incidently, I lost as many arguments as I won....but I'm a Scot...and standing up for ones self is beaten in to you from birth
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say goodbye to ancelotti (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
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personally i am sad ancelotti's gone. yes , his comments bout the americans was way out of line but i never expected he'd get banned, even though thats probably the right thing to do. and yes i do wish serge was here with us , but that matter aside i've always liked him and incubo.
goodbye ancelotti :down: banning you was probably the right thing to do, and you shouldn't have said those things bout americans, but other than that i'll miss you here.
goodbye ancelotti :down: banning you was probably the right thing to do, and you shouldn't have said those things bout americans, but other than that i'll miss you here.
I don't want to go off on a rant here but some of you are REAL hypocrits; sorry to be so blunt but I'm sure you wouldn't expect otherwise. As I read these posts I see the pure bullsh*t spewn out like verbal dysentery. You accuse me of things you are just as guilty of. When I came here I can show you that the personal insults hit me before I fired any. some figured I would be gone in days and it would not matter. But now they try to avoid the incidents and play the role of the victim. To that I say KISS MY GUIDO MILANISTA New York Italian A*S!
This is just a note that I know and see what some of you are pulling and the next time you spew out your accusations I wont' hold back and expose what really is going on and once again you'll be the loser in your own forum. I adjusted with the times and people. If you can't get over the fact that I took away from your spotlight...deal with it...go cry in your pillow but don't come here and try to gain cheap support.
Some I even tried to mend fences but its obvious that its beyond them to put little arguements behind them. You want to hold a grudge? You want me out? Your waiting for me to get banned?
take a number and wait in line.
This is just a note that I know and see what some of you are pulling and the next time you spew out your accusations I wont' hold back and expose what really is going on and once again you'll be the loser in your own forum. I adjusted with the times and people. If you can't get over the fact that I took away from your spotlight...deal with it...go cry in your pillow but don't come here and try to gain cheap support.
Some I even tried to mend fences but its obvious that its beyond them to put little arguements behind them. You want to hold a grudge? You want me out? Your waiting for me to get banned?
take a number and wait in line.
You know...when I first came here two and a quarter years, and a few thousand posts ago, Juve and Celtic had just been drawn together in the CL group stages. Many Celtic fans had beaten me here already and had dumped all over Juve. Unfortunately their posts labeled the other Celtic fans who wanted to just discuss the matches as trouble, and for a time it was impossible to have any good debates without being ridiculed by the Juventnin (only some). I was exasperated and just about to move on when Macfarlando stood up fo me and asked the rest to give me a chance (still appreciated man). He recognised that I just wanted to talk football.
After that I was cut some slack...and I'm still here
Maybe cut Incubo some and the tension of the posts between the Juventni and he may lesson....if not then we tried
After that I was cut some slack...and I'm still here
Maybe cut Incubo some and the tension of the posts between the Juventni and he may lesson....if not then we tried
No longer being a contributor to this forum its probably not my place.... but a couple of my thoughts on this forum and recent events...
A few years ago this forum was to me pretty good.
It was well balanced... There was a good mixture of quality posters, fun and conflict.
All of which are essential
You could have great debates lasting many pages that as well as to some extent an exciting battle, they were very fulfilling and fun.... these posts also meant people actually learnt something about the team and football in general...
Of course there was conflict, but so what, generally it adds to the place.
Sometimes it would go to far but that was usually sorted by mods pretty sharpish
But most importantly there was a certain degree of respect shown between posters.... Thats how i saw it anyway.
Then many posters left... The debates slowly stopped and were replaced with numerous single sentence answeres which offered no real substance and pointless threads that said nothing... there was e3ven a thread saying goodnight..ffs
To me ... there has been many times when a passing reader, wouldnt even recognise the place as a juve forum.
But the worst thing to me about this place is simply respect.... there is none.
I read several forums quite regurlarly and this one by far has the least respect for other teams and there fans.
There are constantly threads saying milan, roma etc are shit and coming out with all kinds of bullshit about the teams and players.
The amount of threads saying inter fans are this or that..
