Premier League 2021-22 (28 Viewers)

[BayernFan]

Just like Bayern after Flick?

Did Bayern return to mediocrity when Van Gaal left? When Heycnkes left? When Guardiola left?

We still been relevant, despite some setbacks under Kovac and now under Nagelsmann. Flick won us the treble, but managers in Bayern don't tend to last very long because of the constant turmoil inside the club.

My point is, having a manager like Klopp for so many years and SAF too for that matter is fantastic but it also means you're in deep shit when you have to replace them down the line. They became institutions and the face of the club.

United never recovered from it (lets see if Ten Hag can change that), and something tells me Liverpool will be in for a very difficult time as well.

I don't know how competent the Liverpool board is, but if it's like United then they're in for some grim times.

Anyway, I do get your point. There's some uncertainties around the club right now. Be it with Nagelsmann, Kahn and Brazzo. To me is it more the fact we lost Uli and KHR as board members that might make us irrelevant like 2002-2009 again. Kahn and Brazzo seems levels below them in the way of handling the club.

 

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[Xperd]

They worked out that patience because they had no expectations after 30 years of mediocrity.

This.

Incomparable to our situation. Juventus, much like Bayern, much like Real, are expected to win the league title every year. Liverpool are not or weren't for almost 30 years.

If we wanted to build a long term philosophy, we wouldn't have hired Allegri.

 

[Elvin]

Did Bayern return to mediocrity when Van Gaal left? When Heycnkes left? When Guardiola left?

We still been relevant, despite some setbacks under Kovac and now under Nagelsmann. Flick won us the treble, but managers in Bayern don't tend to last very long because of the constant turmoil inside the club.

My point is, having a manager like Klopp for so many years and SAF too for that matter is fantastic but it also means you're in deep shit when you have to replace them down the line. They became institutions and the face of the club.

United never recovered from it (lets see if Ten Hag can change that), and something tells me Liverpool will be in for a very difficult time as well.

I don't know how competent the Liverpool board is, but if it's like United then they're in for some grim times.

Anyway, I do get your point. There's some uncertainties around the club right now. Be it with Nagelsmann, Kahn and Brazzo. To me is it more the fact we lost Uli and KHR as board members that might make us irrelevant like 2002-2009 again. Kahn and Brazzo seems levels below them in the way of handling the club.

Just teasing you man

 

[Strickland]

I thought Pool will burnout just like Klopp's Dortmund after that whirlwind PL season a couple of years ago but what he's done post that season has been remarkable. Even more impressive than what he managed in his initial years.

Guess it also helps that they don't have to sell their best players like they did in the past.

If Pep stays on beyond his current contract too, it's going to be a long road towards the top for Union. If things go south once again, they could easily end up becoming the next Arsenal.

Thing is though that Liverpool and Man City are just 4 games out of 38 for ManUnited. If ManUnited do things right, they should return to being 85-90 point team regardless of how well Pool or City are built and how well theyre doing, imo that should be the target for ManUtd.

 

[Elvin]

Thing is though that Liverpool and Man City are just 4 games out of 38 for ManUnited. If ManUnited do things right, they should return to being 85-90 point team regardless of how well Pool or City are built and how well theyre doing, imo that should be the target for ManUtd.

fuck United. Liverpool (especially Klopp's) are so much more likable. England was the only major country whose historic flagman was (about to be) overtaken by another club (MU). Looks like they've reclaimed their throne.

I do wish Barcelona someday overtakes Real, and there was a real possibility, seems unlikely now tho.

 

[Xperd]

fuck United. Liverpool (especially Klopp's) are so much more likable. England was the only major country whose historic flagman was (about to be) overtaken by another club (MU). Looks like they've reclaimed their throne.

I do wish Barcelona someday overtakes Real, and there was a real possibility, seems unlikely now tho.

Both Union and Pool are historically big. Common man.

7 PL's, 5 FA cups, 1 CL pre SAF who took over in 1986. Not to mention they could've won a lot more if not for the Munich air disaster.

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Thing is though that Liverpool and Man City are just 4 games out of 38 for ManUnited. If ManUnited do things right, they should return to being 85-90 point team regardless of how well Pool or City are built and how well theyre doing, imo that should be the target for ManUtd.

Easier said that done imo.

Their squad level currently is far away from an 85-90 pt team and they've just hired an relatively unproven coach to get them back to the top. They have a long road ahead.

 

[Elvin]

Both Union and Pool are historically big. Common man.

7 PL's, 5 FA cups, 1 CL pre SAF who took over in 1986. Not to mention they could've won a lot more if not for the Munich air disaster.

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Easier said that done imo.

Their squad level currently is far away from an 85-90 pt team and they've just hired an relatively unproven coach to get them back to the top. They have a long road ahead.

I didn't say otherwise, just that Liverpool is the biggest English club of all time (flagman).

 

[Xperd]

I didn't say otherwise, just that Liverpool is the biggest English club of all time (flagman).

United are bigger for me. The premier league was basically built on Union's success in the 90s. They changed English football imho.

Can't consider a club the biggest in their country when they dint win a league title for three decades regardless of their past glories.

 

[Elvin]

United are bigger for me. The premier league was basically built on Union's success in the 90s. They changed English football imho.

