Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (59 Viewers)

[Scottish]

I think Graham is trying to convince the MAGA rabble not to abandon the US strategic interest. Money is a language many of them understand.
We do have some minerals afaik, but nothing extraordinary.
However, bringing the mineral mining and processing industry here after the war would be awesome. For the Western world, it would be another source of cheap minerals—low labor cost, weak regulations, etc., and for us, this would mean jobs and a new industry. Win-win.

It wouldn't be win win, it would be win for western financial interests and a shredded post-war Ukraine would get stripped of your natural resources with a sliver of the profits being reinvested into the country.

The weapons and so on will all have come with conditions.

But actually now I think about it you might end up with a funding plan along the lines of the Marshall plan given your geographical position.

I dunno, I just think the predatory instincts of us countries in the west are always looking for ways to exploit. They did it after the fall of the USSR instead of making the new Russia into an ally and now here we are.

I'm just rambling. Take care man, can't imagine what you're going through

 

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[Kopanja]

It wouldn't be win win, it would be win for western financial interests and a shredded post-war Ukraine would get stripped of your natural resources with a sliver of the profits being reinvested into the country.

It's objectively going to be a win-win, my man. We don't have the know-how or finances to extract those resources. It's either this way or no way. Minor improvement instead of nothing.

They did it after the fall of the USSR instead of making the new Russia into an ally and now here we are.

Sorry, dude, but why do you strip out Russians from any agency? Russians made Russia Russia, not the West, or Putin singlehandedly. The West gave them sit in G8 in 1998 ffs when Russia was even more of a shithole than it is now.

Again, dudes. This is what we are fighting against. Russians behave the same way here in Ukraine. It's a Great Russian Culture on display.
https://x.com/PhilipObaji/status/1818296510095733141

 

[Scottish]

It's objectively going to be a win-win, my man. We don't have the know-how or finances to extract those resources. It's either this way or no way. Minor improvement instead of nothing.



Sorry, dude, but why do you strip out Russians from any agency? Russians made Russia Russia, not the West, or Putin singlehandedly. The West gave them sit in G8 in 1998 ffs when Russia was even more of a shithole than it is now.

Again, dudes. This is what we are fighting against. Russians behave the same way here in Ukraine. It's a Great Russian Culture on display.
https://x.com/PhilipObaji/status/1818296510095733141

You know what I mean. A country which was full of anti-western sentiment after decades of USSR and which was in economic ruins was going to need some olive branches. Instead they got asset stripped. From their point of view there was no reason to see the west as an ally any more than before the end of the USSR.

 

[Kopanja]

You know what I mean. A country which was full of anti-western sentiment after decades of USSR and which was in economic ruins was going to need some olive branches. Instead they got asset stripped. From their point of view there was no reason to see the west as an ally any more than before the end of the USSR.

How?

 

[Scottish]

Anyway I'm aware that it's easy for me to talk about these things from the safety of my house in a land not being invaded.

- - - Updated - - -

How?

I'm really no expert, but I'm referring to the western economists encouraging the "shock therapy" of rapid privatisation which took place, with private interests seizing parts of the Russian state for themselves effectively robbing the state (by extension the population) of what little they had left.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/the-piratization-russia-russian-reform-goes-awry

- - - Updated - - -

https://geohistory.today/russia-shock-therapy/

 

[Kopanja]

I'm really no expert, but I'm referring to the western economists encouraging the "shock therapy" of rapid privatisation which took place, with private interests seizing parts of the Russian state for themselves effectively robbing the state (by extension the population) of what little they had left.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/the-piratization-russia-russian-reform-goes-awry

Exactly. The West has nothing to do with shock therapy, privatization, vouchers, etc. This is what Russians did themselves.
Not everything in the world happens in reaction to "the West" actions. I'd argue that some Westerners overestimate the influence "the West" actually has.

