Refrees.... (1 Viewer)

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,440
#21
This year it seems like Collina has been a Juve curse...

I don't think it's just Lega Calcio. I've seen other sports where the bigger team, or the better player, gets maybe a few more breaks. In U.S. pro basketball, Michael Jordan got a quite a few marginal fouls called his way because referees are human and are not completely unbiased.

Referees are often put in the position of making spot verdicts for very questionable actions -- many of which aren't even crystal clear with the benefit of slow-motion TV from different angles. When a referee is forced to make a margin call for a very, very close situation where the blame might fall 60/40 (instead of, say, a clearer example at 80/20), what do they have to call it one way or the other?

Their perception isn't 100% (it can't be), and as with the judicial system in he-said-she-said cases that are too close to call, sometimes the reputation and other background of the parties can influence the outcome or decision. So I don't doubt that the big clubs might benefit some from this... they may get more of the benefit of the doubt.

But to call the integrity of referees into question is generally pretty pathetic. Humans have an innate and uncanny ability to attribute to conspiracy what incompetence will more than sufficiently explain. This has been true throughout the history of mankind.

Fuel to the fire is that Italian TV has an unusually high obsession with programs that do little but second-guess referee calls.

Personally, it's really a waste of time. And whereas in the U.S. they have sports that allow slow-motion replays from multiple camera angles to overrule referee calls, I would hate to see calcio go that way. The referee is human and part of the game. That goes whether you kick the ball at his head or whether he has to make a judgement call on a sketchy situation.

If people just relax and accept a little of that as part of the game -- as human players, coaches, and refs all make mistakes -- it will be better than trying to treat it as an exact science with laser measurements, etc. Sometimes the calls will go your way. Sometimes they won't. The good teams overcome the occasional bad call -- or create situations where a bad call won't make a major difference in the game's outcome. The bad teams simply point fingers and complain about conspiracies to deflect criticism for their inability to win.
 

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Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#22
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
This year it seems like Collina has been a Juve curse...

I don't think it's just Lega Calcio. I've seen other sports where the bigger team, or the better player, gets maybe a few more breaks. In U.S. pro basketball, Michael Jordan got a quite a few marginal fouls called his way because referees are human and are not completely unbiased.

Referees are often put in the position of making spot verdicts for very questionable actions -- many of which aren't even crystal clear with the benefit of slow-motion TV from different angles. When a referee is forced to make a margin call for a very, very close situation where the blame might fall 60/40 (instead of, say, a clearer example at 80/20), what do they have to call it one way or the other?

Their perception isn't 100% (it can't be), and as with the judicial system in he-said-she-said cases that are too close to call, sometimes the reputation and other background of the parties can influence the outcome or decision. So I don't doubt that the big clubs might benefit some from this... they may get more of the benefit of the doubt.

But to call the integrity of referees into question is generally pretty pathetic. Humans have an innate and uncanny ability to attribute to conspiracy what incompetence will more than sufficiently explain. This has been true throughout the history of mankind.

Fuel to the fire is that Italian TV has an unusually high obsession with programs that do little but second-guess referee calls.

Personally, it's really a waste of time. And whereas in the U.S. they have sports that allow slow-motion replays from multiple camera angles to overrule referee calls, I would hate to see calcio go that way. The referee is human and part of the game. That goes whether you kick the ball at his head or whether he has to make a judgement call on a sketchy situation.

If people just relax and accept a little of that as part of the game -- as human players, coaches, and refs all make mistakes -- it will be better than trying to treat it as an exact science with laser measurements, etc. Sometimes the calls will go your way. Sometimes they won't. The good teams overcome the occasional bad call -- or create situations where a bad call won't make a major difference in the game's outcome. The bad teams simply point fingers and complain about conspiracies to deflect criticism for their inability to win.
great points and well said :thumb:

However, I think that some curruption is possible (not as much as coahces claim), so i do think there are a few cases, specially in Italy (or in general, out of the US). but i agree, it's sad that many cry "curruption" when small mistakes are made.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#24
++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++
so then why dont they put instant replay in football
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++

Personally, it's really a waste of time. And whereas in the U.S. they have sports that allow slow-motion replays from multiple camera angles to overrule referee calls, I would hate to see calcio go that way. The referee is human and part of the game. That goes whether you kick the ball at his head or whether he has to make a judgement call on a sketchy situation.
 

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#26
++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++
i still think that it is a good idea. we can start by using it only in big games where refs would be vulnerable
I used to think it's a good idea, but then it turn reffs into robots like the NFL.

mistakes are part of the game... let's not forget that what we may see as a mistake may not be for the other team.
As for dealing with minor curroption cases, then i think it should be taken care of off the field.

we shouldn't complicate the beautiful game.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,440
#28
++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++
i still think that it is a good idea. we can start by using it only in big games where refs would be vulnerable
Interesting proposition. And I cannot say that it doesn't have its merits -- particularly in big games with so much on the line, you don't want something seemingly borderline to have such big implications. (Though I might make some similar arguments against the policy of penalty kicks for tie-breakers.)