Can't consider a club the biggest in their country when they dint win a league title for three decades regardless of their past glories.

the intervals don't matter, the overall numbers do.

 

[BayernFan]

United had greater players though. Be it all the way back to the 60's with the likes of George Best, Bobby Charlton and Denis Law. Their 90's and mid/late 00's teams is also better than what Liverpool ever had, although they caught up recently with the likes of Salah, Van Dijk, Alisson etc.

Liverpool just usually never had the biggest names compared to other big clubs. Look in a historic context how few of their former players that are considered some of the best in their respective positions.

That said, they're a bigger club than United historically. Especially in Europe.

 

[Xperd]

the intervals don't matter, the overall numbers do.

Can't just look at numbers alone especially when there's a massive sample size of 30 years of being irrelevant as a top club.

United was the driving force behind EPL's marketing in the 90s eventually leading to foreign investors pumping money in the league and making the league the financial juggernaut it is today.

Need to consider the size of the club. They still enjoy massive support both domestically and overseas.

All these factors make them a bigger club than Pool.

Oh and Union have 4 Ballon D'or winners, the highest from an English club whilst Pool have 1.

 

[Elvin]

Can't just look at numbers alone especially when there's a massive sample size of 30 years of being irrelevant as a top club.

United was the driving force behind EPL's marketing in the 90s eventually leading to foreign investors pumping money in the league and making the league the financial juggernaut it is today.

Need to consider the size of the club. They still enjoy massive support both domestically and overseas.

All these factors make them a bigger club than Pool.

Oh and Union have 4 Ballon D'or winners, the highest from an English club whilst Pool have 1.

lol @Ballon d'Or. It's arbitrary bullshit.
All that matters is three factors: League titles, CL titles, and overall number of trophies.
Whoever leads in at least two of these factors is the greatest club of that country; thus, Liverpool for England.

PS I don't distinguish between EPL era and the prior era, all that changed was the name AFAIC.

 

[Xperd]

lol @Ballon d'Or. It's bullshit. All that matters is three factors: League titles, CL titles, and overall number of titles. Liverpool has more of each.

Those Ballon D'or stats is just to illustrate that Union have had greater players in their history. Some of the best in their position.

Ajax have more CL's and league titles than United. Are they the bigger club?

Oh and United have 20 PL's whilst Pool has 19 unless you forgot to count.

 

[BayernFan]

lol @Ballon d'Or. It's arbitrary bullshit.
All that matters is three factors: League titles, CL titles, and overall number of trophies.
Whoever leads in at least two of these factors is the greatest club of that country; thus, Liverpool for England.

PS I don't distinguish between EPL era and the prior era, all that changed was the name AFAIC.

One time you made it as a factor between Bayern and Juve though

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Those Ballon D'or stats is just to illustrate that Union have had greater players in their history. Some of the best in their position.

Ajax have more CL's and league titles than United. Are they the bigger club?

Oh and United have 20 PL's whilst Pool has 19 unless you forgot to count.

I'd say they are though. In a historic context they are.

 

[Cerval]

Can't just look at numbers alone especially when there's a massive sample size of 30 years of being irrelevant as a top club.

United was the driving force behind EPL's marketing in the 90s eventually leading to foreign investors pumping money in the league and making the league the financial juggernaut it is today.

Need to consider the size of the club. They still enjoy massive support both domestically and overseas.

All these factors make them a bigger club than Pool.

Oh and Union have 4 Ballon D'or winners, the highest from an English club whilst Pool have 1.

I understand your point. However you might also be saying that because United was good during the time you started following football. There may be older fans that may disagree.

 

[Elvin]

Those Ballon D'or stats is just to illustrate that Union have had greater players in their history. Some of the best in their position.

Ajax have more CL's and league titles than United. Are they the bigger club?

Oh and United have 20 PL's whilst Pool has 19 unless you forgot to count.

International ratings are trickier. My formula is precisely for figuring out a specific country's greatest club. I think's it's pretty objective

Same answer to you @BayernFan

 

[Xperd]

I understand your point. However you might also be saying that because United was good during the time you started following football. There may be older fans that may disagree.

True but even in terms of trophies, Pool leads United only in Europe

Domestically, United are ahead both in terms of PL's and domestic cups.

Don't we have a similar situation in Italy? Just saying....

 

[Elvin]

True but even in terms of trophies, Pool leads United only in Europe

Domestically, United are ahead both in terms of PL's and domestic cups.

Don't we have a similar situation in Italy? Just saying....

Wait, does United have more trophies than Liverpool overall (not only domestically, but overall)?

I count this as wins, so there are three factrors whoever wins in at least two is the greatest.

For Italy:

Most league titles: Juventus
Most overall trophies: Juventus
Most CLs: Milan

So Juve wins 2-1.

 

[Xperd]

Wait, does United have more trophies than Liverpool overall (not only domestically, but overall)?

20 PL's to Pool's 19

12 FA cups to Pool's 7

Edit :
The EFL cup, Pool have 9 while Union have 5

 

[Elvin]

20 PL's to Pool's 19

12 FA cups to Pool's 7

include international trophies too. That's what I mean by the 'overall trophies' factor (counting EVERYTHING, big or small).

Let's do Spain:

Most leagues: Real
Most CLs: Real
Most overall trophies: I think Barcelona

Real wins 2-1