 

[Scottish]

Exactly. The West has nothing to do with shock therapy, privatization, vouchers, etc. This is what Russians did themselves.
Not everything in the world happens in reaction to "the West" actions. I'd argue that some Westerners overestimate the influence "the West" actually has.

I wrote a decent reply to this but then my browser crashed and I don't have time to write it all again

Indeed not everything happens because of the west, but the events in post-USSR Russia had the fingerprints of the west all over it. From meddling and perhaps even fixing the 1996 election, to promoting the ideas of shock therapy but not offering the support necessary to make it work, the RF was set up to fail. Short-term economic interests won out over longer-sighted political strategy and as a result the teetotaler nationalist Putin emerged as the antidote to the flaccid alcoholic leadership of Yeltsin.

Westerners do overestimate the influence of the west in today's world. The impotence of the (on paper highly punitive) sanctions put on Russia after the full-scale invasion began showed this clearly. However, 1992 truly was a unipolar world geopolitically speaking. The west and in particular the USA had all the cards and blundered their way into where they are now.

 

[Kopanja]

Indeed not everything happens because of the west, but the events in post-USSR Russia had the fingerprints of the west all over it.

This is very bold statement and I'd like to know what are those fingerprints.

From meddling and perhaps even fixing the 1996 election

Have you read this link? Russians did it themselves. They were afraid of Commies' revanche.

to promoting the ideas of shock therapy but not offering the support necessary to make it work, the RF was set up to fail.

Again, Russians did it themselves, come on man.

Short-term economic interests won out over longer-sighted political strategy and as a result the teetotaler nationalist Putin emerged as the antidote to the flaccid alcoholic leadership of Yeltsin.

Putin has not "emerged". Yeltsin's family wanted to protect stolen assets, so they looked for someone who would guarantee it. Yeltsin cherrypicked Putin.

The west and in particular the USA had all the cards and blundered their way into where they are now.

I agree with that. The West should've not treated Russia with kid's gloves. I am happy for Baltic countries and Polish buddies. They were smart enough and quick enough to get into the EU and NATO. They knew that as soon as Russia recovered, they would attack. Unfortunately, many people here and in Belarus believed in all this "brotherly nations" bullshit, and look where it got us – Belarus is one step from dissolving, and we are fighting against genocide.

 

[Bisco]

This is very bold statement and I'd like to know what are those fingerprints.


Have you read this link? Russians did it themselves. They were afraid of Commies' revanche.


Again, Russians did it themselves, come on man.


Putin has not "emerged". Yeltsin's family wanted to protect stolen assets, so they looked for someone who would guarantee it. Yeltsin cherrypicked Putin.


I agree with that. The West should've not treated Russia with kid's gloves. I am happy for Baltic countries and Polish buddies. They were smart enough and quick enough to get into the EU and NATO. They knew that as soon as Russia recovered, they would attack. Unfortunately, many people here and in Belarus believed in all this "brotherly nations" bullshit, and look where it got us – Belarus is one step from dissolving, and we are fighting against genocide.

Sometimes a picture is better than a thousand words anyway take care in the "front" and here is hoping the кастрюля loosens up. With regards to the "brotherly" nations it is true and you know it considering the biggest amount of Ukranian refugees are in Russia )) luckily many Ukranians are beginning to understand that they were used and you can enjoy their videos fighting back against TCC. Particularly the women in Odessa ( no surprise considering the origins of the city) gives you hope that the кастрюля is finally getting removed at long last. So here is hoping for you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kopanja]

Above one can see a typical Russian in the wild and its attempts at insult. It's retarded; unfortunately, no surprises here. It's also a pussy. Fine with sending other ivans into a meatgrinder, itself staying safe and sound at home.
@Scottish, this is an exhibit of what I was talking about. This person is probably not some kind of minority in bumfuckofnowhere of Russia, oppressed and isolated from the entire world. It is someone who has all the access to goods of Western civilization. There could be no reasoning with something like it, and no compromise is achievable. This is what we are dealing with.

