Serie A: Catania vs Juventus [Jan 13 2008] (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Snoop
- Start date
I was watching Guida Al Campionato, and the Italian critics, were saying that while Del Piero's penalty was dubious as the player seemed to get some of the ball before tripping Ale, even Catania's goal was highly dubious. Spinesi, at the time of the cross, had his right leg and whole upper body ahead of Molinaro, and thus maybe should have been given offside.
I didn't see the whole game, just highlights and clips, but from what i saw Marchionni made an impact when coming on at half time for Tiago. I've read the past 10 pages of people ranting, and saying he was a bad sub, but from what i saw, he was quite impressive.
Ranieri, on an interview in this program said he asked for a player for January, but when they asked who, he said I can't tell you. Hopefully it will be a fantasista like Diego but we'll probably end up with some useless player like Sissoko.
According to the critics, Sissoko will be a waste of money, while so would Van der Vaart, as he is a secondo punta, which is what Del Piero and Palladino are, and Iaquinta can also be played in that position. For them we need a world class defender. The was also Ravanelli on the program, and he said for Juve to compete for this year's scudetto, we'll have to buy 3 or 4 players.
If i had to choose these four players, taking into consideration price and also players that will want to come in mid season. First of all I'd buy a defender, preferably a very good central defender, not many come to mind for January but we should try for defenders in Spain who are not getting a chance at their clubs, for example Real Madrid have Canna, Metzelder, Heinze, Ramos and Pepe, as players who can play as CB. 5 world class players, i'm sure at least 1 is not happy about being in the stands all the time. We should bid for one, at least a 6 month loan with an option to buy for a reduced price in June.
Also another position we definitely need in LB, at the beginning i never criticized Molinaro as i thought once he'd get used to the stlye of play he'd calm down and be a good player, but it has not been so. In the second half he had one good shot, but in all the highlights, thats the only action i saw. Once again we should strengthen this position in this transfer window. Once again a Real Madrid player comes to mind: Marcelo, a couple of seasons ago he was considered the next best left back, then he disappeared for like a season, and now is starting to play again with Real, even though Drenthe and heinze are sometimes preffered as left backs. If FM is anything to go by, he has an 8 million euro release clause, and at the price would be a steal. He is fast, good crossing, reads the game well, and can play as a left winger in times of need. Juve have always been based on good wing backs, and this year should be no different. First it was Zambrotta and Thuram, then Chiellini and Zambrotta, we need another wing back for certain.
The next position i'd reinforce is central midfield. yes we have many players, yes Nocerino and Zanetti give us quantity in the middle of the park, but do they give us creativity? Not really. The most creative i've seen either is in the Lazio game, where Zanetti gave 2 exquisite passes from our half onto the foot of Del Piero who scored twice on the counter. I'd keep Zanetti in teh team cause he is the destroyer with great stamina. He reads the game and breaks down the opponents attacks, and doesn't get into people's bad books.
Nocerino, has a lot of spirit and might become a good player, but at the moment, is a luxury which our team can't afford, if he knew how to pass and create opportunites, i'd love him in our team, but he is there to break down and then pass the ball to Zanetti. If we aren't going to let Tiago play in his preferred position, we might as well buy someone new.
First name that comes to mind is Van der Vaart, to be honest, i only watched him in his Ajax days, where he was good. This type of player is certainly needed, whether Rafael is the player, i'm not sure, but i doubt we can find an AMC for less than 11 million sterling, who has played well everywhere he has gone, at least thats the impression i've got. An alternative, and cheaper solution, would be to play Nedved as AMC, and buy someone as a left winger(which is the next position i'm coming to), but with nedved's age and temper, it might not be the best choice.
A left winger, we need Nedved's replacement, no question about it. He is 35 i believe, yet he is the one who has the passion to keep running, but his legs might not be able to keep up with his passion for much longer. We should have signed a replacement at least 2 years ago, and molded him into the player we want and need. Instead they kept buying DMC's, so we're stuck with a 35 year old winger. The cheapest, and maybe best option would be to recall Giovinco from his loan at Empoli, but this could backfire by putting too much attention on the youngster, and when this happens it may ruin careers(just look at Francis Jeffers). Another option might be Drenthe who has been linked with us.