And when rival fans come here the majority are insulted first... then when they react, they get attacked from all angles and people run around saying they should be banned... its disgraceful imo
Why cant people stand up and argue there point... answer the critics.. put them in there place....
When they come and say we buy refs.. we do drugs etc etc... come back with an argument, stand up for your club.. show some pride.... do none of you have any respect for the club you all purport to be massive fans of.
At times i really get the impression there are a handful of good posters and an awful lot of people that know absolutely nothing about 'their team' ... jus glory hunters jumping on the bandwagon.
Correct me if im wrong but there was recently a 'juve fan' asking what position we were in the league and other such mindless crap, such as sugesting a poor start to the season... one that was actually our best in nigh on 20 years... 'juve fan'... my arse
I also see many people jumping on critics with cheap insults that can only be explained cause they are incapable of actually making their point and so kill it with insults or cheap shots.
Dont get me wrong .. there are some great posters and some great people but the general attitude at times is sickening...
If your insulted... I apologise, but thats the way i see this place at the moment.. which is a shame as it was once one of the better 'juve' forums around.
And though i disagree with many of their ways, martin and the long standing mods have given an awful lot to this forum and to me many people on a daily basis spit it back in their faces.
Ancelotti :
Undoubtedly a pleb.. but generally harmless... If anyone had jumped in when he first turned up and baffled him with facts and reason he probably would have calmed or left.
But the repeated answering to his baiting made it worse and jus fueled his entertainment... I would say where some of you are upset at his comments and that someone you like has left... he is laughing his arse off... he may be banned,but he won.
The thread that lead to serge leaving allthough out of line and should have been shut down straight away (but mods cant be everywhere) was not that bigger deal... again no-one stood up and defended, it jus turned into a juvenile slanging match...
Allthough i quite like serge and many of his posts i think he over reacted somewhat and ancelotti should not have been banned... He added some zest and the moment some one had stopped reacting and debated him he would have scurried off anyway.
Incubo ::
Presently probably, on a football sense the best poster on the board at this time... but again no one stands up for our club and debates him.
My only conclusion to the unwillingness to debate is that you cant do it, you are threatened cause you dont think you can win.
Many people can learn alot about football from this guy
But most of his arguments could be debated.. he comes up with some good information but most of it can be countered and though not always beaten you could easily come out even...
Why no one tries is beyond, why you return to insults??
Prove him wrong.. show some juventus spirit
Anyway jus my opinion... I apologis to anyone that feels agreived by my post.
Sorry for the badly written post on a somewhat sensitive subject, but ive had a hard day
A few years ago this forum was to me pretty good.
It was well balanced... There was a good mixture of quality posters, fun and conflict.
All of which are essential
You could have great debates lasting many pages that as well as to some extent an exciting battle, they were very fulfilling and fun.... these posts also meant people actually learnt something about the team and football in general...
Of course there was conflict, but so what, generally it adds to the place.
Sometimes it would go to far but that was usually sorted by mods pretty sharpish
But most importantly there was a certain degree of respect shown between posters.... Thats how i saw it anyway.
Then many posters left... The debates slowly stopped and were replaced with numerous single sentence answeres which offered no real substance and pointless threads that said nothing... there was e3ven a thread saying goodnight..ffs
To me ... there has been many times when a passing reader, wouldnt even recognise the place as a juve forum.
But the worst thing to me about this place is simply respect.... there is none.
I read several forums quite regurlarly and this one by far has the least respect for other teams and there fans.
There are constantly threads saying milan, roma etc are shit and coming out with all kinds of bullshit about the teams and players.
The amount of threads saying inter fans are this or that..
And when rival fans come here the majority are insulted first... then when they react, they get attacked from all angles and people run around saying they should be banned... its disgraceful imo
Why cant people stand up and argue there point... answer the critics.. put them in there place....
When they come and say we buy refs.. we do drugs etc etc... come back with an argument, stand up for your club.. show some pride.... do none of you have any respect for the club you all purport to be massive fans of.
