and you decided that by analysing his performances on the bench?? he started 1 game against Reggina and had a more then decent performance IMO
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riquelme-tiago swap deal? (20 Viewers)
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Lets think the other way, like a Villarreal supporter would do.
Juventus overpaid that junk for 12m €... he performed like shit during summer and was giving a single chance to start a league game... it seems like he has fitness problems... he already lost his place on NT... to make things worst he go public so his price should decrease significantly.... Tiago-Riquelme swap is out of question.
I agree, Tiago and Riquelme are not the same type of players but Riquelme certainly belong to a different level of players.
I can't see the likes of Bremen, Hamburg, Barcelona, Atletico or Marseille offering us their best players in a swap deal with Tiago, not to mention that Riquelme is certainly on par with this set of players.
As for your 2nd point, it's sad but true.
1st maybe.
2nd I don't think CR gives a shit if he looks fool or not as long as his formation is getting us the right results.
3rd what more to offer?
Juventus overpaid that junk for 12m €... he performed like shit during summer and was giving a single chance to start a league game... it seems like he has fitness problems... he already lost his place on NT... to make things worst he go public so his price should decrease significantly.... Tiago-Riquelme swap is out of question.
I agree, Tiago and Riquelme are not the same type of players but Riquelme certainly belong to a different level of players.
I can't see the likes of Bremen, Hamburg, Barcelona, Atletico or Marseille offering us their best players in a swap deal with Tiago, not to mention that Riquelme is certainly on par with this set of players.
As for your 2nd point, it's sad but true.
1st maybe.
2nd I don't think CR gives a shit if he looks fool or not as long as his formation is getting us the right results.
3rd what more to offer?
I'm surprised..when has that ever happened??i dont remember saying about any player in the ligue world class..IMO the only world class player in the ligue is Juninho..but i do think Benzema and Nasri wuill develop into world class players.
Are you saying the Scottish League is on par with the French??well look at the french teams results in the CL and the uefa cup and compare them to the scottish teams results..i believe you will see a difference..
You dont even watch the french league...you know nothing about it..so stop acting like a know it all.
its one of the top 5 leagues in Europe..thats undeniable..
Tiago is on Cambiasso's level??is that a bad thing..cambiasso is a very good midfielder.
I dont understand how you can judge a player based on one appearance..Tiago didnt get his fair chance..and thats a fact..He's miles ahead of almiron and Zanetti.Andy pretty sums up what i think about the whole situation..so i have nothing else to add
good points mate..completely agree.
Are you saying the Scottish League is on par with the French??well look at the french teams results in the CL and the uefa cup and compare them to the scottish teams results..i believe you will see a difference..
You dont even watch the french league...you know nothing about it..so stop acting like a know it all.
its one of the top 5 leagues in Europe..thats undeniable..
Tiago is on Cambiasso's level??is that a bad thing..cambiasso is a very good midfielder.
I dont understand how you can judge a player based on one appearance..Tiago didnt get his fair chance..and thats a fact..He's miles ahead of almiron and Zanetti.Andy pretty sums up what i think about the whole situation..so i have nothing else to add
good points mate..completely agree.
I have watched the French league or have tried to but it is too boring, to many misses by strikers.
It is shown on Setanta sports and it is boring.
I never said the scottish league was better than the ligue1, i just told you that Celtic and Rangers would do well in and I am talking about top 4 finish.
How can you be talking about top 5 in Europe as an achievement? How many top leagues are there in Europe?
It is debatable if it is superior to the Dutch or Portuguese leagues is we are to use your criteria by comparing their achievements in Europe.
You cannot deny your partiality towards anything French.
Where do you see me judging Tiago on his Juventus career? I would not do that, I am judging him by the players I saw play for Chelsea and he was not good in my view.
SerieA is on a par to the premiership and that is how I judge players not when they go to the French or leagues like that and look good.
@Andy, I am pretty sure you are not a fan of 4-4-2 so why would you have a problem with us changing a system we are not equipped in?
Argentina and Villareal did not pack their team with defensive players to accommodate Riquelme so why should we.
We are not a team blessed with quality and are kind of helped out by teams in serieA not killing us off, well the teams we have played against anyways.
A team that has Camoranesi, Riquelme, Nocerino and Almiron/nedved/Zanetti is not so bad is it?
Its funny people are saying we would get overworked with lazy ass Riquelme, don't we get overworked anyways with less talented players so why not get someone that can play and dictate to our opponents?
Those players you mentioned like VDV (I don't rate that highly by the way and I don't think he is a playmaker either), Diego, ronaldinho and Nasri are all excellent players but I there has been no report of their manager or board wanting Tiago for any of them.
Obviuosly you guys have seen something I have not in Tiago so please tell me what you think his main qualities are
Is he a good dribbler?
Does he have great vision spotting a pass?
Great ball control?
Great speed of thought with the ball?
Does he have great pass and move ability
It is shown on Setanta sports and it is boring.
