didn't play while we've been destroyed. He, Nocerino and Iaquinta played only the last part of the match, when it was already 2:0 for Empoli. After these three entered the pitch we suddenly stopped Vannucchi from doing whatever he wants on the right side (our left side), we suddenly shut down their midfield and we scored a goal.
And all this happened while we were a man down because the 10x better player got himself a nice red card.

Oh and this.... the first time he got the chance to play with many reserves, in the first coppa match against Parma, he scored the opening goal.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
27,519
Molinaro is being rated with 5.0 every match? Yea and who is rating him that way? Many people on this Forum who think they are the real experts.

Just for your information, average rating of Molinaro for this whole season by Gazzeta dello Sport is 6.30. So, you do the math.
If he has such a high average then i wonder what kind of average Nocerino, Chiellini and even Legro have...


Player ratings from Gazzetta dello Sport, Corriere della Sera and Corriere dello Sport.

Juventus: Buffon 6,33 - Zebina 6,00, Legrottaglie 6,33, Chiellini 6,33, Molinaro 6,67 - Palladino 5,00 (46' Marchionni 5,17), Nocerino 5,83, C. Zanetti 6,17, Nedved 7,33 (91' Tiago) - Trezeguet 5,33, Iaquinta 5,33 (46' Del Piero 6,67). - Ranieri 6,33.
For this game i also rated Molinaro with a 6.6, most of my ratings do match we Gazzetta's ( a disgusting thought though)
But it doesnt prove anything, by this logic he is better than Chiellini, they probably rate ball possession above other things, but IMO Chie was more efficient and cleared the ball every time he was called, Molinaro instead made many mistakes, esp when he had to cross. Under those circumstances i trust and value more the ratings of some of the members here, because i know their logic and i m able to understand what their ratings represent! Even if some ppl rate differently, you can understand the variation of performance. This week Molinaro was ver very good for his standards and everybody rated him 1 point more than the usual, that would mean 6.5 average, so you can do the maths...

Yes, it could be the case, but you made it sound like it is the case and like it happened. You made it sound like Molinaro already got the chance to play with other reserves and he was awful there because he's also just a reserve player quality. And then you said how even Almiron is 10x times better than him.

While the fact is :
Molinaro didn't play against Empoli, or at least he didn't play while we've been destroyed. He, Nocerino and Iaquinta played only the last part of the match, when it was already 2:0 for Empoli. After these three entered the pitch we suddenly stopped Vannucchi from doing whatever he wants on the right side (our left side), we suddenly shut down their midfield and we scored a goal.
And all this happened while we were a man down because the 10x better player got himself a nice red card.

Oh and this.... the first time he got the chance to play with many reserves, in the first coppa match against Parma, he scored the opening goal.
We are starting to understand each other:toast:
Molinaro did played, with the other reserves and he was awful, but thats not my point, the most important thing that i m trying point out, is, that he got much more playing time than others. And not because he earned that playing time on the field, by showing good performance!
Just like i said, the very same Legro sucked with the reserves and played a decent game among the standards.(if Andrade and Boumsong were fit he would probably had problems after this performance) When Molinaro came in, nothing really changed, it was players like Iaquinta and Neddy that always do the difference and some of us fail to see it, because we are used to it. Instead Molinaro has getting us used, with mediocre performances and when he does a decent one, once in a month, you ppl get so jubilant.:disagree:
And why did i said that Almiron is 10 times better than Molinaro?
(Beside the fact that Almiron, is more experienced and skilled.)
Because i ve seen Almiron lead a team and make a difference by his own,
i ve seen almost all of our pre-season games and Almiron was steadily one of our best players. I ve never seen Molinaro being so good and dominant, ever!
The difference between those two is that Almiron has to face a huge competition,
if he doesnt deliver,just once, anyone between Tiago,Nocerino and Zanetti could replace him. Whilst there is no one to replace Molinaro when he sux. Thats a huge difference there. Molinaro doesnt feel any kind of pressure right now, the kind of pressure that crippled Balza.
Another example is Tiago, the guy really sucked at pre season games and at the beginning of the season,thats why he didnt get the chance to prove him self again, he put a few half decent appearances, the very limited times he had his chance and thats it. If he had more chances and we hadnt any alternative solutions,
he could also deliver the same performances Molinaro delivers and most probably even better. It doesnt he is a worse player than Molinaro. Molinaro didnt earned his place by pulling good performances. He was as bad, as Tiago and Almiron were at the beginning, but unfortunately we didnt have any other alternative solutions and we had to put up with him, he may be improving but he still hasnt done enough to be considered a Juve starter, (not even Juve material if you ask me)
Good will isnt enough, for this level of fotbal. Molinaro's work rate isnt anything special to compensate the lack of his skills, we even doubt even if Nocerino's is and Rinocer really has it in him! An average serie A player would have shown the same work rate at this age and the same determination while being a Juve starter. Molinaro is nothing out of ordinary. If you believe that he has some special skills that will be revealed/honed under the guidance of our super coach,
its another story. I have seen almost all of our games this season and i have spent two years beside a former coach, speaking about tactics and studying young talents, so far i havent noticed anything unnatural in Molinaro's skills, i wonder what you saw. So far i talked about the skills Molinaro havent and i havent heard any skills Molinaro has, so far i have seen our wings getting dominated from Molinaro's side when Neddy wasnt present, so far i ve seen most of the oppositions playmakers prefer this side to make their counterattacks, so far i ve seen our left wing THE most idle wing and part on field when we dont have Neddy's support. So far i have seen minimal assists or succesful crosses of Molinaro's legs, so far i have seen a minimal number of counterattacks blocked by Molinaro's efforts. Where is that guy? What does he offers in our team and you pll admire him so much? What kind of miracles you expect from CR?
If CR or any other coach can perform such miracles and make a Zambro out of that Molinaro, than why all the big teams spend big sums for tranfers every year?
They are all so stupid, they could just get a kid like Molinaro and make a champion out of him...:melayyanandmessi:
 

sateeh

Day Walker
Jul 28, 2003
8,020
about the Molinaro discussion. Cronios i think you mentioned something like he doesn't as hard and fades out at the 70th minute?

i really disagree with that part, the guy always gives a lot of energy from start to finish but his execution that has been awful. I've always been harsh on him considering that unlike brazzo, nocerino, cristicio he has been playing serie A football for the past season at least.

He has the abilities to improve, he was playing as a left winger for Siena last season ffs and from what i saw he had better abilities than the ones we saw. The only burning issue was that we don't have that much of time as there are younger players that need that time to develop.

Credit to him He is improving.


Another point about the game is Legro. He was solid but now we have to expect more from him. Had floccari been a better player or we didn't have defensive players around him(not to forget gigi) we would be in serious trouble. And what the fuck is with him and that long inaccurate ball ? He lost possession more than 5 times in the game without any pressure on him. I hope its not the empoli that shot his confidence a bit
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 8)