[Serie A] Bari 1-0 JUVENTUS (August 29th 2010) (23 Viewers)

[KB824]

But I just don't see how this can be used as an excuse for signing mediocre players and selling probably our best player. Diego isn't Baggio, that's for sure, but he didn't need to be sold either.

The players we are signing aren't even that young. Most of them are around 27, so it's not like we are building for the long-term here.

I can see how signing blue-collar players is somewhat Moggi-like from back in the day, but the problem is we already have mediocre players. We don't need any more. It makes no sense.

Its all about the money,bro. The Agnelli family was flush with cash back then. And also, take into consideration that the Juve youth system back then, and their penchant for scouting both inItaly and abroad was at one time the envy of practically every team in Europe.

Now, the cupboard is basically bare in the primavera sections, I can't remember the last time Juve have signed a young brazilian or south american to even their primavera squads. Juve, aside from the occasional major signing, always built from within. That was simply their way. Those times have certainly changed, and they could have reverted back to those days once Juve got out of Serie B, but they chose not to, and for that I put the blame solely on the shoulders of the previous regime.

Another thing to realize, and this is going to hurt some people when I say this, is that Juventus is Juventus in name only lately. Players no longer flock to come, to be a part of the history of the club. Now its all about what is in it for them, how much face time they can get on ESPN, or Sky, and how often they can be on television playing in the CL.

I agree that the plot is somewhat lost as we speak. however, I cannot place the blame of that on Marotta. He came in here to do a job, to rebuild the club from the bottom up, not exactly an enviable task when you are facing the pressures of having to live up to a name such as Juventus who quite frankly started to lose the plot back in 2006-2007, when they should have made the very tough decisions to sell off players that had been part of the fabric of the team that had brought a good amount of success in Serie A and some success in the CL. Yet they chose not to do it, for fear of , I don't know, not being able to advance out of Serie B??

What sense does that make? I am a patient person, as I've seen rebuilding projects happen in practically every team in sports that I follow.

 

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[Bjerknes]

Its all about the money,bro. The Agnelli family was flush with cash back then. And also, take into consideration that the Juve youth system back then, and their penchant for scouting both inItaly and abroad was at one time the envy of practically every team in Europe.

Now, the cupboard is basically bare in the primavera sections, I can't remember the last time Juve have signed a young brazilian or south american to even their primavera squads. Juve, aside from the occasional major signing, always built from within. That was simply their way. Those times have certainly changed, and they could have reverted back to those days once Juve got out of Serie B, but they chose not to, and for that I put the blame solely on the shoulders of the previous regime.

Another thing to realize, and this is going to hurt some people when I say this, is that Juventus is Juventus in name only lately. Players no longer flock to come, to be a part of the history of the club. Now its all about what is in it for them, how much face time they can get on ESPN, or Sky, and how often they can be on television playing in the CL.

I agree that the plot is somewhat lost as we speak. however, I cannot place the blame of that on Marotta. He came in here to do a job, to rebuild the club from the bottom up, not exactly an enviable task when you are facing the pressures of having to live up to a name such as Juventus who quite frankly started to lose the plot back in 2006-2007, when they should have made the very tough decisions to sell off players that had been part of the fabric of the team that had brought a good amount of success in Serie A and some success in the CL. Yet they chose not to do it, for fear of , I don't know, not being able to advance out of Serie B??

What sense does that make? I am a patient person, as I've seen rebuilding projects happen in practically every team in sports that I follow.

We could easily go to South America and sign a few good talents for less than Martinez's fee, but we don't do that. Since South America is probably the epicenter of flair and talent in the world's game, I'd be sending several scouts there for entire seasons. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a nobody. Obviously the plan in place is sound.

You said it yourself, it is indeed all about the money, that's why we have to spend it wisely. Spending it on mediocre players isn't my cup of tea. The only difference between Secco and Marotta is that one signed mediocre foreign players like Tiago and Almiron while the other signs mediocre Italians.

I understand completely why some would prefer the Italians.

 

[Adluc1]

Now, the cupboard is basically bare in the primavera sections, I can't remember the last time Juve have signed a young brazilian or south american to even their primavera squads. Juve, aside from the occasional major signing, always built from within. That was simply their way. Those times have certainly changed, and they could have reverted back to those days once Juve got out of Serie B, but they chose not to, and for that I put the blame solely on the shoulders of the previous regime.

