Sebastian Giovinco (85 Viewers)
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All so true, managers need more balls. Yes DP is a legend but if we have better options he better sit his ass on that bench. Giggs, Scholes etc are more then happy to and so should DP. Italian legends are spoiled beyond comprehension case in point: Totti. 
Using Del Piero as an example isn't helping your argument to be honest, and Del Piero has also proved continuously to be one of our most effective players. Likewise the comparison to Giggs and Scholes, who still make an impact at the top level.
At least Andy was reasonable here and used a comparison with Lanzafame, Martinez and Pepe. Direct comparisons who all have to very much prove themselves at Juventus. Del Piero has to prove nothing.
Thanks Red 
Didn't realise it was a crime to get the games mixed up! Against Chelsea he showed that he can take the physical play that is notorious of the English teams. The problem is that Ranieri used his size and lack of defensive capabilities to continuously bench him.
Ferrara just didn't have the stones to bench DP when clearly the 4-2-3-1 was the best and most balanced option with the players at his disposal last season.
& Zacc.....
Didn't realise it was a crime to get the games mixed up! Against Chelsea he showed that he can take the physical play that is notorious of the English teams. The problem is that Ranieri used his size and lack of defensive capabilities to continuously bench him.
Ferrara just didn't have the stones to bench DP when clearly the 4-2-3-1 was the best and most balanced option with the players at his disposal last season.
& Zacc.....
So Giovinco is a better option than Del Piero now
Using Del Piero as an example isn't helping your argument to be honest, and Del Piero has also proved continuously to be one of our most effective players. Likewise the comparison to Giggs and Scholes, who still make an impact at the top level.
At least Andy was reasonable here and used a comparison with Lanzafame, Martinez and Pepe. Direct comparisons who all have to very much prove themselves at Juventus. Del Piero has to prove nothing.
Using Del Piero as an example isn't helping your argument to be honest, and Del Piero has also proved continuously to be one of our most effective players. Likewise the comparison to Giggs and Scholes, who still make an impact at the top level.
At least Andy was reasonable here and used a comparison with Lanzafame, Martinez and Pepe. Direct comparisons who all have to very much prove themselves at Juventus. Del Piero has to prove nothing.
1. Someone mentioned that Giovinco was not a striker, so his scoring rate was not poor for a midfielder
-Giovinco is not a striker/forward, but he is no real midfielder neither.
People who defends Giovinco say that Messi doesn't defend. Actually Messi is incredible in pressing and always tries to get the ball back when he loses the ball. Giovinco doesn't do this or hasn't the ability to.
b. When Giovinco is running with the ball, it's not easy for the opposite defender to knock him off the ball. However, when he is in a low tempo, he is very very prone to lose the ball, which is the more severe problem than the so called "defending" & "tracking back" one, IMHO. For instance, in the Champion's League match against Bate which ended 2-2, Giovinco was knocked off the ball on the right side and the same Bate player made a counter attack and resulted in goal. The second goal of them was something similar. Giovinco made two assists and barely made up for the loss besides Iaquinta was more than effecient that day.
Giovinco always has to play in a high tempo due to this defect. Can't control the tempo. Loses the ball if he slows down. A midfielder is not like this. Iniesta doesn't score many goals neither, but he can control the ball in any situation, he can also defend very well.
My point is that if Giovinco can't do the works of a midfielder, to make up, he has to score at least as many goals as a second striker. He is a striker for what he can do on the pitch.
He scored 6 goals in Empoli. Pro-Giovinco blame Empoli for being poor. He scored 4 goals in 30 U-21 games so Italy U-21 was poor? Actually they were one of the best sides not to mention they were in the same group with teams such as Faroe Island. The 4 goals Giovinco scored: 1 freekick against Ivory Coast (I give credit for this. His freekick is quite good), 1 wonder goal scored against Honduras (again credit. it's beautiful), another goal against Ivory Coast alla Muntari today against Genoa mainly due to goalkeeper's fault and 1 goal he made a mistake with the kick and it entered (lol, in Juve he also scored once when he kicked the ball wrongly), So he scored like 1 non-freekick goal in 30 matches, playing full time as the team's core. That's too poor...