If we get these players, then I believe we might actually challenge for the title, but we'll prob end up with Sissoko and sell Tiago Boumsong and Almiron.
I didn't see the whole game, just highlights and clips, but from what i saw Marchionni made an impact when coming on at half time for Tiago. I've read the past 10 pages of people ranting, and saying he was a bad sub, but from what i saw, he was quite impressive.
Ranieri, on an interview in this program said he asked for a player for January, but when they asked who, he said I can't tell you. Hopefully it will be a fantasista like Diego but we'll probably end up with some useless player like Sissoko.
According to the critics, Sissoko will be a waste of money, while so would Van der Vaart, as he is a secondo punta, which is what Del Piero and Palladino are, and Iaquinta can also be played in that position. For them we need a world class defender. The was also Ravanelli on the program, and he said for Juve to compete for this year's scudetto, we'll have to buy 3 or 4 players.
If i had to choose these four players, taking into consideration price and also players that will want to come in mid season. First of all I'd buy a defender, preferably a very good central defender, not many come to mind for January but we should try for defenders in Spain who are not getting a chance at their clubs, for example Real Madrid have Canna, Metzelder, Heinze, Ramos and Pepe, as players who can play as CB. 5 world class players, i'm sure at least 1 is not happy about being in the stands all the time. We should bid for one, at least a 6 month loan with an option to buy for a reduced price in June.
Also another position we definitely need in LB, at the beginning i never criticized Molinaro as i thought once he'd get used to the stlye of play he'd calm down and be a good player, but it has not been so. In the second half he had one good shot, but in all the highlights, thats the only action i saw. Once again we should strengthen this position in this transfer window. Once again a Real Madrid player comes to mind: Marcelo, a couple of seasons ago he was considered the next best left back, then he disappeared for like a season, and now is starting to play again with Real, even though Drenthe and heinze are sometimes preffered as left backs. If FM is anything to go by, he has an 8 million euro release clause, and at the price would be a steal. He is fast, good crossing, reads the game well, and can play as a left winger in times of need. Juve have always been based on good wing backs, and this year should be no different. First it was Zambrotta and Thuram, then Chiellini and Zambrotta, we need another wing back for certain.
The next position i'd reinforce is central midfield. yes we have many players, yes Nocerino and Zanetti give us quantity in the middle of the park, but do they give us creativity? Not really. The most creative i've seen either is in the Lazio game, where Zanetti gave 2 exquisite passes from our half onto the foot of Del Piero who scored twice on the counter. I'd keep Zanetti in teh team cause he is the destroyer with great stamina. He reads the game and breaks down the opponents attacks, and doesn't get into people's bad books.
Nocerino, has a lot of spirit and might become a good player, but at the moment, is a luxury which our team can't afford, if he knew how to pass and create opportunites, i'd love him in our team, but he is there to break down and then pass the ball to Zanetti. If we aren't going to let Tiago play in his preferred position, we might as well buy someone new.
First name that comes to mind is Van der Vaart, to be honest, i only watched him in his Ajax days, where he was good. This type of player is certainly needed, whether Rafael is the player, i'm not sure, but i doubt we can find an AMC for less than 11 million sterling, who has played well everywhere he has gone, at least thats the impression i've got. An alternative, and cheaper solution, would be to play Nedved as AMC, and buy someone as a left winger(which is the next position i'm coming to), but with nedved's age and temper, it might not be the best choice.
A left winger, we need Nedved's replacement, no question about it. He is 35 i believe, yet he is the one who has the passion to keep running, but his legs might not be able to keep up with his passion for much longer. We should have signed a replacement at least 2 years ago, and molded him into the player we want and need. Instead they kept buying DMC's, so we're stuck with a 35 year old winger. The cheapest, and maybe best option would be to recall Giovinco from his loan at Empoli, but this could backfire by putting too much attention on the youngster, and when this happens it may ruin careers(just look at Francis Jeffers). Another option might be Drenthe who has been linked with us.
If we get these players, then I believe we might actually challenge for the title, but we'll prob end up with Sissoko and sell Tiago Boumsong and Almiron.