At times i really get the impression there are a handful of good posters and an awful lot of people that know absolutely nothing about 'their team' ... jus glory hunters jumping on the bandwagon.
Correct me if im wrong but there was recently a 'juve fan' asking what position we were in the league and other such mindless crap, such as sugesting a poor start to the season... one that was actually our best in nigh on 20 years... 'juve fan'... my arse
I also see many people jumping on critics with cheap insults that can only be explained cause they are incapable of actually making their point and so kill it with insults or cheap shots.
Dont get me wrong .. there are some great posters and some great people but the general attitude at times is sickening...
If your insulted... I apologise, but thats the way i see this place at the moment.. which is a shame as it was once one of the better 'juve' forums around.
And though i disagree with many of their ways, martin and the long standing mods have given an awful lot to this forum and to me many people on a daily basis spit it back in their faces.
Ancelotti :
Undoubtedly a pleb.. but generally harmless... If anyone had jumped in when he first turned up and baffled him with facts and reason he probably would have calmed or left.
But the repeated answering to his baiting made it worse and jus fueled his entertainment... I would say where some of you are upset at his comments and that someone you like has left... he is laughing his arse off... he may be banned,but he won.
The thread that lead to serge leaving allthough out of line and should have been shut down straight away (but mods cant be everywhere) was not that bigger deal... again no-one stood up and defended, it jus turned into a juvenile slanging match...
Allthough i quite like serge and many of his posts i think he over reacted somewhat and ancelotti should not have been banned... He added some zest and the moment some one had stopped reacting and debated him he would have scurried off anyway.
Incubo ::
Presently probably, on a football sense the best poster on the board at this time... but again no one stands up for our club and debates him.
My only conclusion to the unwillingness to debate is that you cant do it, you are threatened cause you dont think you can win.
Many people can learn alot about football from this guy
But most of his arguments could be debated.. he comes up with some good information but most of it can be countered and though not always beaten you could easily come out even...
Why no one tries is beyond, why you return to insults??
Prove him wrong.. show some juventus spirit
Anyway jus my opinion... I apologis to anyone that feels agreived by my post.
Sorry for the badly written post on a somewhat sensitive subject, but ive had a hard day
What when i was reading at the time he posted.. I saw them before he deleted / edited... they werent no worse than you see on forums all the time... he should have defended or walked away friom the thread and complained.. not got himself into a pointless argument and then deserted a forum he was only recently praises to the highs
Ok, I would like to clear the air, once and for all regarding this situation.
If anyone thinks that I left SOLELY because of what Ancelotti did, they are wrong. Ancelotti was simply the symptom to the disease that was beginning to rear its ugly head in this forum. The disease being a genuine lack of respect for people.
I understand about the need for debate, even argument, hell I've done it here a couple of times, it's necessary and vital to keeping a forum fresh, but there are lines that are drawn that no one should cross, and not only was that line crossed, it was obliterated. You can agree or disagree about tactics, transfers, scudettos, championship leauge trophies, music, movies, pets, ownership and squad integrity until your blue in the face, that's what the forum is here for. However, there comes a time when it goes way over the line, and it crosses over into the personal. And this is exactly what happened here.
Did I want Ancelotti banned? Ask martin, and he'll tell you that I asked for him not to get banned, because as much as i hated him at the time, I knew that he was just the match that lit the fuse to what i was feeling when the Anti-US sentiments were brought up, yet again, when I was on the forum.
I've never disrespected anybody here, whether it be their knoweldge of football, becuase 90% of you here know more than I do, and certainly not because of their race, nationality, creed, color, religion, sexual preference........et al. I would expect the same in return. It's not much for anyone to ask. For those that say "well, what ancelotti said is not a big deal", Oh really? well, how would YOU feel if out of the blue, someone who you were having a normal conversation with, decides to say, "you know what, you Americans are all dumb, brain-washed by television, have an idiot for a president, a joke of a school system , uncaring parents, but you know what, I love your country because high-speed internet is cheap, and so are your women"
And the fact that he deleted all of his offensive posts the next morning, when a thread was created saying that I had left, (which by the way, I didn't ask for nor expect, but I thank you, Iceblu. You are a friend.), goes a long way in telling you the fabric of his character. The fact that, although he APPEARED to show some remorse, he then proceeded to throw cheap shots at me when I wasn't here just showed that he could honestly care less who he disrespects, and it would have been a matter of time before he did it to other people.
