Questions about nationality (5 Viewers)

[JCK]

Because I want to show him that these are more complex issues than he would like them to be. It annoys me very much when a guy like Andy blurts out that something is very easy to understand and that we're all morons and that we shouldn't go to law school because we don't know shit, when in reality he's leaving out a gazillion factors.

Do you agree with me that it is weird if your brother chooses to support Zambia?

 

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[Seven]

Here are Andy's answers based on the criterium of citizenship:

Question number one:

The one who wasn't born in Italy and has never lived there can support the Italian NT. The guy who was born there and lived there all his life cannot.

Question number two:

You can only support Montenegro, because someone else decided that you were from Montenegro.

Question number three:

The woman cannot support the US. What she is doing is morally corrupt.

Question number four:

He could have supported Zambia had he gained citizenship, but technically he cannot gain it any longer now, so because of a technicality in the law it is impossible for him to support Zambia.

Question number five:

You cannot support your brother if he plays for the US and you're Irish.

 

[Bjerknes]

Question number one:

There are people out there who have not been born in Italy, who don't live in Italy and still hold an Italian passport.There are also people who have been born in Italy, live in Italy and still don't have the Italian passport.

Which one of the two would you call more Italian?

The one that lives in Italy, obviously.

Again, I don't have an American passport, but obviously I'm an American citizen.

Sorry, move along. Citizenship is what matters.

Question number two:

You're a citizen of Serbia and Montenegro. You support Serbia and Montenegro during the World Cup. A couple of years later your country is divided in two countries: Serbia and Montenegro. They decided that you were from Montenegro. Can you support Serbia?

Yes, because you were once a citizen of Serbia and Montenegro. As long as you did not relinquish citizenship of said country, sure, you can support them.

This is in stark contrast to a Belgian who spent a half year in Italy, doesn't have citizenship, but claims to have some right to steal glory from real Italians.

Question number three:

An 80 year old woman still remembers the day that strong American soldier saved her from the claws of death in that cold, cold winter by giving her a blanket and something to eat. It doesn't matter which sport she sees Americans take part in, she will always side with them, because they make her think of that wonderful moment of humanity she once lived. Is she wrong?

There isn't a real problem with having sympathy for another nation. But if she is supporting the US over her own nation in sports, she has a huge problem.

If she's just gloryhunting then she has other problems.

So that's a pretty sorry question you have there, Andries.

Question number four:

My brother was born in Zambia. We both lived there for three years. He could have become a Zambian citizen, but opted not to, because of possible complications with his Belgian passport. Later on they told him that such complications would not have arisen, however it has now become impossible for him to apply for Zambian citizenship, because he is now over 21. He wants to be Zambian and in fact has every right to, but a legal mistake means that he can never hold a Zambian passport. Can he cheer for Zambia?

Again, anyone can cheer for whomever they want, even if it is retarded. Why would your brother want to cheer on a nation that doesn't allow him to become a citizen?

I mean, I don't know your brother, but he doesn't seem too bright.

Perhaps he should follow the rules next time.

Question number five:

Some families have several nationalities. Some people have a brother who is American, but are Irish themselves for example. The brother happens to be very good at football and actually plays for the American NT. Can the guy support the NT his brother plays for?

If you have citizenship in several nations, that's good. If you have a brother that plays for the US, that's even better. You probably should support your brother, but again, since you have citizenship in several countries, you can choose to support any of them.

Again, you, Andries, have nothing of the sort with Italy.

I ask these questions because the Wise One told me that these matters are very simple. If they are very simple, could he answer them for me?

Yes, it is very simple. It's binary, dude. Look it up. You either are, or you are not, in legal terms.

 

[Zlatan]

Dont listen to Andy and just support anyone you want FFS.

I always support Sweden in major competitions or when they play teams other than Bosnia, because I think of it as my second country, having lived there for almost 4 years.

And even when they play Bosnia I dont mind if they win, even if I do wish Bosnia wins.

 

[Seven]

Do you agree with me that it is weird if your brother chooses to support Zambia?

Yes. But I do see why he would like them more than let's say England. He does know the players mind you. It's not that he never sees them and only cares when the Africa Cup is on. He really follows them. But still.. I don't know if he's a particular fan of Zambian (football) culture..

 

[Bjerknes]

oh and what glory they will have this year ...give all the azzurri's fan a respect and a break just because they still support them even if they don't have a chance at the final.