Reading those pages gave me a great laugh thank you all, our situation is truly a tragic one, quite laughable,
i have little to add to Andy's and Vinni's comments,
the more the times passes, i see more ppl repeating my words and expressing my feelings. I trust Juventuz common sense to draw some serious and mature conclusions after this game.
I have been positively surprised by Alan's comments and rate on my "favorite" Molinaro, i knew i was right about having fate on his reason.
But i still cant understand Dominic's blind faith on our material and that uber optimism, or he is just being sarcastic??
No reason to repeat my self for the 100 billionth time, we have great problems and no actions are taken to take care of them, because our noob managers cant even see them!
We wasted 30 millions on 2 midfielders, where we could have bought one,
we released Tudor and Kovac and spent almost 10 mil on Criscito,
while we offloaded Balza for the most useless player Juve ever had, for the last 5 years.
Without spending any more cash we already had the material in our property/disposal, to be in a much much better position than we are right now. (material wise)
The selection of material in every line of Juve command really suffers,
a lot! May it be the coach, the sports director, transfer chief or general manager, u name it,
they all suck!
I demand everyone responsible for that to be sucked ASAP,
Juve fans should protest and claim their heads, we need to put pressure on them and have them replaced, before they can harm our beloved club furthermore!
It has been painfully obvious for me at the beginning of the season,
not because i m delusional and a pessimist for no reason,
but because i had the courage to admit the blatanly obvious, no matter if that truth hurts our interest and any illusions and dreams, some of us had.
With the money and contracts we had available, any man with a common sense, could have done much better than the parody of the ppl who are in charge of our team now. Even if they had no clue about football and just a few limited managerial skills.
Our current managers, are not just totally clueless noobs and undoubtfully incompetent bunch of losers,
but they are seriously mentally retarted too.
Despite wasting our limited budget and any chances we ever had for any title,
right from the start of the season,
they ought to learn their job and improve eventually...
Even if they were as clueless, as i have expected, they should have learned of smth by now, just a few basic things about running a FC and making some basic choices that might help the team...but unfortunately, this is not the case,
these guys will build a Juve destined to fight for the 3-5 position, there wont be any improvement or a five year plan...
They lack the determination, the intention and elementary IQ to learn from their mistakes,
if this transfer window goes as bad as we suspect, expect our problems to multiply soon!
i have little to add to Andy's and Vinni's comments,
the more the times passes, i see more ppl repeating my words and expressing my feelings. I trust Juventuz common sense to draw some serious and mature conclusions after this game.
I have been positively surprised by Alan's comments and rate on my "favorite" Molinaro, i knew i was right about having fate on his reason.
But i still cant understand Dominic's blind faith on our material and that uber optimism, or he is just being sarcastic??
No reason to repeat my self for the 100 billionth time, we have great problems and no actions are taken to take care of them, because our noob managers cant even see them!
We wasted 30 millions on 2 midfielders, where we could have bought one,
we released Tudor and Kovac and spent almost 10 mil on Criscito,
while we offloaded Balza for the most useless player Juve ever had, for the last 5 years.
Without spending any more cash we already had the material in our property/disposal, to be in a much much better position than we are right now. (material wise)
The selection of material in every line of Juve command really suffers,
a lot! May it be the coach, the sports director, transfer chief or general manager, u name it,
they all suck!
I demand everyone responsible for that to be sucked ASAP,
Juve fans should protest and claim their heads, we need to put pressure on them and have them replaced, before they can harm our beloved club furthermore!
It has been painfully obvious for me at the beginning of the season,
not because i m delusional and a pessimist for no reason,
but because i had the courage to admit the blatanly obvious, no matter if that truth hurts our interest and any illusions and dreams, some of us had.
With the money and contracts we had available, any man with a common sense, could have done much better than the parody of the ppl who are in charge of our team now. Even if they had no clue about football and just a few limited managerial skills.
Our current managers, are not just totally clueless noobs and undoubtfully incompetent bunch of losers,
but they are seriously mentally retarted too.
Despite wasting our limited budget and any chances we ever had for any title,
right from the start of the season,
they ought to learn their job and improve eventually...
Even if they were as clueless, as i have expected, they should have learned of smth by now, just a few basic things about running a FC and making some basic choices that might help the team...but unfortunately, this is not the case,
these guys will build a Juve destined to fight for the 3-5 position, there wont be any improvement or a five year plan...
