Serie A 2021-22 (35 Viewers)
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What are the terms in that Ramsey deal? We're most probably still paying a majority of his wages, so obviously you can at times move these kind of players if you're willing to make a deal that is financially suboptimal. However you can't just unilaterally get out of a contractual obligation, so it doesn't really matter how hard you work if the player is unwilling to move somewhere else to potentially earn less.
Also your argument about how the wage bill is an accurate indicator of the quality of a team is flawed. That argument assumes that the player's quality correlates with his wage and we know that isn't always true. Bigger and richer teams simply pay more to their players than smaller teams. Bernardeschi gets more playing for Juve than he'd get for playing for Fiorentina, Lingard gets more playing for ManU than he'd get for playing for Burnley and so on. Clearly players are not simply paid based on their ability alone, the size of the organisation they work for plays a massive role.
Also your argument about how the wage bill is an accurate indicator of the quality of a team is flawed. That argument assumes that the player's quality correlates with his wage and we know that isn't always true. Bigger and richer teams simply pay more to their players than smaller teams. Bernardeschi gets more playing for Juve than he'd get for playing for Fiorentina, Lingard gets more playing for ManU than he'd get for playing for Burnley and so on. Clearly players are not simply paid based on their ability alone, the size of the organisation they work for plays a massive role.
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Didn't really say that, that's word twisting. I suggested that the financial capability (wage bill) shows the potential of your future team. Atalanta have hit their glass ceiling, they can't go higher than what they've done, there's very little room for them to be run even better than right now. Juventus have huge potential not to only be the best in our league but to also compete in Europe like Chelsea or Liverpool have done with similar (albeit slightly larger) resources, so far we're getting very little out of our huge resources this season and the previous one.
I also disagree about how bigger teams have to pay a larger salary than other teams to the same player. The two examples you listed have chosen to do so, but no one obliged them to do so and obviously it's a poor choice on the clubs part. I understand Russian or Qatar or MLS teams overpaying elite players to compensate for the lack of quality of the local league and other factors, no one will willingly choose RPL over EPL. However the same reasons don't apply to big teams like Juventus or ManUtd, there's nothing wrong with signing Locatelli and giving him a 2.5m salary he also might get in Lazio or Napoli, you don't have to compensate him extra for choosing Juventus.
We really don't see the same phenomena in NBA, no? If anything, big teams might even pay less to the same player, as players actually want to win titles, compete at the last stages of the knockouts and build their legacy.
I also disagree about how bigger teams have to pay a larger salary than other teams to the same player. The two examples you listed have chosen to do so, but no one obliged them to do so and obviously it's a poor choice on the clubs part. I understand Russian or Qatar or MLS teams overpaying elite players to compensate for the lack of quality of the local league and other factors, no one will willingly choose RPL over EPL. However the same reasons don't apply to big teams like Juventus or ManUtd, there's nothing wrong with signing Locatelli and giving him a 2.5m salary he also might get in Lazio or Napoli, you don't have to compensate him extra for choosing Juventus.
We really don't see the same phenomena in NBA, no? If anything, big teams might even pay less to the same player, as players actually want to win titles, compete at the last stages of the knockouts and build their legacy.
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I definitely agree that we could and should have used our recourses better. However those mistakes were already done and it takes time to fix those issues, you often have to wait for the bad contracts to expire. I think essentially we then agree that our wage bill does not in any accurate way reflect the quality of this team?
Also I didn't say "bigger teams have to pay a bigger salary", I said "they simply pay more to their players", which is true. When was the last time a player moved from a lesser team to a bigger one and his wage was reduced or even remained the same? That simply does not happen in football.
I definitely agree that we could and should have used our recourses better. However those mistakes were already done and it takes time to fix those issues, you often have to wait for the bad contracts to expire. I think essentially we then agree that our wage bill does not in any accurate way reflect the quality of this team?
Also I didn't say "bigger teams have to pay a bigger salary", I said "they simply pay more to their players", which is true. When was the last time a player moved from a lesser team to a bigger one and his wage was reduced or even remained the same? That simply does not happen in football.