I couldn't agree more. There has been a serious lack of patience in the rebuilding process, which has led to less than ideal acquisitions. Instead of starting from scratch and finding talent for acceptable prices and making them champions (Davids and Zidane, anyone?) we've spent an enormous amount of money on quick fix solutions to continue the illusion that somehow Juve are still Juve and nothing ever happened.

I would have taken a mid table finsih for the first 2 seasons back in Serie A if it meant building solid foundations patiently. We'd be in much better shape now.

 

[The Pado]

I actually started following the club back then, but whatever.

Serge and Pado, you can think I have no idea what I'm talking about because I'm young. But please tell that to Vinni, he probably remembers the history far better than this whiner and complainer.

I don't think that. You have been very honest and stated you've been Juventino since the 1998 Champions League Final defeat to real madrid. I don't care that you've not been a fan since 1920 or that you're under 30 yrs old. Just reminding you that it is not so long ago that Juve was in worse shape than now and slowly built up to the best in the world. It is the beginning of a new project. One match in and people are jumping out of windows. Last year sucked balls. Think of it as the final chapter in a by-gone era. This is new and were one match in.

 

[Hust]

Pado, Sergio, I was calling you guys, you didn't pick up...

Call my ass, I will pick up....slut.

 

[Hust]

I must say, it is nice to have some more optimists here (Sergio/Pado)...


My work is not in vain.

 

[The Pado]

I called your ass. You didn't pick up on the first ring, so I hung up and jerked off. I call back in 20 minutes.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

We could easily go to South America and sign a few good talents for less than Martinez's fee, but we don't do that. Since South America is probably the epicenter of flair and talent in the world's game, I'd be sending several scouts there for entire seasons. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a nobody. Obviously the plan in place is sound.

You said it yourself, it is indeed all about the money, that's why we have to spend it wisely. Spending it on mediocre players isn't my cup of tea. The only difference between Secco and Marotta is that one signed mediocre foreign players like Tiago and Almiron while the other signs mediocre Italians.

I understand completely why some would prefer the Italians.

not to mention no clear plans besides an "italian" juve, you re not whining you re criticizing, so if anything the charge ought to be overly criticizing, whining has an element of immaturity. The only immaturity at this point is not realizing after so many lessons learnt the hard way that we re once again fucking up big time; and i have lived through the second trap era and it wasnt pretty but nowhere near this ugly.

 

[Salvo]

It takes something to be a hardcore fan of the Brescias, the Wolverhamptons, and the Sienas of this world. It is all too easy to be crazy for Juventus, Man United, Real Madrid, and Inter. Are you afraid to suffer? Are you thinking about a new favorite club? Do you lack character? Fuck that noise! We are the Black & White army. No matter if we are first in Serie A or last in Serie B with a 30-point penalty, we are the true Juventus support. Forza Big Balls!

FUCKING THIS!!!

look i will admit, although i have been juventino all my life, i really started supporting this team around 2003-2004, i obviously watched most juve games before then but i cant really remember them, i was like 9-10 years old.

I went through serie b, i got up at 2am, 4 am, 6 am to watch every game we played in serie b, i would have done so even if i knew we couldnt get up to serie a, even if we were in serie c. you know what, never have i felt closer to the team then i did prior and during serie b, maybe its because i got older and really understood football but i dont care if we remain a mid table club forever (which we wont) i will still bleed black and white, whether it be black and white tears of joy or anguish, FORZA JUVE!

 

[Salvo]

I keep bringing it up because the whole "gel" thing is just an excuse. We've had a month of competitive matches before today with only Quag and Krasic not playing. So folks are acting like this a brand new team that's never seen a pitch before, and obviously that is wrong.

It's predictable stuff from this same crew who always try to find an excuse. Last year they said that Zacherroni needed time and then we'd get into the CL, right before we actually became worse than we were under Ferrara.

The fact of the matter is, if you have a good squad of players, you shouldn't be losing to Bari. I'm not going to accept the loss and find an excuse for it, we were poor and that's the end of it. We don't need time to gel to manage a draw with fucking Bari.

if you think it takes a night to make a good football team you have no idea, regardless inter drew to bologna, man city lost to sunderland they have far superior squads, in city case is it ok to say they need to gel? In inters case is it safe to say some can stumble (as they did last year) in the first game?

throw our situation in there and you have new faces, new coach, new ideas and new tactics, gelling takes time, if you cant see that you have no idea at all my friend.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I don't think that. You have been very honest and stated you've been Juventino since the 1998 Champions League Final defeat to real madrid. I don't care that you've not been a fan since 1920 or that you're under 30 yrs old. Just reminding you that it is not so long ago that Juve was in worse shape than now and slowly built up to the best in the world. It is the beginning of a new project. One match in and people are jumping out of windows. Last year sucked balls. Think of it as the final chapter in a by-gone era. This is new and were one match in.