They lack the determination, the intention and elementary IQ to learn from their mistakes,
if this transfer window goes as bad as we suspect, expect our problems to multiply soon!
Cronios, i really hate it when i have to defend the board 
I'm far from being their fan and i'm certainly not delighted how they handled the mercato, but we mustn't be too harsh on them for last summer's mercato.
We had a very thin squad, limited finances and we needed minimum 8 new players. Their choices were 2 world class players or 7 good players. With 2 wc players our starting XI would have been better but in case of few injuries we'd have been screwed badly.
Looking from today's perspective it was a mistake not to buy Ribery with the money we spent on Tiago+Almiron and their wages but at the time Ribery signed for Bayern we were in very delicate situation, as explained above.
Also, lets not forget that players didn't feel their future is secure with Juve. We just came from a huge scandal that costed us money, sponsors, image, tittles, players. We couldn't offer a guarantee to the world class players that we'll fight for the scudetto, get a CL spot and the violence in Italian football mixed with Calciopoli forced players to look somewhere else rather than serie A.
Ribery would have probably chosen Bayern over Juve even if we tried to get him, just like Milito chose Barcelona over Juve.
Now in the winter it's very very hard to buy quality players. None of them leave their clubs in the middle of the season.
But there will be no excuses in the summer if they fail to bring at least 2 world class players. We have enough players in every position (talking about quantity only), we will play CL and we will probably have more money than we did last summer. We don't need 7 or 8 new players like last year. Now all we need is top quality and if they buy again 5 or 6 average players instead of 2 or 3 world class ones, then i'm joining Badass Devil's "I hope you die Secco" group
I'm far from being their fan and i'm certainly not delighted how they handled the mercato, but we mustn't be too harsh on them for last summer's mercato.
We had a very thin squad, limited finances and we needed minimum 8 new players. Their choices were 2 world class players or 7 good players. With 2 wc players our starting XI would have been better but in case of few injuries we'd have been screwed badly.
Looking from today's perspective it was a mistake not to buy Ribery with the money we spent on Tiago+Almiron and their wages but at the time Ribery signed for Bayern we were in very delicate situation, as explained above.
Also, lets not forget that players didn't feel their future is secure with Juve. We just came from a huge scandal that costed us money, sponsors, image, tittles, players. We couldn't offer a guarantee to the world class players that we'll fight for the scudetto, get a CL spot and the violence in Italian football mixed with Calciopoli forced players to look somewhere else rather than serie A.
Ribery would have probably chosen Bayern over Juve even if we tried to get him, just like Milito chose Barcelona over Juve.
Now in the winter it's very very hard to buy quality players. None of them leave their clubs in the middle of the season.
But there will be no excuses in the summer if they fail to bring at least 2 world class players. We have enough players in every position (talking about quantity only), we will play CL and we will probably have more money than we did last summer. We don't need 7 or 8 new players like last year. Now all we need is top quality and if they buy again 5 or 6 average players instead of 2 or 3 world class ones, then i'm joining Badass Devil's "I hope you die Secco" group
Honestly, a bunch of members here don´t deserve to be fans of this great team. What do you call this behaviour of tonight, insulting everything you can remember? Shame on you. Go support other teams which are winning easily at the moment if you can´t take this kind of performances from Juve. This season will be hard and frustrating, but we all firmly in the 3rd place, above all odds. Bunch of crybabeis and gloryhunters, we want Van der Vaart, Ronaldinho, Diego, nothing less. Boo-hoo. Get a grip. Show some support to your team. We didn´t play well but at least we are fighting and if we manage to fight out throughout this season and manage to get a CL spot, things cannot get but better.
Thank God there are some class posters here like Dominic, Lampard, Shyne, just to name a few. The others are not even worth to talk to.
Thank God there are some class posters here like Dominic, Lampard, Shyne, just to name a few. The others are not even worth to talk to.
BULLSHIT !!
More performances like tonight, and we can kiss 3rd place goodbye, and say hello to 5th
Nice to know that no one can criticise the team, we just have to accept things the way they are, otherwise you arent a true fan
I know myself and posters like Cronios and Andy havent been satisfied with our play, even when we've won
I am frustrated watching us struggle so much....
well i won't speak about the management because that discussion will take us away from the game.
