Perfect example.
Anti-science paranoids really need to stop harming others, let alone themselves.
Anti-science paranoids really need to stop harming others, let alone themselves.
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Pharmaceutical Mafia (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter giovanotti
- Start date
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Sorry for quoting the whole of these two but the whole of both posts contains valid points.
I have been to Lusaka before, but you're right I've enver spent a large ammount of time in Africa, but then again I don't work for a pharmacuetical company or work for FIFA but I can talk about it.
I am very aware of the economic situation in Sub-Saharan Africa having just studied it in depth, the lack of Net FDI and multilateral Aid is worrying however, the AID figures for the past 10 years from just one Irish NGO total around 1BN euro, the money is there, just poorly spent.
I fail to see how poverty necessitates sex with multiple partners, not to mention the fact that UNAIDS provide a huge ammount of free condoms to SSA, admittedly not enough but certainly an ammount that should drastically reduce the rate/spread of HIV/AIDS.
The issue of development in SSA is not purely fiscal, there government, social and free-rider problems with AID and Development.Don't preach to me as if I'm some completely uninformed dolt, I know enough to know that poverty excuse is one that hasn't been prevelent in development studies since the fall of communism.
I call anybody, anywhere that has unprotected sex with multiple partners an idiot, don't make it a race issue.
There is huge debate about the sexual transmission of Hep C.
So by your locic everything disease that has not been conclusively 'solved' is some global conspiracy?
I have been to Lusaka before, but you're right I've enver spent a large ammount of time in Africa, but then again I don't work for a pharmacuetical company or work for FIFA but I can talk about it.
I am very aware of the economic situation in Sub-Saharan Africa having just studied it in depth, the lack of Net FDI and multilateral Aid is worrying however, the AID figures for the past 10 years from just one Irish NGO total around 1BN euro, the money is there, just poorly spent.
I fail to see how poverty necessitates sex with multiple partners, not to mention the fact that UNAIDS provide a huge ammount of free condoms to SSA, admittedly not enough but certainly an ammount that should drastically reduce the rate/spread of HIV/AIDS.
The issue of development in SSA is not purely fiscal, there government, social and free-rider problems with AID and Development.Don't preach to me as if I'm some completely uninformed dolt, I know enough to know that poverty excuse is one that hasn't been prevelent in development studies since the fall of communism.
I call anybody, anywhere that has unprotected sex with multiple partners an idiot, don't make it a race issue.
There is huge debate about the sexual transmission of Hep C.
So by your locic everything disease that has not been conclusively 'solved' is some global conspiracy?
OP
First of all not all of the AIDS cases in SSA are caused by unprotected sex, many cases are related to non sterile medical instruments and that all comes from poverty and very poor health system.But let's not speculate about the unjust distribution of poverty and richness around the world,that's another issue.
The main point is that I accepted the approach that sick or heavily people should not be called "idiots".
HEP C (clearly stated) that can be transffered by:
the blood (transfusion,parenterally,transplants, perinatal way) and unprotected sex).
30-40% of HCV infected don't have a clear risk.
As for the "unsolved diseases" I'm just saying that it is possible.
Evil people exist (huge number of them) and money is their religion.
The main point is that I accepted the approach that sick or heavily people should not be called "idiots".
HEP C (clearly stated) that can be transffered by:
the blood (transfusion,parenterally,transplants, perinatal way) and unprotected sex).
30-40% of HCV infected don't have a clear risk.
As for the "unsolved diseases" I'm just saying that it is possible.
Evil people exist (huge number of them) and money is their religion.
Fair enough if we aren't doing the speculation then we have to discount the poverty reason then don't we?
Again you seem willing to use the poverty argument to respond to my arguments.
I'll just say this, if you look at the figures, it's becomes blatantly obvious that SSA has failed utterly to put Aid to good use, whilst the Rich countrys see it as a matter of money and not effecting social change etc.
People Elect Governent->Government is ineffective->Government relies on aid and becomes a free rider realising that if aid is not spent properly more aid still comes-->Government pumps money into wrong sectors of the economy--> wealth and health deterioirate-->Diseases spread
My three main points were:
Finally, any type of 'religion' be it for money or a deity is a bad idea. Worship something that is real and has value makes more sense than worshipping a ficticous deity imo.