I never said the scottish league was better than the ligue1, i just told you that Celtic and Rangers would do well in and I am talking about top 4 finish.
How can you be talking about top 5 in Europe as an achievement? How many top leagues are there in Europe?
It is debatable if it is superior to the Dutch or Portuguese leagues is we are to use your criteria by comparing their achievements in Europe.
You cannot deny your partiality towards anything French.
Where do you see me judging Tiago on his Juventus career? I would not do that, I am judging him by the players I saw play for Chelsea and he was not good in my view.
SerieA is on a par to the premiership and that is how I judge players not when they go to the French or leagues like that and look good.
@Andy, I am pretty sure you are not a fan of 4-4-2 so why would you have a problem with us changing a system we are not equipped in?
Argentina and Villareal did not pack their team with defensive players to accommodate Riquelme so why should we.
We are not a team blessed with quality and are kind of helped out by teams in serieA not killing us off, well the teams we have played against anyways.
A team that has Camoranesi, Riquelme, Nocerino and Almiron/nedved/Zanetti is not so bad is it?
Its funny people are saying we would get overworked with lazy ass Riquelme, don't we get overworked anyways with less talented players so why not get someone that can play and dictate to our opponents?
Those players you mentioned like VDV (I don't rate that highly by the way and I don't think he is a playmaker either), Diego, ronaldinho and Nasri are all excellent players but I there has been no report of their manager or board wanting Tiago for any of them.
Obviuosly you guys have seen something I have not in Tiago so please tell me what you think his main qualities are
Is he a good dribbler?
Does he have great vision spotting a pass?
Great ball control?
Great speed of thought with the ball?
Does he have great pass and move ability
I want you to show me where i was biased to the french league??I dont know why you're saying that anyway..it isnt even my favourite league.
tiago was pretty good in his chelsea days too..if he wasnt,why was Mourinho playing him??he was a first team regular in chelsea..he chipped in with a fair amount of goals..some important ones too,like the one against Man Utd.
Mourinho played him in chelsea,Houllier played him in lyon,scolari used to play him for Portugal..they must have seen something in him,dont you think??
for me he's a rather good passer,He's got a good shot on him and he's a hard worker.
tiago was pretty good in his chelsea days too..if he wasnt,why was Mourinho playing him??he was a first team regular in chelsea..he chipped in with a fair amount of goals..some important ones too,like the one against Man Utd.
Mourinho played him in chelsea,Houllier played him in lyon,scolari used to play him for Portugal..they must have seen something in him,dont you think??
for me he's a rather good passer,He's got a good shot on him and he's a hard worker.
If Mourinho liked Tiago so much he wouldn't have shipped him out as soon as he was able to find someone better.
Tiago is an average player. When you put an average player in a good team like Chelsea or Lyon who are always going to be favourites against weekly domestic opposition, that average player comes off looking like a good one. I would look pretty damn good in a three man midfield with Diarra and Juninho next to me. Imagine Riquelme.
I have no problem whatsoever with giving Tiago a decent run in the team to see what he can do. It's the very least we should do after paying so much for him, but if we can get a better player, as Riquelme undoubtedly is, in a swap deal for him then why the hell not?
Tiago is an average player. When you put an average player in a good team like Chelsea or Lyon who are always going to be favourites against weekly domestic opposition, that average player comes off looking like a good one. I would look pretty damn good in a three man midfield with Diarra and Juninho next to me. Imagine Riquelme.
I have no problem whatsoever with giving Tiago a decent run in the team to see what he can do. It's the very least we should do after paying so much for him, but if we can get a better player, as Riquelme undoubtedly is, in a swap deal for him then why the hell not?
Which goal are you referring to as if you are talking about his equaliser at Old Trafford before Chelsea went on to win 3-1 then that goal was not important because Chelsea were already crowned champions by then
Chelsea first 11 that season was cech, ferreira, gallas, carvalho, terry, robben/Cole, lampard, makele, duff, Gudjohnssen and drogba/crespo.
Tiago was not in the first team if they were all fit and played 50 odd matches mainly coming from the bench.
Robben's constant injury made him play more games than he would have played.
To be honest I would like Riquelme here regardless. If Tiago is part of the squad all well and good as I don't think Almiron is an upgrade on him anyway but a straight shootout between he and Riquelme, there is no question as far as I am concerned
Chelsea first 11 that season was cech, ferreira, gallas, carvalho, terry, robben/Cole, lampard, makele, duff, Gudjohnssen and drogba/crespo.
Tiago was not in the first team if they were all fit and played 50 odd matches mainly coming from the bench.
Robben's constant injury made him play more games than he would have played.
To be honest I would like Riquelme here regardless. If Tiago is part of the squad all well and good as I don't think Almiron is an upgrade on him anyway but a straight shootout between he and Riquelme, there is no question as far as I am concerned
I don't know Veloso at all and I am sure he has potential but to offer a player that was our most expensive plus cash, without utilising said player at all, is just daft. You pay Lyon millions for Tiago, pay Tiago a weekly sum for 3 or so months, not use him at all, then you offer this same player and some more money to Sporting for a player you are not sure would be a success or not will smack of sheer inanity.