We had many performances this season like these and especially away from home. Ranieri is always saying that we want to push for the scudetto but still the away performances are lacking and nothing has been done to change that. You want to be aiming for the scudetto then this is how its going to be.
Back to the game, i am just disappointed with the players as well as the coach.
First of all the coach. Ranieri was just outplayed tactically by Baldini. CR didn't prepare for this game at all, and that was just evident with the Tiago sub in the 2nd half. He was just running around like a headless chicken on the sideline not knowing how to break them down. Palladino and Iaquinta should've been introduced before and neddy moved to the center. He was insistent on playing with both zanetti and nocerino in the midfield for some reason, when putting neddy there at least in the closing stages would've been sufficient.
2nd the players:
Molinaro- I can't wait till freaking Andrade gets back to full fitness just so we can put chiellini back on the left. All his crosses didn't pass the first man. He wasn't adjusting his crosses over two halfs! He is just frustrating to watch, CR should just put him on a freaking strict training on crosses from today till wednesday.
Tiago- Vinni put it best, last night he was just a pussy. He the catania midfielders run all over him. He is getting the chances and he needs to take them and run. Last night he wasn't even working hard in the midfield.
Nocerino and zanetti were disappointing as well as they should've offered more support especially the latter.But they were happy to sit back instead of going forward.
Legro was a stand out and brazzo did in regards to runs with a couple of decent crosses( RB is his best position). Alex and neddy did fairly well too but i thought neddy made many wrong decisions.
We had many performances this season like these and especially away from home. Ranieri is always saying that we want to push for the scudetto but still the away performances are lacking and nothing has been done to change that. You want to be aiming for the scudetto then this is how its going to be.
Back to the game, i am just disappointed with the players as well as the coach.
First of all the coach. Ranieri was just outplayed tactically by Baldini. CR didn't prepare for this game at all, and that was just evident with the Tiago sub in the 2nd half. He was just running around like a headless chicken on the sideline not knowing how to break them down. Palladino and Iaquinta should've been introduced before and neddy moved to the center. He was insistent on playing with both zanetti and nocerino in the midfield for some reason, when putting neddy there at least in the closing stages would've been sufficient.
2nd the players:
Molinaro- I can't wait till freaking Andrade gets back to full fitness just so we can put chiellini back on the left. All his crosses didn't pass the first man. He wasn't adjusting his crosses over two halfs! He is just frustrating to watch, CR should just put him on a freaking strict training on crosses from today till wednesday.
Tiago- Vinni put it best, last night he was just a pussy. He the catania midfielders run all over him. He is getting the chances and he needs to take them and run. Last night he wasn't even working hard in the midfield.
Nocerino and zanetti were disappointing as well as they should've offered more support especially the latter.But they were happy to sit back instead of going forward.
Legro was a stand out and brazzo did in regards to runs with a couple of decent crosses( RB is his best position). Alex and neddy did fairly well too but i thought neddy made many wrong decisions.
A lot of foolish and shortsighted posts here, almost too much to respond to.
Wrong. You were one of those fools to say give Molinaro time and tried to excuse poor performances by saying that he gives a lot of effort. Like I said before, give me a shirt, I'll fucking try hard. Fact is, you were wrong.
And fact is, you're one of those fantasy land members who maybe has foresight, but doesn't ever show it. You're just a sugar-coater, Juventus apologist with no insight either, so why don't you grow a pair.
How is blaming Ranieri idiotic???
So you're actually saying to me that putting on Marchionni at half-time and waiting so long to put on Iaquinta while being down was a good idea? Are you saying that our side actually is playing good football right now, not resorting to hopeless long balls and having to rely on some refereeing error to tie a match against Catania? Are you saying that Ranieri isn't partly to blame for how poor HIS substitutions were?
I mean, come on. Players shoulder the blame from me and so does the manager. Afterall, he's the one who chooses the team, the tactics, etc, yet our tactics are pure shit and that is why we almost lost today. And our tactics have been the same all season long, consisting of straight 4-4-2's and long balls.