They are living off of past glory. Look at Andries. He loves to rub it in our face that Italy won the World Cup, yet he's not one bit Italian!

Such leechfuckism, and truly pathetic.

If he did the same for the US, I'd say get the hell out.

 

[Bjerknes]

Dont listen to Andy and just support anyone you want FFS.

I always support Sweden in major competitions or when they play teams other than Bosnia, because I think of it as my second country, having lived there for almost 4 years.

And even when they play Bosnia I dont mind if they win, even if I do wish Bosnia wins.

If you lived there for four years and paid taxes, then it makes sense for you to support Sweden. Good one on you.

 

[Seven]

You didn't even understand the questions FFS.

The one that lives in Italy, obviously.

Again, I don't have an American passport, but obviously I'm an American citizen.

Sorry, move along. Citizenship is what matters.

The guy who lives there doesn't have Italian citizenship



Yes, because you were once a citizen of Serbia and Montenegro. As long as you did not relinquish citizenship of said country, sure, you can support them.

But he doesn't have the citizenship of said country. There IS no said country

There isn't a real problem with having sympathy for another nation. But if she is supporting the US over her own nation in sports, she has a huge problem.

If she's just gloryhunting then she has other problems. An 80 year old gloryhunting because she was once saved by an American soldier?





Again, anyone can cheer for whomever they want, even if it is retarded. Why would your brother want to cheer on a nation that doesn't allow him to become a citizen?

It's not Zambia that doesn't allow him to become a citizen, it's Belgium. In fact he did follow the rules, but I wanted to make things easier for you. Years ago you lost your Belgian nationality if you gained another nationality. You had to make a choice. Today you can have both.


If you have citizenship in several nations, that's good. If you have a brother that plays for the US, that's even better. You probably should support your brother, but again, since you have citizenship in several countries, you can choose to support any of them.

No. You don't understand. You're Irish, not American. Your brother is American. Brothers don't always have the same nationality.




Yes, it is very simple. It's binary, dude. Look it up. You either are, or you are not, in legal terms.

 

[Bjerknes]

I say if you make a country your home for a long time, you have every right to support that nation. I mean, after all, it is your home. If you sought refuge in a country, it makes sense to support it.

You, Andries, just went to Italy for school. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you did so on a student Visa. You didn't do so for anything else.

So lets get this straight. You don't have Italian ancestry, you don't have citizenship of Italy, nor do any of your family members, and you only stayed in Italy for 6 months as a student.

Sorry, you're not Italian. Now if you meet requirements for citizenship and become an Italian, I'll give you some respect there.

But honestly, you should support your home nation of Belgium. If it exists.

 

[blondu]

They are living off of past glory. Look at Andries. He loves to rub it in our face that Italy won the World Cup, yet he's not one bit Italian!

Such leechfuckism, and truly pathetic.

If he did the same for the US, I'd say get the hell out.

most of the guys here do that just to annoy you and others ...this is the most stupid thing if you keep yapping again and again, and your NT is crap. I'll support brazil at this wc because of the way they play and because of robinho...and if they will win i'm gonna write 2 Yesss !! but that's it (not like at the olympics)...at least there needs to be a decency not to brag about it like you won it yourself. So imo anyone can support any nt as long as they won't change it and won't brag about it.

 

[Seven]

They are living off of past glory. Look at Andries. He loves to rub it in our face that Italy won the World Cup, yet he's not one bit Italian!

Such leechfuckism, and truly pathetic.

If he did the same for the US, I'd say get the hell out.

No, I'm rubbing it in your face. Big difference. I'm not living off Italian glory at all. Why would I? Hell, even if Belgium won I wouldn't consider it a personal achievement. That's not who I am.

If you lived there for four years and paid taxes, then it makes sense for you to support Sweden. Good one on you.

Wait, what about citizenship? That doesn't matter anymore? And what about Amauri then? He's truly Italian?

 

[Bjerknes]

And since you tied in culture to nationality in your other posts, it makes even less sense for you to support Italy. You're Belgian.

Osman supporting Italy is like me supporting Brazil. It makes no sense whatsoever, and there isn't an argument to use for it to make sense.

 

[Seven]

I say if you make a country your home for a long time, you have every right to support that nation. I mean, after all, it is your home. If you sought refuge in a country, it makes sense to support it.

