Sergio Agüero - ST - Atletico Madrid (74 Viewers)

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Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
@Azzurri7: If we get Lichtsteiner, and that deal won't depend on any big move, our defense is ok for the third. Now, would you get a guy like Rolando knowing that it wouldn't allow us to get Kun?
Lich is good player, someone like him or Riise is what we need for our full-backs, not Mottas or Cassanis.

Damn, not even in chosing defenders Marotta is good, but you can still apply that question to a better CB, imagining that Marotta would be capable to track one. Plus, we shouldn't burn Bonucci already. And Sorensen can turn out to be a surprise, afterall.
Agreed about Sorensen's part. We can only grow up the kid to be a better player. I wont bum Bonucci, it's just that I don't trust him yet as our CB starter.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Abate and Antonini are probably not world-class players yet but they're growing. And lets not forget Milan have Nesta and Silva. We have Chiellini-Bonucci (a couple that can not pass the ball to save their lives).

Italy is not Spain, Serie A is very tactical league with lots of ins and outs. You can't rely on your upfronts if you have weak defensive line.
i agree, and i allways claimed a great team is build from the back.
bonucci can pass a ball, but he needs confidence

Chiellini is on par with silva, has more potential. all who disagree watch the 2008 quarterfinal where he silenced spain's attack. yeah, he's that good.

serie a is indeed very tactical, but then look at what milan did, and dont forget we arent playing midweek games.
 

Nenz

Senior Member
Apr 17, 2008
10,472
Firstly, you talk as if you think we will stop all spending and reinforcing with the purchase of Kun. Not sure what makes you think we will not continue to fix the defense?

Secondly, the lack of WC fullbacks is certainly a problem, teams will rip us off to get them away. Not to mention, these so called WC fullbacks all play for clubs that pretty much have a shot at winning trophies all season long, we can't offer that.

Thirdly, if you are seriously OK with Quag, Matri, Toni, and Ale there is no way in hell that will get us a top 3 finish...NO WAY man, so having WC fullbacks will certainly help us concede less but they will not guarantee clean sheets anymore than they would guarantee 3rd place.

Fourthly, while teams like Milan/Inter/Roma/Napoli continue to upgrade their teams with CL money, we will essentially making our selves less lethal. Sure, we would have a sturdy backline and that's all fine and dandy but how is a nice defense going to help us unluck the opposition and create chances? It's already been proven that you shut Krasic down you shut our offense down. The quartet you mentioned can't do it IMO (again, its just my opinion, certainly I'm not saying it as factual as it might come across)

Fifthly, remember when we signed DP a long time ago? Look at how long he has been giving this club wins after wins, goals after goals, assists after assists. We have the opportunity (distant yes I know), to bring a player that can do that for the next 10 years or more...someone to redefine this club just as Ale did. Next year we won't have that opportunity and we will be left with a very limp attack...maybe bring a WC striker next year but no one to work off with. Trez wouldn't have been who he was without that legendary partnership with Ale. We need that for an attack, just as we need good full backs. Both are important equally(again, just my IMO and how I think tactically)

Sixthly, Possession. I know you all hear me say that and wonder how that related to conceding. Well, I just have a gut feeling I guess that if we were able to control the flow of the game, we control the chances against our goal as well. If we can't keep the ball and our defense always plays long balls, then we will continue to see endless counter attacks, etc. Fix the midfield, get us a WC threat up top, and new full backs and you will have a fantastic team. But, just as the FB situation can't be ignored, either can buying a player like Sanchez or Kun.

Lastly, Kun would be the best option for us but if we have to pass for whatever reason then I'd be happy with Alexis though I feel Kun would bring us up so many more levels. Regardless of the player, one of them should be brought as a replacement for Ale. Our fans know it's Ale's last seaosn, well full season anyways and this club deserves to have a player that can create that spark and connection that Ale has done for so many years.

:nervous:
Firstly, the acquisition of Kun for 45M will not allow us to buy any defenders good enough. Ziegler for free and Beck are upgrades but barely and that is directly due to big spending up front.

To your fourth point, that is exactly what I disagree with. Having a solid defense is 'all fine and dandy'? Its not all fine and dandy is essential to win games and that's proven in our season where we had many draws in which we scored. What do you think fullbacks just defend or something? Had there been a good right back Krasic might have been ticking all season long. But no we bought a shit one and he got double teamed with no need for the opposition defense to try and cover our right back. Two classy wing backs and a world class left back with Matri and Quag upfront would still score heavily IMO and be far more defensively sound. Those full backs and a left winger are going to be essential in a 4-2-4.

To your sixth point. What do you think makes you keep possession? A good center midfield is what's most important to keep possession. Good full backs would be holding the ball and pressing down on the opposition more than a SS would. Del Piero can hold the ball, but that isn't always his role.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
fucking spot on, Ahmed.

