Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (66 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

Your ability to make logical deductions is severely hampered it seems. Either you are too emotionally invested or it's a recurring issue.

I will not speak on behalf of the people you mentioned, but I never claimed this is not on Russia (it obviously is). Never said they had no other option. I also didn't say Ukrainians were negotiating in good fate, I said if people claim, in good faith, that if Ukraine would have made concessions this would have been avoided is just a fact and not blame shifting.

A fact? Concessions like regime change? Becoming a puppet state under the authoritarian regime of Putin’s? Yeah. Seems like the logical choice when they want to stay a sovereign independent nation with right to self-determination. Even if that’s how they end up at the end of this, I doubt they are going to be saying damn, wish we had just given up right away and let Russia conquer us without any fight.

 

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[Tomice]

A fact? Concessions like regime change? Becoming a puppet state under the authoritarian regime of Putin’s? Yeah. Seems like the logical choice when they want to stay a sovereign independent nation with right to self-determination. Even if that’s how they end up at the end of this, I doubt they are going to be saying damn, wish we had just given up right away and let Russia conquer us without any fight.

I fully support their decision to not do that. I salute them for it. Nothing I said suggested otherwise

 

[s4tch]

...I said if people claim, in good faith, that if Ukraine would have made concessions this would have been avoided is just a fact and not blame shifting.

honest question, in your opinion what kind of concessions they should have made?

 

[Nzoric]

It’s all NATO’s fault, like always. Nice tidy little box you Serbs here have hemmed yourself into, because NATO intervened and stopped your nation’s war crimes in Kosovo 20 years ago.

Im not biting on that one. But, I do feel its amazing how hard youre sipping on your own coolaid. Its not a zero sum game where if you critique NATO you automatically think the Russians are angels.

Zelensky obviously thought NATO would have his back here. Did they have his back? No. Does that reflect poorly on NATO? Yes. Does it implicate NATO in the escalation? Yes. Does that justify Russian aggression? Not in any way.

See how easy it is?


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[Nzoric]

I fully support their decision to not do that. I salute them for it. Nothing I said suggested otherwise

You see how frustrating it is?


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[Post Ironic]

Im not biting on that one. But, I do feel its amazing how hard youre sipping on your own coolaid. Its not a zero sum game where if you critique NATO you automatically think the Russians are angels.

Zelensky obviously thought NATO would have his back here. Did they have his back? No. Does that reflect poorly on NATO? Yes. Does it implicate NATO in the escalation? Yes. Does that justify Russian aggression? Not in any way.

See how easy it is?


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What a stupid post lol. It doesn’t at all implicate NATO in the escalation and in no way did Zelensky think NATO was going to get into the next continent wide European war with Russia over Ukraine. What a load of BS. NATO countries have been saying the entire time they wouldn’t get involved militarily in a Russia-Ukraine war. That they would support Ukraine with sanctions, military equipment, and whatever diplomatic means available. Ya know, exactly what they are doing. But I’m sure Zelensky just thought they were kidding.

 

[Tomice]

honest question, in your opinion what kind of concessions they should have made?

None . I fully support them in opposing Russians demands. And on the same token i wouldn't have blamed them for making all of them knowing Russiaian love for mass killing and the west impotency.

But again I'm on the outside looking in.

 

[Kopanja]

Zelensky obviously thought NATO would have his back here.

Really? Why? Because Biden said millions of times they won't put boots on the ground.

 

[abstract]

It's fascinating to witness the propaganda right now, and people just eat it up. They invented some Spectral Ukrainian jet that downed 6 Russian jets in the first day of combat. Russia is at the same time being incredibly ineffective but also managed to penetrate to Kiev in one day.

Probably the only good thing that we can all agree on is that Putin isn't Obama or there would be already thousand dead Ukrainian civilians.

 

[Nzoric]

Really? Why? Because Biden said millions of times they won't put boots on the ground.

There’s a difference between boots on the ground (being the one extreme) and sending helmets 3 days into the invasion (being the other extreme). Zelensky himself has had pretty harsh things to say about NATO and the EU in particular since the fighting startet, no?


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[Post Ironic]

None . I fully support them in opposing Russians demands. And on the same token i wouldn't have blamed them for making all of them knowing Russiaian love for mass killing and the west impotency.

But again I'm on the outside looking in.

Russian love for mass killings isn’t just reserved for during wars. They’ve done a good job of it in their vassal states during supposed peacetime as well. Either choice was going to end up with a lot of casualties, because if Ukraine bows down to all Putin’s demands any Ukrainians who disagree and fight or become dissidents or activists against the regime get cracked down upon hard.