A simple apology from you, ancelotti, and I would've have fought for you to stay on. Not even an apology, just something saying "look, I f*ucked up, and I won't cross that line again" would have been fine. I don't blame you entirely for me leaving, but not doing that just showed your blatant lack of respect for people here. The fact that I pm'd him and welcomed him here when he first got here when some people wanted him booted, and up until that point, we had insightful conversations, just made it all the more confusing and upsetting.
I also don't blame martin or any of the moderators here, either.
I never did. It wasn't their fault that this happened.
I guarantee that anyone here with pride for their country and their people, even one that has the imperfections of the US, would have been insulted, and extremely offended. My problem is, I've seen a couple of other times while I've posted here, and I've thought, "God, no other country gets picked on like mine, what's going on?" If it wasn't for this country, it's very safe to say that i wouldn't be here today. This country saved my family 3 generations ago during World War II, and me being the first on either side of my family to be born in this country, I take great pride in that, and I always will. So please understand that what was said greatly affected me, and maybe this can give you some clarity as to why I left.
Why am I back? Because I miss this place, and I realize that if I had to do things differently, I would have complained to a mod, although that is not my style. And, I miss my friends here. Terribly. And I wanted to come back, because they missed me here, and they showed great support, especially Z, Ian,Ice, Sunshine, Meow, Sally, Roverbhoy, Mikhail, Hydde, Gray, Vit, Anders, Martin, and lastly, my friend Incubo. Your support, along with everyone else here in this forum who showed support, is something that i won't forget for a long time.
Thank you very much.
So, now where do we go from here?
It's very simple actually. It's a concept called 'common decency'.
It's not hard, and if I can do it, hell, everyone can.
We're never going to always agree with one another. This is a forum, not a Utopian blueprint for paradise.
Forums back in ancient Rome were for sharing ideas, thoughts, arguing over philosophy, history, common ground, and opposing ideologies. It wasn't some mud-slinging free-for-all, where out of nowhere, someone would insult someone's background, or culture, and it's safe to say that we can do this here, too.
I apologize for all of the grief that has been caused because of this, but hopefully this has opened some eyes, and brought about some positive change.
I would hate to think that this was all in vain.
I would like to put this incident behind me, and I hope the rest of you would, too. I just didn't want this to fester any longer. I look forward to having insightful, humorous, often times stupid discussions with all of you again.
Let's move forward.
Thank you.
Whew, that was a lot to get off my chest
If anyone thinks that I left SOLELY because of what Ancelotti did, they are wrong. Ancelotti was simply the symptom to the disease that was beginning to rear its ugly head in this forum. The disease being a genuine lack of respect for people.
I understand about the need for debate, even argument, hell I've done it here a couple of times, it's necessary and vital to keeping a forum fresh, but there are lines that are drawn that no one should cross, and not only was that line crossed, it was obliterated. You can agree or disagree about tactics, transfers, scudettos, championship leauge trophies, music, movies, pets, ownership and squad integrity until your blue in the face, that's what the forum is here for. However, there comes a time when it goes way over the line, and it crosses over into the personal. And this is exactly what happened here.
Did I want Ancelotti banned? Ask martin, and he'll tell you that I asked for him not to get banned, because as much as i hated him at the time, I knew that he was just the match that lit the fuse to what i was feeling when the Anti-US sentiments were brought up, yet again, when I was on the forum.