A coach that knows how to organize a defense is an added bonus. +rep
One thing i heard often about conte, apart from his style of play, is that he has much attention for the defence.

if he can fix the defence like ranieri did, bring his winning mentality into the team(what most expirienced coaches expect im to do), he'll do very well
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
i agree, and i allways claimed a great team is build from the back.
bonucci can pass a ball, but he needs confidence

Chiellini is on par with silva, has more potential. all who disagree watch the 2008 quarterfinal where he silenced spain's attack. yeah, he's that good.

serie a is indeed very tactical, but then look at what milan did, and dont forget we arent playing midweek games.
Chiellini will never be half as good as Silva if he doesn't improve his game. Our CB's should learn how to pass and have vision, feed our midfielders with passes, just like what Vidic-Rio do, Puyol-Pique, Silva-Nesta, Samuel-Lucio. Lynching or striking the ball to the moon whenever you're under pressure gives me lot of signs about Chiellini and Bonucci.
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
Firstly, the acquisition of Kun for 45M will not allow us to buy any defenders good enough. Ziegler for free and Beck are upgrades but barely and that is directly due to big spending up front.

To your fourth point, that is exactly what I disagree with. Having a solid defense is 'all fine and dandy'? Its not all fine and dandy is essential to win games and that's proven in our season where we had many draws in which we scored. What do you think fullbacks just defend or something? Had there been a good right back Krasic might have been ticking all season long. But no we bought a shit one and he got double teamed with no need for the opposition defense to try and cover our right back. Two classy wing backs and a world class left back with Matri and Quag upfront would still score heavily IMO and be far more defensively sound. Those full backs and a left winger are going to be essential in a 4-2-4.

To your sixth point. What do you think makes you keep possession? A good center midfield is what's most important to keep possession. Good full backs would be holding the ball and pressing down on the opposition more than a SS would. Del Piero can hold the ball, but that isn't always his role.
Thank you. +rep
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
Hus,

1- You seriously think we'd spend almost 50m on Aguero and reinforce our defense? With 50m, we can buy two excellent LB and RB and maybe get Giovinco back. Better than paying 50m for Aguero and squeezing ourselves with no much options left. Because it's pretty clear for me that once we pay 50m for Aguero we will not throw another 50m for two defenders at the back.

2- Are you saying we are a team that can attract Aguero who's already a big name but we can't attract a WC full-backs? :confused:

3- With Giovinco back. Quag, Matri, Giovinco Ale and Toni are more than okay to compete with any big team. (I've already seen what an inform Quag and Matri are capable of and I'm more than happy to have them).
Rab-daddy-mac,

1.) I don't think we will, but if we did (which we should try) I think Ziegler and Licht is a big step in the right direction. Not sure about Beck just yet. And which good fullbacks in such short demand the last few years, what clubs would even be willing to listen to an offer from us anyways. 50m on Kun, Ziegler for free, Licht for 10m this year then next year we drop bank on FBs because we will have already nailed our midfield in place and our offense...then all we have to do is fix our defense if it really needs it still. We won't have the ability to sign kun or sanchez next year because a club will buy them this summer.

2.) I'm saying we are a team that is going to find it very difficult to get WC FBs because they aren't in high supply right now, everyone needs them. Certainly no one in Italy has them and the ones that do will not give them to us, same goes for other clubs in other countries. We aren't going for CL final this year mate, we need a top 3 and a smart coach that knows how to defend and organize it can well do it with what we have now...plus Licht will only help. Look at Ahmeds example with Ranieri. We had Trez/DP/Neddy/Camo all great attacking players, and very weak full backs...now look at our team compared to what we used to have and its no coincidence we struggle to win.

3.) I'd love Gio back but that is just as likely to happen as Kun/Sanchez coming. You don't know Quag will be the same, its going to take him time to get his legs back as well after an injury like that and a long summer break. Toni/Ale are another year older as well...and who knows what will happen with Amauri/IQ
 

Gian

COME HOME MOGGI
Apr 12, 2009
17,803
doesnt chelsea tend to play ivanovic as a centre back ?

and those names dont impress me, heck defensively, they arent much ahead of eighter ziegler or licht

I've seen him as a RB a couple of times, looked pretty darn good. I think he'll stay as a RB, Luiz has come in the center with Terry.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Chiellini will never be half as good as Silva if he doesn't improve his game. Our CB's should learn how to pass and have vision, feed our midfielders with passes, just like what Vidic-Rio do, Puyol-Pique, Silva-Nesta, Samuel-Lucio. Lynching or striking the ball to the moon whenever you're under pressure gives me lot of signs about Chiellini and Bonucci.
tells me more about lack of coaching then about the players themselves.

bonucci is known to have a nice technique for a defender, yet i havent seen him use it at juventus.


anyways, ziegler and licht are good fullbacks, and you underrate them
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
Ivanovic
Sagna
Lahm
yep and which team do you think would be willing to let them go knowing full well there isn't anyone out there to replace them? There just aren't any FBs available right now but there are two WC SS's that we could get...but lets pass on them and "try" to convince a club to sell a player that they won't be able to replace for a couple years. :sergio:
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
I've seen him as a RB a couple of times, looked pretty darn good. I think he'll stay as a RB, Luiz has come in the center with Terry.
true that, but like with most so called "world class" fullbacks, this is one we cannot afford


we should start with this :


what realistic target can we get for fullback, thats significantly better then ziegler or licht, that justifies ~15 or more million ?
 
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