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It's fascinating to witness the propaganda right now, and people just eat it up. They invented some Spectral Ukrainian jet that downed 6 Russian jets in the first day of combat. Russia is at the same time being incredibly ineffective but also managed to penetrate to Kiev in one day.

Probably the only good thing that we can all agree on is that Putin isn't Obama or there would be already thousand dead Ukrainian civilians.

No one knows the number of civilian dead thus far other than that it’s likely far higher than anything currently reported due to widespread warfare all across the country with no observers able to collect such data. They have been shelling and firing cruise missiles into cities.

But sure Putin > Obama. Good hot take.

 

[Tomice]

There’s a difference between boots on the ground (being the one extreme) and sending helmets 3 days into the invasion (being the other extreme). Zelensky himself has had pretty harsh things to say about NATO and the EU in particular since the fighting startet, no?


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This is true. Perhaps no one ever promised Ukraine they will send troops but I'm pretty sure Ukraine wouldn't have refused getting some SAM's and other equipment a long time ago.

This conflict has started in 2014, not last month.

 

[Nzoric]

This is true. Perhaps no one ever promised Ukraine they will send troops but I'm pretty sure Ukraine wouldn't have refused getting some SAM's and other equipment a long time ago.

This conflict has started in 2014, not last month.

500 stingers being sent 3-4 (Timeline is a bit foggy, as no one knows if theyve arrived or not) days into the invasion.

When the invasion started Ukraine had what, 13 Mig29’s?


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[Post Ironic]

This is true. Perhaps no one ever promised Ukraine they will send troops but I'm pretty sure Ukraine wouldn't have refused getting some SAM's and other equipment a long time ago.

This conflict has started in 2014, not last month.

US defence assistance over the last year to Ukraine totals $1 billion. Which means $650 million was from before this kicked off. You guys have no idea what you’re talking about.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/22/1075064514/ukraine-lethal-aid-us-russia

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

russian crimes in syria are incomparably more, they have erased entire cities from the map by so called scorched earth tactics. but people around the world didn't show 1/10 of the reaction they are showing against invasion of ukraine. is it because sand people lives worth much less than ukrainians or something else?

 

[j0ker]

Three Serbs caught buying KLA patches and uniforms in Prishtina (Kosovo), probably to stage a false flag attack or most likely to produce a false propaganda video. (A bit amateurish IMO)

It wouldn't be the first time though, in december 1998 in operation Panda they killed 6 and injured 15 Serbian youngsters in a bar named Panda to have a pretex to burn and kill Albanian civilians in the city. This was acknowledged by Serbian president Vucic 16 years later after Serbian medias have been writting for some years that the operation was done by Serbian state security service.

Really hope they don't try something again and then act surprised.

 

[Tomice]

US defence assistance over the last year to Ukraine totals $1 billion. Which means $650 million was from before this kicked off. You guys have no idea what you’re talking about.

U.S. Military Assistance to Ukraine • Stimson Center

A single last generation SAM system cost around 150 million USD. The US military aid to Ukraine excluding this year is peanuts in military terms.

 

[Post Ironic]

Not sure you numbers are correct.

U.S. Military Assistance to Ukraine • Stimson Center

A single last generation SAM system cost around 150 million USD. The US military aid to Ukraine excluding this year is peanuts in military terms.

I posted the article above. Lol. So yeah, my numbers are correct. But I’ll post it again so you can’t pretend it’s not right. https://www.npr.org/2022/01/22/1075064514/ukraine-lethal-aid-us-russia

They approved 200 million in military lethal aid in January taking the past year to 650 million. They’ve now added another 350 million. But sure, 1 billion in military assistance over a single year from the US alone is nothing. That’s 1/6th of Ukraine’s yearly defense budget. Peanuts lol

The things Ukraine has been asking for that the US has been providing them since 2017, Stingers and Javelins cost $120,000 and $175,000 per unit respectively. But sure, peanuts.

 

[U Picciriddu]

Ukraine apparently destroyed every train connection between their country and Russia.

So far it seems that Russia has supply issues. Many videos of Russian soldiers who are cut off

 

[Elvin]

russian crimes in syria are incomparably more, they have erased entire cities from the map by so called scorched earth tactics. but people around the world didn't show 1/10 of the reaction they are showing against invasion of ukraine. is it because sand people lives worth much less than ukrainians or something else?

As brutal as it might sound, yes, democratic electorate's lives are more valuable. It's just the way it is. And it's not about ethnicity at all - same reaction would be given if Putler invaded Japan or S. Korea.