Again, you are completely ignoring that we have been collecting points at a higher level than every side bar Inter since week 4. And we have the same number of points as Inter now since then, albeit they have a game in hand.
Did you honestly think we would lose Ronaldo after matchday 1, after prepping all preseason as though we would have him, which means focusing much of our attacking play on creating chances for him, and this loss wouldn’t effect us at all? For real? That’s pretty naive. Or delusional. Just one match into the Vlahovic era and we can already see what a proper goalscoring striker does for us by being a focal point for chance creation.
I’d say the responsibility for us not being in the scudetto race falls on Tootsie for massively weakening the squad over a couple year period, and the new management for bungling the Ronaldo situation this summer. They did a great job fixing that in January but the damage had already been done.
Did you honestly think we would lose Ronaldo after matchday 1, after prepping all preseason as though we would have him, which means focusing much of our attacking play on creating chances for him, and this loss wouldn’t effect us at all? For real? That’s pretty naive. Or delusional. Just one match into the Vlahovic era and we can already see what a proper goalscoring striker does for us by being a focal point for chance creation.
I’d say the responsibility for us not being in the scudetto race falls on Tootsie for massively weakening the squad over a couple year period, and the new management for bungling the Ronaldo situation this summer. They did a great job fixing that in January but the damage had already been done.
that's a good point and is worth noting. we completely fucked up the first couple of games, but since then we're on an acceptable pace. this is the table since matchday 5:
i wish we started to beat top4 teams and score more regularly. the quality of our game is also far from satisfying. but the latest results are nothing to bitch about.
i wish we started to beat top4 teams and score more regularly. the quality of our game is also far from satisfying. but the latest results are nothing to bitch about.
Yes, we agree that we squander our resources. However we might disagree on having to wait for the bad contracts to expire - loaning Ramsey, even if we cover part of the massive salary, shows that every player on our squad is movable, he was by far the worst one in our squad. If we worked towards that, I don't think we couldn't find suitors for Rabiot f.e., someone would probably place a bet on him.
In regards to the bold part - true and retarded. Great example of ripple effect, which is why I'm hoping we offer Dybala a reasonable salary or it'll impact every negotiation going forward.
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You sound like Galliani man, that's why I'm completely ignoring it.
In regards to the bold part - true and retarded. Great example of ripple effect, which is why I'm hoping we offer Dybala a reasonable salary or it'll impact every negotiation going forward.
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You sound like Galliani man, that's why I'm completely ignoring it.
Yes, we agree that we squander our resources. However we might disagree on having to wait for the bad contracts to expire - loaning Ramsey, even if we cover part of the massive salary, shows that every player on our squad is movable, he was by far the worst one in our squad. If we worked towards that, I don't think we couldn't find suitors for Rabiot f.e., someone would probably place a bet on him.
In regards to the bold part - true and retarded. Great example of ripple effect, which is why I'm hoping we offer Dybala a reasonable salary or it'll impact every negotiation going forward.
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You sound like Galliani man, that's why I'm completely ignoring my it.
In regards to the bold part - true and retarded. Great example of ripple effect, which is why I'm hoping we offer Dybala a reasonable salary or it'll impact every negotiation going forward.
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You sound like Galliani man, that's why I'm completely ignoring my it.
If you want to be delusional and pretend Ronaldo leaving that late and without a replacement for his goals wasn’t going to effect the start to our season, by all means go ahead. But let’s drop the conversation then, because it’s pointless. So no further replies on this nonsense.
I'm not pretending it didn't affect our season. Go back and read what I wrote - imo the blame for our current position in the table is shared between mgmt (past and present), Allegri and the squad, pretty sure that also includes the Ronaldo fiasco.