I've never disrespected anybody here, whether it be their knoweldge of football, becuase 90% of you here know more than I do, and certainly not because of their race, nationality, creed, color, religion, sexual preference........et al. I would expect the same in return. It's not much for anyone to ask. For those that say "well, what ancelotti said is not a big deal", Oh really? well, how would YOU feel if out of the blue, someone who you were having a normal conversation with, decides to say, "you know what, you Americans are all dumb, brain-washed by television, have an idiot for a president, a joke of a school system , uncaring parents, but you know what, I love your country because high-speed internet is cheap, and so are your women"
And the fact that he deleted all of his offensive posts the next morning, when a thread was created saying that I had left, (which by the way, I didn't ask for nor expect, but I thank you, Iceblu. You are a friend.), goes a long way in telling you the fabric of his character. The fact that, although he APPEARED to show some remorse, he then proceeded to throw cheap shots at me when I wasn't here just showed that he could honestly care less who he disrespects, and it would have been a matter of time before he did it to other people.
A simple apology from you, ancelotti, and I would've have fought for you to stay on. Not even an apology, just something saying "look, I f*ucked up, and I won't cross that line again" would have been fine. I don't blame you entirely for me leaving, but not doing that just showed your blatant lack of respect for people here. The fact that I pm'd him and welcomed him here when he first got here when some people wanted him booted, and up until that point, we had insightful conversations, just made it all the more confusing and upsetting.
I also don't blame martin or any of the moderators here, either.
I never did. It wasn't their fault that this happened.
I guarantee that anyone here with pride for their country and their people, even one that has the imperfections of the US, would have been insulted, and extremely offended. My problem is, I've seen a couple of other times while I've posted here, and I've thought, "God, no other country gets picked on like mine, what's going on?" If it wasn't for this country, it's very safe to say that i wouldn't be here today. This country saved my family 3 generations ago during World War II, and me being the first on either side of my family to be born in this country, I take great pride in that, and I always will. So please understand that what was said greatly affected me, and maybe this can give you some clarity as to why I left.
Why am I back? Because I miss this place, and I realize that if I had to do things differently, I would have complained to a mod, although that is not my style. And, I miss my friends here. Terribly. And I wanted to come back, because they missed me here, and they showed great support, especially Z, Ian,Ice, Sunshine, Meow, Sally, Roverbhoy, Mikhail, Hydde, Gray, Vit, Anders, Martin, and lastly, my friend Incubo. Your support, along with everyone else here in this forum who showed support, is something that i won't forget for a long time.
Thank you very much.
So, now where do we go from here?
It's very simple actually. It's a concept called 'common decency'.
It's not hard, and if I can do it, hell, everyone can.
We're never going to always agree with one another. This is a forum, not a Utopian blueprint for paradise.
Forums back in ancient Rome were for sharing ideas, thoughts, arguing over philosophy, history, common ground, and opposing ideologies. It wasn't some mud-slinging free-for-all, where out of nowhere, someone would insult someone's background, or culture, and it's safe to say that we can do this here, too.
I apologize for all of the grief that has been caused because of this, but hopefully this has opened some eyes, and brought about some positive change.
I would hate to think that this was all in vain.
I would like to put this incident behind me, and I hope the rest of you would, too. I just didn't want this to fester any longer. I look forward to having insightful, humorous, often times stupid discussions with all of you again.
Let's move forward.
Thank you.
Whew, that was a lot to get off my chest
I pour my heart out, and all you can say is"yay Serge is back"??
that's it, I'm leaving again
Self-mockery is the most admirable form of humor, for you are making fun of yourself to make others laugh. In my case, it's also the easiest.
thanks again Ice. And I'll still be a regular member of your forum, too.
that's it, I'm leaving again
Self-mockery is the most admirable form of humor, for you are making fun of yourself to make others laugh. In my case, it's also the easiest.
thanks again Ice. And I'll still be a regular member of your forum, too.
Advice: We should clone Sergio and then Incubo would be a much more mellow and easy going Milanista...if all juventini were like Sergio I might even start adding Black and White into my wardrobe ...OK NO! But still..welcome back Sergio...your one of the most respected posters here and all the discussions about your departure justifies this. You should become a mediator/arbitrator..you actually made Iceblu and me agree on a point
Welcome back...and cheer for us tomorrow...we WANT your support!
Welcome back...and cheer for us tomorrow...we WANT your support!