U.S. sports have debated the instant replay issue constantly, and it really comes down to a matter of opinion. I just don't like the notion of taking the media and media coverage -- something at arms-length from the action, set up for the convenience of people eating Doritos on their couches -- and making that a deciding factor in a game over who or what is actually on the pitch. My philosophy: keep the game contained to the pitch and don't let what's off it try to play god.

Lega Calcio, by its nature, is very much the opposite culture from the kind of manipulation instant replay represents. It amuses me how many times people sit down with me as I'm watching a Serie A game on RAI Int'l in the U.S., and they are just helplessly baffled and confused in trying to follow it. No Fox-like graphics and sound effects illustrating ball motion. No screen crawl of player statistics and trivia. More often than not, there isn't even a persistent game clock or score. This drives most American sports fans nuts to no end (and admittedly irks me a little too).

On the time thing alone, it's completely unsettling for American sports fans to not know the exact number of seconds left in a game based on an ever-present time clock. So when a referee adds extra time, it's like voodoo magic or something.

Realize that sports fans in the U.S., with all their instant replays and the like, have been conditioned to an illusion of precision. Professional basketball matches have game clocks that count down tenths of a second. TENTHS OF A SECOND. Apparently American mathematical education is so weak that few are familiar with the term "significant digits".

Sport is imprecise, and at some level you have to accept that.
 

Lilianna

Senior Member
Apr 3, 2003
15,969
#29
++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++


well i win at this. several years ago in Albanian smaller leagues the fans would go to the ref and tell him that the game wont be over till his team wins. i havent seen it but i heard about it in the news.
it's disguasting...
when you decide smg...do it.

that's why i am sure i could never be a referee! :p
because i would always support a team and close my eyes to my team's fouls!
 
Jan 7, 2004
29,704
#31
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


Sport is imprecise, and at some level you have to accept that.
first of all nice post.

second, sports are a lot imprecise and i accept that. what i cannot accept is that some "moron" decides the outcome of the game by some "stupid" calls. kinda like Milan-Borusia or a more known one Italy- Korea.
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
#32
I think instant replays should only be used when it comes to "did the ball cross the line?" decisions.

If you use it in events like offsides and stuff, it'll interrupt the flow of the game and consulting the video referee would probably cause as much controversy as it prevents
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
#33
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
On the time thing alone, it's completely unsettling for American sports fans to not know the exact number of seconds left in a game based on an ever-present time clock. So when a referee adds extra time, it's like voodoo magic or something.
:D
 
Jan 7, 2004
29,704
#34
++ [ originally posted by Graham ] ++
I think instant replays should only be used when it comes to "did the ball cross the line?" decisions.

If you use it in events like offsides and stuff, it'll interrupt the flow of the game and consulting the video referee would probably cause as much controversy as it prevents
no harm in trying if u ask me
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
#35
whatd about installing a 5th referee, that would actually watch the game on TV (at the stadium of course) and radio to the main ref if it was offside or not, penalty, etc.
 

Trezeguet_FC

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2003
1,888
#36
If you ask me, referrees are scared. The bigger teams like Milan, Juve and Inter hold a great deal of power in Italy. If a ref makes a call against them, they 'think' they are going to get screwed one day or another. But when the make bad calls against Ancona for example, 'whats the worst that could happen?'

It's a sad fact, but refs are scared pieces of shit.

Just imagine pissing off the Juve board of directors :eek:

or Milan's President ;)
 

gray

Senior Member
Moderator
Apr 22, 2003
30,260
#37
Well that depends, there are some smaller teams like Napoli or Reggina I wouldn't rush to make decisions against. Wouldn't want the Camorra or Ndrangheta on your ass, now would you? :D
 
OP
Mar 21, 2004
426
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #39
    ++ [ originally posted by PersianMafia ] ++
    If you ask me, referrees are scared. The bigger teams like Milan, Juve and Inter hold a great deal of power in Italy. If a ref makes a call against them, they 'think' they are going to get screwed one day or another. But when the make bad calls against Ancona for example, 'whats the worst that could happen?'

    It's a sad fact, but refs are scared pieces of shit.

    Just imagine pissing off the Juve board of directors :eek:

    or Milan's President ;)
    this is what i want to say...that refrees have their own problems,they own mistakes even in an un-important match but these kinds of mistakes aren't seen by ppl...when mistakes happen FOR or AGAINST great teams,ppl start to say:this refree is crap.
     

    Len

    Senior Member
    Feb 13, 2004
    4,972
    #40
    This is soccer, not American football or Rugby..... :)
    I agree with Gray that the video ref should be used only to check if the ball passed the line in the goal or in an event of a penalty being awarded! Basically only when the players are already resting or doing nothing, waiting for something, eg. in an event of a penalty, you'd notice tat the pk taker takes about a minute to set up and get ready..... If the video ref is used there, there would be no effect to the flow of the game and wouldn't cause an interruption. And the result is that the play can be judged again fairly, if the penalty is to be awarded or not. :D
    If it is used for offsides and fouls.... it interrupts the flow of the game, making it crap to watch and to play ;)
     

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