2. I watched several matches of Empoli. My impression.
Empoli as a team whose goal was to remain in Serie A played completely different than a team such as Juve. Take one match against Roma in which Giovinco played good for example, Empoli defended by 10. Giovinco was the only one who didn't defend actually. Most of the time, Roma was attacking and all the Empoli players was on the other side of the pitch except Giovinco who remained near Roma's penalty area. Occasionally Empoli made some counter attacks and Giovinco backed a little to get the ball. There was far more space for Giovinco than in Juve. A team like Juve played mostly against opponents like Empoli who defends a lot. It's the opposite. There is not so much space and espcially if you are the main attacking force, they will pay special attention to you. Not to mention, playing for a bigger team needs a different phychological approach, it's not just talent that counts. There are previous examples of good players who can't play for a bigger team. Giovinco considers himself a star for doing the basic things that he should do.
-Giovinco is not a striker/forward, but he is no real midfielder neither.
People who defends Giovinco say that Messi doesn't defend. Actually Messi is incredible in pressing and always tries to get the ball back when he loses the ball. Giovinco doesn't do this or hasn't the ability to.
b. When Giovinco is running with the ball, it's not easy for the opposite defender to knock him off the ball. However, when he is in a low tempo, he is very very prone to lose the ball, which is the more severe problem than the so called "defending" & "tracking back" one, IMHO. For instance, in the Champion's League match against Bate which ended 2-2, Giovinco was knocked off the ball on the right side and the same Bate player made a counter attack and resulted in goal. The second goal of them was something similar. Giovinco made two assists and barely made up for the loss besides Iaquinta was more than effecient that day.
Giovinco always has to play in a high tempo due to this defect. Can't control the tempo. Loses the ball if he slows down. A midfielder is not like this. Iniesta doesn't score many goals neither, but he can control the ball in any situation, he can also defend very well.
My point is that if Giovinco can't do the works of a midfielder, to make up, he has to score at least as many goals as a second striker. He is a striker for what he can do on the pitch.
He scored 6 goals in Empoli. Pro-Giovinco blame Empoli for being poor. He scored 4 goals in 30 U-21 games so Italy U-21 was poor? Actually they were one of the best sides not to mention they were in the same group with teams such as Faroe Island. The 4 goals Giovinco scored: 1 freekick against Ivory Coast (I give credit for this. His freekick is quite good), 1 wonder goal scored against Honduras (again credit. it's beautiful), another goal against Ivory Coast alla Muntari today against Genoa mainly due to goalkeeper's fault and 1 goal he made a mistake with the kick and it entered (lol, in Juve he also scored once when he kicked the ball wrongly), So he scored like 1 non-freekick goal in 30 matches, playing full time as the team's core. That's too poor...
2. I watched several matches of Empoli. My impression.
Empoli as a team whose goal was to remain in Serie A played completely different than a team such as Juve. Take one match against Roma in which Giovinco played good for example, Empoli defended by 10. Giovinco was the only one who didn't defend actually. Most of the time, Roma was attacking and all the Empoli players was on the other side of the pitch except Giovinco who remained near Roma's penalty area. Occasionally Empoli made some counter attacks and Giovinco backed a little to get the ball. There was far more space for Giovinco than in Juve. A team like Juve played mostly against opponents like Empoli who defends a lot. It's the opposite. There is not so much space and espcially if you are the main attacking force, they will pay special attention to you. Not to mention, playing for a bigger team needs a different phychological approach, it's not just talent that counts. There are previous examples of good players who can't play for a bigger team. Giovinco considers himself a star for doing the basic things that he should do.
Incorrect. I'm not going to waste my time arguing points I don't really care about. I have better things to do. I know you think I don't care about Juve at all, but that argument won't get you anywhere either, even though the majority might agree with you.
And you consider whatever the managers say as fact, not opinion, which is why you so aggressively defend Del Neri and Marotta. Judging by their history, a normal reaction to their appointment would be that of caution considering DN's history and Marotta's minimal experience.
Because it's a smaller club, the level of training would at a lesser standard (even you should agree with that), the level of competition at training would be worse, the level of competition for spots would be worse, the overall morale of the player would be worse considering he knows his future might not reside there, the loaned player is not guaranteed a spot in the team, the loaned player has no chemistry with his new mates, et cetera.
This doesn't even include the fact that extra pressure is placed on the player to perform in a side he is not accustomed to. Whether you agree with that point doesn't really matter, as common sense and human psychology demonstrates that putting a spotlight on a person in unfamiliar surroundings is not a good idea. But suit yourself. You cherish one important facet of development over several others grouped together, so I can't possibly agree with that.
That's true, but I'd rather have a better player on the squad, wouldn't you?