It may have happened before, but what makes you think it will happen again? I don't think we can get by just by being named Juventus.

 

[The Pado]

It may have happened before, but what makes you think it will happen again? I don't think we can get by just by being named Juventus.

I'm not certain we will succeed again, I'm just saying that people should not say we are doomed after one match. This is a new project. Some smart people have a diificult job in rebuilding Juventus, but they seem to have an idea about how to do it.

 

[KB824]

I'm not certain we will succeed again, I'm just saying that people should not say we are doomed after one match. This is a new project. Some smart people have a diificult job in rebuilding Juventus, but they seem to have an idea about how to do it.

If not right now, then certainly by the time the UEFA Financial Fair Play laws get put into effect.

That is the one major advantage that Juve will have over the rest of Serie A. Not only are their books in order right now compared to other teams in the league, but once that stadium opens, and with the rules allowing teams to only spend as much as they make, they will have a clear advantage over everyone else in Italy.

You can't underestimate what owning one's own stadium means these days. It is the single largest revenue stream that is availabe to a squad. Luxury boxes galore bring in a ton of revenue.

This, more than anything, will have me very excited as a Juve supporter.

Why else did Inter spend so little in the transfer market this year? Was it because they were satisfied with their squad? There is nothing worse than a champion that remains stagnant from one year to the next.

They did it because they knew that they had to get their house in order within the next couple of years.

I can't wait for these finiancially irresponsible teams to get their comeuppance once and for all. This is going to hit them much harder than they realize if they are not in compliance.

 

[KB824]

I couldn't agree more. There has been a serious lack of patience in the rebuilding process, which has led to less than ideal acquisitions. Instead of starting from scratch and finding talent for acceptable prices and making them champions (Davids and Zidane, anyone?) we've spent an enormous amount of money on quick fix solutions to continue the illusion that somehow Juve are still Juve and nothing ever happened.

I would have taken a mid table finsih for the first 2 seasons back in Serie A if it meant building solid foundations patiently. We'd be in much better shape now.

A lot of people would have. The people who saw this as an opportunity to get away from the haphazard spending that got them in such a serious financial predicament in the first place. It could have been a revolution of historic proprtions. There wouldn't be cries of why Giovinco was constantly loanded out, hwo Criscito was never given a fair shake, how Bojinov could have had the chance to become a pillar of the new Juventus.

The previous regime panicked. Plain and simple, they panicked. They caved into the pressure of what happens when you walk into Juve headquarters and you see the CL and Uefa Trophies on they walls, the 29 scudetti, and the protraits of the legends.

They let nostalgia get the best of them

 

[icemaη]

A lot of people would have. The people who saw this as an opportunity to get away from the haphazard spending that got them in such a serious financial predicament in the first place. It could have been a revolution of historic proprtions. There wouldn't be cries of why Giovinco was constantly loanded out, hwo Criscito was never given a fair shake, how Bojinov could have had the chance to become a pillar of the new Juventus.

The previous regime panicked. Plain and simple, they panicked. They caved into the pressure of what happens when you walk into Juve headquarters and you see the CL and Uefa Trophies on they walls, the 29 scudetti, and the protraits of the legends.

They let nostalgia get the best of them

But didn't the previous regime do a pretty good job until they decided to give the coaching job to Ferrara? We overachieved for two years after we came back from B. Our books were still in order barring a couple of millions on the Melo purchase. This Juventus side didn't need a revolution, it just needed some order. Now we have a squad full of new players who will or will not be here next season because most of them are on loans. We brought in a coach who has had absolutely no success until last season and who isn't even young so that a gamble could be taken.

 

[KB824]

But didn't the previous regime do a pretty good job until they decided to give the coaching job to Ferrara? We overachieved for two years after we came back from B. Our books were still in order barring a couple of millions on the Melo purchase. This Juventus side didn't need a revolution, it just needed some order. Now we have a squad full of new players who will or will not be here next season because most of them are on loans. We brought in a coach who has had absolutely no success until last season and who isn't even young so that a gamble could be taken.