You, Andries, just went to Italy for school. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you did so on a student Visa. You didn't do so for anything else.

So lets get this straight. You don't have Italian ancestry, you don't have citizenship of Italy, nor do any of your family members, and you only stayed in Italy for 6 months as a student.

Sorry, you're not Italian. Now if you meet requirements for citizenship and become an Italian, I'll give you some respect there.

But honestly, you should support your home nation of Belgium. If it exists.

I don't need a visa to live in Italy. And I see that you're backtracking. Citizenship is NOT what gives you the right to support a nation. You're saying it right here.

I have also never said that I was an Italian. Never claimed to be, never wanted to be. Where you get this from I don't know. I will probably live in Italy at some point in my life, but for me personally it will not change anything.

I have always supported Belgium.

 

[Zlatan]

If you lived there for four years and paid taxes, then it makes sense for you to support Sweden. Good one on you.

Sweden might have high taxes, but they dont tax kids in primary school FFS

 

[Seven]

And since you tied in culture to nationality in your other posts, it makes even less sense for you to support Italy. You're Belgian.

Osman supporting Italy is like me supporting Brazil. It makes no sense whatsoever, and there isn't an argument to use for it to make sense.

Would you say there's a Belgian nation?

 

[Bjerknes]

No, I'm rubbing it in your face. Big difference. I'm not living off Italian glory at all. Why would I? Hell, even if Belgium won I wouldn't consider it a personal achievement. That's not who I am.



Wait, what about citizenship? That doesn't matter anymore? And what about Amauri then? He's truly Italian?

You don't get it though. Italy has rich history in the game. Them (as in ITALIANS) winning doesn't bother me that much. Instead, what bothers me are the leechfucks who steal Italian glory and call it their own.

So in fact, you're a major bane to people like Holdon who are actually Italian. You should apologize to the real italians for bringing about distaste of their national team.


Citizenship does matter. Amauri could not play for the Azzurri because he did not have it. And if a nation refuses to give you citizenship, then why would you want to support it?

 

[swag]

Oh, Jeez... this again.

It is pretty simple. If you gain citizenship of a nation, you're a citizen of it. I mean DUH, that's pretty fucking simple.

I'll vote for that one.

If you don't have ties of blood to a country that you've never resided in then you shouldn't support that team.


In one sentence:If you were not born/raised or do not have any blood ties to a country then you shouldn't be a fan of that country.

So what if your entire spouse's family is all from a specific country?

 

[Seven]

You don't get it though. Italy has rich history in the game. Them (as in ITALIANS) winning doesn't bother me that much. Instead, what bothers me are the leechfucks who steal Italian glory and call it their own.

So in fact, you're a major bane to people like Holdon who are actually Italian. You should apologize to the real italians for bringing about distaste of their national team.


Citizenship does matter. Amauri could not play for the Azzurri because he did not have it. And if a nation refuses to give you citizenship, then why would you want to support it?

Ow. I see.

But what about the example of the guy who lived in Italy all his life but wasn't granted citizenship?

He can't support Italy?

But I thought it was about culture?

What culture does he have? His culture is Ghanaian after all? Despite not knowing a single Ghanaian and living in Italy?

 

[Bjerknes]

I don't need a visa to live in Italy. And I see that you're backtracking. Citizenship is NOT what gives you the right to support a nation. You're saying it right here.

I have also never said that I was an Italian. Never claimed to be, never wanted to be. Where you get this from I don't know. I will probably live in Italy at some point in my life, but for me personally it will not change anything.

I have always supported Belgium.

So there is no logical point in you supporting the Azzurri. You're not Italian, but the Azzurri is Italy's national team.

Citizenship does matter. I make special exceptions for some folks though who have been tormented by the system. But in the majority of cases, one can easily say you are or you are not. And with respect to sensibility, you have to be a complete idiot to cheer on somebody other than your own.

Why do you support Italy?

 

[Nicholas]

I think it comes down to personal belief. Say you were born an American but your family moved to Brazil when you were very young and you've grown up and spent all your life in Brazil. Would it not be natural to support Brazil? for me in that case you would support Brazil over the US. Only because you have lived there all your life.

Your pointing out some extreme cases here Andries. Which not one of them applies to the Azzurri fans on this forum. So in that case then yes people who support Italy on this forum are leeches who suck up the glory Italy has had.