Complete nonsense. The only difference is that we had Diego roaming around in a free role, in which he provided our only real attacking threat from midfield. Melo was crap, Sissoko was crap, Marchisio was average, Camo was pretty poor for his ability, and we had nobody else to provide a creative spark. We had one creative player last year in midfield, the rest were nothing but power and one-dimensional players on pretty poor form. This year we have Krasic and Aquilani, one player who we depend on completely and another who can at least complete passes.
To be short, your post was revisionary nonsense. Apparently you'd be the one to drop Chiellini, Buffon and others from the Azzurri because of your embarrassing showing this past summer. But then again, since they're all Italians, you probably wouldn't!
Because they have a history elsewhere. You would wait to evaluate a signing like Mia Hamm? Hmmm? Probably not.
Mmmm, Hammm.
Played elsewhere, can judge him as a player.
I absolutely love it how you never mention Pepe's attitude, complaining about playing time already this season. Goes to show your bias.
Seriously folks, if this guy cared about attitude, he'd complain about Pepe.
But admittedly, Pepe is "one of my boys."
What a joke.
And you consider whatever the managers say as fact, not opinion, which is why you so aggressively defend Del Neri and Marotta. Judging by their history, a normal reaction to their appointment would be that of caution considering DN's history and Marotta's minimal experience.
Because it's a smaller club, the level of training would at a lesser standard (even you should agree with that), the level of competition at training would be worse, the level of competition for spots would be worse, the overall morale of the player would be worse considering he knows his future might not reside there, the loaned player is not guaranteed a spot in the team, the loaned player has no chemistry with his new mates, et cetera.
This doesn't even include the fact that extra pressure is placed on the player to perform in a side he is not accustomed to. Whether you agree with that point doesn't really matter, as common sense and human psychology demonstrates that putting a spotlight on a person in unfamiliar surroundings is not a good idea. But suit yourself. You cherish one important facet of development over several others grouped together, so I can't possibly agree with that.
That's true, but I'd rather have a better player on the squad, wouldn't you?
Complete nonsense. The only difference is that we had Diego roaming around in a free role, in which he provided our only real attacking threat from midfield. Melo was crap, Sissoko was crap, Marchisio was average, Camo was pretty poor for his ability, and we had nobody else to provide a creative spark. We had one creative player last year in midfield, the rest were nothing but power and one-dimensional players on pretty poor form. This year we have Krasic and Aquilani, one player who we depend on completely and another who can at least complete passes.
To be short, your post was revisionary nonsense. Apparently you'd be the one to drop Chiellini, Buffon and others from the Azzurri because of your embarrassing showing this past summer. But then again, since they're all Italians, you probably wouldn't!
Because they have a history elsewhere. You would wait to evaluate a signing like Mia Hamm? Hmmm? Probably not.
Mmmm, Hammm.
Played elsewhere, can judge him as a player.
I absolutely love it how you never mention Pepe's attitude, complaining about playing time already this season. Goes to show your bias.
Seriously folks, if this guy cared about attitude, he'd complain about Pepe.
But admittedly, Pepe is "one of my boys."
What a joke.
Giovinco:
2 assists in his Serie A debut which ends 2-2
Reward: Benched for almost the whole season
2 assists against BATE in the CL and looking dangerous everytime with the ball.
Reward: Benched for the aging Nedved
Coming in from the bench against Chelsea in the CL and being the best player on the pitch
Reward: Benched for the rest of the season
Playing in the left side of the 4-2-3-1 playing great, scoring 1 goal and creating 2 in 2 games where we score 10 goals in total
Reward: Benched for DP for the rest of the season
And those are only the ones i remember from the top of my head. He never got an extended run in the 1st team no matter how well he played. It's easy to understand why he's upset with Juve. If he stays fit from now he's going to show what he's worth in Parma.
2 assists in his Serie A debut which ends 2-2
Reward: Benched for almost the whole season
2 assists against BATE in the CL and looking dangerous everytime with the ball.
Reward: Benched for the aging Nedved
Coming in from the bench against Chelsea in the CL and being the best player on the pitch
Reward: Benched for the rest of the season
Playing in the left side of the 4-2-3-1 playing great, scoring 1 goal and creating 2 in 2 games where we score 10 goals in total
Reward: Benched for DP for the rest of the season
And those are only the ones i remember from the top of my head. He never got an extended run in the 1st team no matter how well he played. It's easy to understand why he's upset with Juve. If he stays fit from now he's going to show what he's worth in Parma.