What we do apparently disagree on is considering Ronaldo fiasco to be the source of all of the problems at our club, I'd like to think we could've done much better in the past mercatos, we could've corrected a lot more of those mistakes this summer, Allegri also made some really poor choices and some players also performed way below the level of an elite footballer. It's a team effort and I don't think Allegri gets to escape the blame here, if Juventus records results like home loss to Empoli or Sassuolo, a lot more things went wrong than lacking a good striker.
Just to be sure which table we're talking about, it's this one, with all the matchdays in it
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But that's not a good approach. It's ok to keep a 1.5m player around if he's still somewhat useful like Buffon was, even 2.5m I guess would be ok, definitely not top of the priority list.
But how can you have the best paid mid (or one of the best paid mids?) in Serie A in Rabiot and continue to justify keeping him just because he's somewhat useful. Or A.Sandro, the best paid fullback (again, not sure, but probably) in the league, who doesn't even make a list of top20 best performing fullbacks in Serie A. Even in our team he's like in 5th place between our fullbacks and that's just because we only have 5 fullbacks, if we had more, I'm sure he'd find a way to suck more than them. Dump them however you can, they're not an asset, they're a liability. We have a massive financial advantage over Inter, not to talk about Napoli, Milan, Atalanta and our laziness to act is really costing us here.
What we do apparently disagree on is considering Ronaldo fiasco to be the source of all of the problems at our club, I'd like to think we could've done much better in the past mercatos, we could've corrected a lot more of those mistakes this summer, Allegri also made some really poor choices and some players also performed way below the level of an elite footballer. It's a team effort and I don't think Allegri gets to escape the blame here, if Juventus records results like home loss to Empoli or Sassuolo, a lot more things went wrong than lacking a good striker.
Just to be sure which table we're talking about, it's this one, with all the matchdays in it
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But that's not a good approach. It's ok to keep a 1.5m player around if he's still somewhat useful like Buffon was, even 2.5m I guess would be ok, definitely not top of the priority list.
But how can you have the best paid mid (or one of the best paid mids?) in Serie A in Rabiot and continue to justify keeping him just because he's somewhat useful. Or A.Sandro, the best paid fullback (again, not sure, but probably) in the league, who doesn't even make a list of top20 best performing fullbacks in Serie A. Even in our team he's like in 5th place between our fullbacks and that's just because we only have 5 fullbacks, if we had more, I'm sure he'd find a way to suck more than them. Dump them however you can, they're not an asset, they're a liability. We have a massive financial advantage over Inter, not to talk about Napoli, Milan, Atalanta and our laziness to act is really costing us here.
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So what are you suggesting then? Send them away at any cost and keep paying large/some part of their salaries while they are on loan at somewhere else? Then you probably pay a transfer fee for a new player and a full salary of that new player. That added amortisation plus the wage/amortisation of the player on loan just means that you might have increased your costs, not lowered them. It's not about "laziness" to act, it's about what is feasible and actually financially beneficial for the club.
The goal should be to not repeat those mistakes and eventually we'll have a healthier wage bill on our hands. Getting rid of bad contracts isn't as trivial as you make it sound.
The goal should be to not repeat those mistakes and eventually we'll have a healthier wage bill on our hands. Getting rid of bad contracts isn't as trivial as you make it sound.
The merda at FIF are scared of us now 
https://forzainterforums.com/index.php?threads/italian-serie-a-2021-2022.15474/page-165#post-2066405
https://forzainterforums.com/index.php?threads/italian-serie-a-2021-2022.15474/page-165#post-2066405
The merda at FIF are scared of us now
https://forzainterforums.com/index.php?threads/italian-serie-a-2021-2022.15474/page-165#post-2066405
https://forzainterforums.com/index.php?threads/italian-serie-a-2021-2022.15474/page-165#post-2066405
There aren't that many teams that are willing to pay 6-7 million salaries to players in general, so I do think moving them is quite difficult. Letting Sandro go for free would be a loss on the books, I'm almost certain the management prefers to have him for one more year over making a loss on him. No way we would let Rabiot walk for free while he still has a contract here. Unless we get decent offers for them, they are going to stay here until their contracts run out.
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