What do you have to say about the fact that Ranieri made our side more defensive at halftime, snoop? Does that make any sense whatsoever? Don't even try to justify that fact.
It's not about wanting players or calling for major signings, but it's about playing good football, using what we have at our disposal to compete, and actually looking like we have some hope for the coming years. But with the way we play nowadays it is too painful to see. We are playing worse football than what we did with Capello, so for people to sit here and say everything is fine is a complete farce. It's called having foresight.
Fools such as Lampard who sit there and use the fact we had 60% of the possession to sugar coat our performance are complacent fans who don't know anything about football, let alone Juventus. I think the people who really care about the side will admit when something is not right, when players are not good enough, when performances are not good enough, and when managers are not good enough. Fans have a right to express their opinions about managers, and yes, bash them if warranted.
I find it extremely hilarious that some members here insulted the hell out of Deschamps yet defend Ranieri to the highest extent of the paddle. What the fuck has Ranieri done for Juventus? Nowhere near as much as Deschamps, that's for sure. But good deeds are indeed forgotten. Ranieri is just the manager of Juventus, not some sort of fucking legend. He has to EARN his respect around here, but some people give it to him and others no matter what like a bunch of fools.
Yes, because I said that 
.
Look, all you post nowadays is emotional garbage. You offer no insight or any arguements, just a bunch of shouting, banalities and supposed witty remarks. Learn to relativate a little and step away from your computergame view of football.
.Look, all you post nowadays is emotional garbage. You offer no insight or any arguements, just a bunch of shouting, banalities and supposed witty remarks. Learn to relativate a little and step away from your computergame view of football.
And fact is, you're one of those fantasy land members who maybe has foresight, but doesn't ever show it. You're just a sugar-coater, Juventus apologist with no insight either, so why don't you grow a pair.
How is blaming Ranieri idiotic???
So you're actually saying to me that putting on Marchionni at half-time and waiting so long to put on Iaquinta while being down was a good idea? Are you saying that our side actually is playing good football right now, not resorting to hopeless long balls and having to rely on some refereeing error to tie a match against Catania? Are you saying that Ranieri isn't partly to blame for how poor HIS substitutions were?
I mean, come on. Players shoulder the blame from me and so does the manager. Afterall, he's the one who chooses the team, the tactics, etc, yet our tactics are pure shit and that is why we almost lost today. And our tactics have been the same all season long, consisting of straight 4-4-2's and long balls.
What do you have to say about the fact that Ranieri made our side more defensive at halftime, snoop? Does that make any sense whatsoever? Don't even try to justify that fact.
It's not about wanting players or calling for major signings, but it's about playing good football, using what we have at our disposal to compete, and actually looking like we have some hope for the coming years. But with the way we play nowadays it is too painful to see. We are playing worse football than what we did with Capello, so for people to sit here and say everything is fine is a complete farce. It's called having foresight.
Fools such as Lampard who sit there and use the fact we had 60% of the possession to sugar coat our performance are complacent fans who don't know anything about football, let alone Juventus. I think the people who really care about the side will admit when something is not right, when players are not good enough, when performances are not good enough, and when managers are not good enough. Fans have a right to express their opinions about managers, and yes, bash them if warranted.
I find it extremely hilarious that some members here insulted the hell out of Deschamps yet defend Ranieri to the highest extent of the paddle. What the fuck has Ranieri done for Juventus? Nowhere near as much as Deschamps, that's for sure. But good deeds are indeed forgotten. Ranieri is just the manager of Juventus, not some sort of fucking legend. He has to EARN his respect around here, but some people give it to him and others no matter what like a bunch of fools.
But that doesn't matter when we're looking at style, tactics, etc. Our style of play is God awful, just as it was under Capello, except worse. You know, a lot of people don't want to go down that road again, but here we are. More shitty football.
One of the reasons why I liked Ranieri at first is because he was good with new players and used different tactics, generally playing good football at Chelsea and Valencia. But he hasn't lived up to the past in that respect here at Juventus.
We're losing points fucking around with the same old shit.
One of the reasons why I liked Ranieri at first is because he was good with new players and used different tactics, generally playing good football at Chelsea and Valencia. But he hasn't lived up to the past in that respect here at Juventus.
We're losing points fucking around with the same old shit.