I know our board is full of cartoon characters but even captain caveman would not do a deal like this
I know our board is full of cartoon characters but even captain caveman would not do a deal like this
Exactly.
@Denco..you're wrong..i'm too lazy to look for stats to back me up on this..maybe later..but Like Juve Red said the first choice midfield that season consisted of Makelele,Lampard and Tiago..you not knowing that is just more proof that you havent watched Tiago enough to make a fair assesment..Its a known fact that Mourinho played a 4-3-3 in his first 2 years with Chelsea..only changing it last season to accomodate Ballack and shevchenko..
@stu ,I might be wrong here but i believe Tiago only missed 3-5 league games that season.Which only shows how high Mourinho rates him.IMO the reason he sold him was purely tactical..he offers nothing Lampard doesnt..And Lampard would excel even more alongside a player like essien who would offer him more protection,less defensive duties and more freedom to attack.
@Denco..you're wrong..i'm too lazy to look for stats to back me up on this..maybe later..but Like Juve Red said the first choice midfield that season consisted of Makelele,Lampard and Tiago..you not knowing that is just more proof that you havent watched Tiago enough to make a fair assesment..Its a known fact that Mourinho played a 4-3-3 in his first 2 years with Chelsea..only changing it last season to accomodate Ballack and shevchenko..
@stu ,I might be wrong here but i believe Tiago only missed 3-5 league games that season.Which only shows how high Mourinho rates him.IMO the reason he sold him was purely tactical..he offers nothing Lampard doesnt..And Lampard would excel even more alongside a player like essien who would offer him more protection,less defensive duties and more freedom to attack.
I took the liberty of showing you stats of that season and take a close look at games started compared to the amount of games Tiago played for Chelsea that seasonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_F.C._2004-2005
In a way that justifies what I'm saying. He offers less than Lampard on the attacking end and much less than Essien on the defensive side. He's average. He doesn't have any glaring weaknesses but at the same time he doesn't have any vital strengths. Andy tries to convince me that his strength is not having anything wrong with his game but imo what it all comes down to is him being an average player who will succeed in certain situations. In a three man midfield which consists of him, Makelele and Lampard or him, Diarra and Juninho, he will succeed. In a two man midfield with Zanetti or Nocerino, I'm not so sure. Riquelme on the other hand could make a big difference to this team as we look lackluster and out of ideas when going forward. Riquelme will help us keep the ball and do more with it.
yeah that stats in wiki same with stats in FM 08 
for EPL match.
I think Mourinho admire Tiago since his Benfica(Tiago still in Braga), Lieria and Porto time(club coached by Mourinho in the past).
And he doesn't have chance to buy him (maybe some of rivalitas issue between Portugal team Benfica vs Porto ).
And when he is appointed as Chelsea manager, Tiago is one of the first name that come in his mind.
for EPL match.I think Mourinho admire Tiago since his Benfica(Tiago still in Braga), Lieria and Porto time(club coached by Mourinho in the past).
And he doesn't have chance to buy him (maybe some of rivalitas issue between Portugal team Benfica vs Porto ).
And when he is appointed as Chelsea manager, Tiago is one of the first name that come in his mind.
Of course I'm not a fan of the straight 4-4-2, but I also do not want to see our play become directly linked with how one player performs. Argentina is a different case than Villareal as the latter was a side that was always solely dependent upon how Riquelme performed, and as we witnessed with missed penalties and bad performances alike, Villareal ended up suffering. Sure, they were better with Riquelme than without, but they were/are a mediocre side no matter what. Argentina is totally a possession side with all sorts of weapons deployed, and of course yet again we saw at the Copa America a lackluster performance by Riquelme and the rest of the team, ending up in a loss to Brazil. It's these sort of reoccurring failures I'm worried about, along with how I don't think it's a good idea to become dependent on one single player, which will happen because the whole team will be molded around Riquelme. He's no Zidane, so I don't want to see our side be molded completely around him.
Tiago has good vision, good passing skills, good ball control, a damn good long shot, good ideas in the center of the pitch, good positioning. Like I've said before I don't see a real weakness in the player, and that is what Mourinho has said before as well.
And again, Mourinho thinks highly of Tiago and used him 85% of the time when Chelsea won their first Prem title. Houllier was an admirer as well, obvioously. If we are going to use manager opinions as evidence, we have to look at others than just Ranieri. All managers have bias.
Tiago has good vision, good passing skills, good ball control, a damn good long shot, good ideas in the center of the pitch, good positioning. Like I've said before I don't see a real weakness in the player, and that is what Mourinho has said before as well.
And again, Mourinho thinks highly of Tiago and used him 85% of the time when Chelsea won their first Prem title. Houllier was an admirer as well, obvioously. If we are going to use manager opinions as evidence, we have to look at others than just Ranieri. All managers have bias.
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