 

[Akshen]

It's objectively going to be a win-win, my man. We don't have the know-how or finances to extract those resources. It's either this way or no way. Minor improvement instead of nothing.



Sorry, dude, but why do you strip out Russians from any agency? Russians made Russia Russia, not the West, or Putin singlehandedly. The West gave them sit in G8 in 1998 ffs when Russia was even more of a shithole than it is now.
Ofc ur right, but dont fool urself, once the war is over it will all be forgotten. Just like for Germany after WWII and in the mainstream they will say it was Putins Russia that created the war not just Russia. Countries like this just get away with things, even if its as bad as u can see, thats just politics.

 

[Kopanja]

Ofc ur right, but dont fool urself, once the war is over it will all be forgotten. Just like for Germany after WWII and in the mainstream they will say it was Putins Russia that created the war not just Russia. Countries like this just get away with things, even if its as bad as u can see, thats just politics.

Thanks, I know, I've been thoroughly disillusioned It's already here. Most of the Russian so-called "liberal opposition" already says that there is some kind of "Putin's army" and "Putin's war", meaning that Russia itself and "ordinary" Russians have nothing to do with it. At the same time, even in this particular thread, those "ordinary" Russians looks indistinguishable from "Putin's Russian" , and by God, they are indeed so "ordinary".

 

[Akshen]

Thanks, I know, I've been thoroughly disillusioned It's already here. Most of the Russian so-called "liberal opposition" already says that there is some kind of "Putin's army" and "Putin's war", meaning that Russia itself and "ordinary" Russians have nothing to do with it. At the same time, even in this particular thread, those "ordinary" Russians looks indistinguishable from "Putin's Russian" , and by God, they are indeed so "ordinary".

sorry the fooling part was actually directed to the rest.
The rest is of course true and it will end like with Germany and Nazis in the end, even though its clear in both cases the majority of the country supported the barbarians. But sorry its Russians army, just like in WWII we had Germans Army and nothing will change it.

 

[Kopanja]

sorry the fooling part was actually directed to the rest.
The rest is of course true and it will end like with Germany and Nazis in the end, even though its clear in both cases the majority of the country supported the barbarians. But sorry its Russians army, just like in WWII we had Germans Army and nothing will change it.

Yep. Soon we will hear same-ol stories a-la "clean wehrmacht", "Italini brava gente" etc.

 

[Strickland]

I wrote a decent reply to this but then my browser crashed and I don't have time to write it all again

Indeed not everything happens because of the west, but the events in post-USSR Russia had the fingerprints of the west all over it. From meddling and perhaps even fixing the 1996 election, to promoting the ideas of shock therapy but not offering the support necessary to make it work, the RF was set up to fail. Short-term economic interests won out over longer-sighted political strategy and as a result the teetotaler nationalist Putin emerged as the antidote to the flaccid alcoholic leadership of Yeltsin.

Westerners do overestimate the influence of the west in today's world. The impotence of the (on paper highly punitive) sanctions put on Russia after the full-scale invasion began showed this clearly. However, 1992 truly was a unipolar world geopolitically speaking. The west and in particular the USA had all the cards and blundered their way into where they are now.

The 90ties created the new Russian oligarchy. Afaik the oligarchs are Russian and their wealth didnt end up in the hands of the West. If the West were behind it all, why did they miss out on all the billions of dollars on the table?

 

[U Picciriddu]

Ukraine got to 15km in Russian territory

 

[JuveJay]

Ukraine got to 15km in Russian territory

Russia accused them of "provocation", lmao. Think things might have gone a little past that point by now.

 

[ALC]

Ukraine got to 15km in Russian territory

very nazi like of them

 

[U Picciriddu]

Russia accused them of "provocation", lmao. Think things might have gone a little past that point by now.

Their sense of humour is great though

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Russia accused them of "provocation", lmao. Think things might have gone a little past that point by now.

Can't wait to hear the Russian apologist spin on why this is the United States's fault and Ukraine is evil for this.