Yes, they overachieved for two years, but anyone could see that the clock was ticking on the corps of players that were here in the beginning of the decade. And that is my point of contention. There were ties that should have been severed once they were demoted, and it didn't happen. And then look at last year when everything came to a head.

 

[Alen]

There is obviously a long term plan behind everything that happened this summer. Thinking throughout everything that happened and looking for a reason behind everything, looking at the numbers, looking at the timing, I can see a plan that could work out.
But I see too many things that were being done on the way. It's almost as if our directors had a plan, a good plan, but an X instead of a concrete name of a player. Reducing the wage bill, getting players on loan so they won't necessarily occupy a squad place next summer...I believe that it was pre-planned. Since May or June this was planned and I think they planned to do most of the job at the end of the transfer window for various reasons.

In theory this actually looks interesting. Good dealings in the next 2-3 summers, and considering everything that Sergio mentioned above, can put us back on top. But in practice it will probably be much more tricky. Many of the dealings in late August were made in panic, out of desperation, and we ended up with a weaker team than what I think the board expected to have by the start of the season. This current team we have might easily miss out on Europe next summer and prevent the board from proceeding with the original plan. In such case everything can happen, including a complete mess.

 

[KB824]

There is obviously a long term plan behind everything that happened this summer. Thinking throughout everything that happened and looking for a reason behind everything, looking at the numbers, looking at the timing, I can see a plan that could work out.
But I see too many things that were being done on the way. It's almost as if our directors had a plan, a good plan, but an X instead of a concrete name of a player. Reducing the wage bill, getting players on loan so they won't necessarily occupy a squad place next summer...I believe that it was pre-planned. Since May or June this was planned and I think they planned to do most of the job at the end of the transfer window for various reasons.

In theory this actually looks interesting. Good dealings in the next 2-3 summers, and considering everything that Sergio mentioned above, can put us back on top. But in practice it will probably be much more tricky. Many of the dealings in late August were made in panic, out of desperation, and we ended up with a weaker team than what I think the board expected to have by the start of the season. This current team we have might easily miss out on Europe next summer and prevent the board from proceeding with the original plan. In such case everything can happen, including a complete mess.

Let's take a good look at the 4 players who were actually purchased outright, and allow me to give a critique on each one, as well as their transfer figures.

Bonucci (23 years old)- Total of 15.5 million involving cash and the outright purchase of Criscito for the remaining 50% for 6 million and the co-ownershiop of Almiron of 2.5 million. Juve was in dire need of a young centre back, and Bonucci was part of a tandem that led Bari to a sterling defensive record last year. I think that everyone can agree that he is a defender of very high potential, and I haven't seen many people complain about this purchase.

Krasic (26 years old)- 15 million. A lot of people seem to be very excited about him and what he can bring to the table,especially as a winger was a crying need. I haven't seen very much of him, but I did like what I saw in his 45 minutes.

Martinez (27 years old) - 12 million. This is the one that a lot of people seem to get hung up about, especially the amount paid for him. However, I like him. I'm not absolutely enamored with him like I am with Aquilani, but I do like him. He can play either wing position in a 4-4-2, and can be very effective as a forward, as evidenced last year with Catania's strike force of he, Maxi Lopez, and Mascara. I think he's versatile, and he will surpise a lot of people. Scored 11 goals in 29 matches last year while playing multiple positions and only an injury prevented him from going to the world cup.

Storari (33 years old) 4.5 million. Forget the guy's age for a second. the fact is, he's a very good keeper, and with Buffon's constant injury struggles, he was an absolute necessity for this team. A far better option than Chimenti could have ever been. I have no issues with the signing.


The total amount of the loans for Quag, Aquilani, Motta, Traore, Lanzafame, Rinaudo, and Pepe total 9.45 million for this year, with the most expensive player, if Juve decide to purchase him is Aquialni at 16 million. If he plays as if he is worth every penny, wouldn't that be considered a good deal, when you consider that they will have already had him at Juve for a full season?


So, 56.45 million for 11 new players to the squad, with future money, if they decide to keep all 7 of the players on loan, being an additional 47.25 million next year.

However, unless all of them play up to or above expectations, that not all of them will be back next year

 

[Vinman]

I'm sorry, but no long term plans should include overrated players like Pepe and Martinez, as well as others like Amauri and Marchisio

 

[Nicholas]

How much did we get for sales aswell?