Edit:Hep C is transmitted through blood you just said it their, so it's not an STI wihch is what I said.
Again you seem willing to use the poverty argument to respond to my arguments.
I'll just say this, if you look at the figures, it's becomes blatantly obvious that SSA has failed utterly to put Aid to good use, whilst the Rich countrys see it as a matter of money and not effecting social change etc.
People Elect Governent->Government is ineffective->Government relies on aid and becomes a free rider realising that if aid is not spent properly more aid still comes-->Government pumps money into wrong sectors of the economy--> wealth and health deterioirate-->Diseases spread
My three main points were:
- The lack of societal change and political accountability is 100% the fault of the people within the country.
- People who have unprotected sex with multiple partners has lead to HIV explosion (according to UNAIDS)
- At a certain point SSA needs to take responsibility for it's own future and stop having ridiculous scapegoats like Pharmaceutical companies.
Finally, any type of 'religion' be it for money or a deity is a bad idea. Worship something that is real and has value makes more sense than worshipping a ficticous deity imo.
Edit:Hep C is transmitted through blood you just said it their, so it's not an STI wihch is what I said.
OP
No,Irish Zebra, I just wanted to explain that giving money for aid is a masquerade.
For example I found an article that USA banking firm "Golden Sax" made the greatest profit ever during this year(by the way economical crisis is still on) and they decided to give the Christmas bonus to every of their employee (which is gonna be 700 000 $ yes unbelievably but true) while the UN don't have enough funds, they need 200 mil $ ,to feed 10 mil dying mostly Ethiopians.
So much about aid and justice.
Anyhow,I agree with you about the chain of the country functioning but you need to know that it is not 100% on the people to chose their own government,you can see so many examples throughout the history: pro US governments in Southern America supported by the US (even military way),so many Arabic countries that have pro US governments or Royal families,and even Serbia had one man bigger than any other which was used to cause wars all over the Balkan area but it was proven that for the last 4 years of his rule he didn't have enough support to remain as the leader of the country but he was needed for the very last war which was on 1999. It is not always like you said.
And one more thing Hep C can be transfered by unprotected sex I said that so many times since the start of this topic and it is proven.
For example I found an article that USA banking firm "Golden Sax" made the greatest profit ever during this year(by the way economical crisis is still on) and they decided to give the Christmas bonus to every of their employee (which is gonna be 700 000 $ yes unbelievably but true) while the UN don't have enough funds, they need 200 mil $ ,to feed 10 mil dying mostly Ethiopians.
So much about aid and justice.
Anyhow,I agree with you about the chain of the country functioning but you need to know that it is not 100% on the people to chose their own government,you can see so many examples throughout the history: pro US governments in Southern America supported by the US (even military way),so many Arabic countries that have pro US governments or Royal families,and even Serbia had one man bigger than any other which was used to cause wars all over the Balkan area but it was proven that for the last 4 years of his rule he didn't have enough support to remain as the leader of the country but he was needed for the very last war which was on 1999. It is not always like you said.
And one more thing Hep C can be transfered by unprotected sex I said that so many times since the start of this topic and it is proven.
That's what I was trying to say too, something must have gone wrong there 
The idiom 'people get the governments that they deserve' springs to mind, the irish government was invloved in a corruption scandal a few years ago, the voters re-elected them and now there is even more scandal., I don't think we have any right to complain against the scandal if we re-elected them.
My main point was that African Accountability is not thought about, at some point in time you have to say 'alright, you've been given aid and help you've misused it for 30 years we're not helping you until you fix your government'.
I know it can be passed through sexual contact, but that is not the only way it can be passed, as you said it's a blood disease.
The idiom 'people get the governments that they deserve' springs to mind, the irish government was invloved in a corruption scandal a few years ago, the voters re-elected them and now there is even more scandal., I don't think we have any right to complain against the scandal if we re-elected them.
My main point was that African Accountability is not thought about, at some point in time you have to say 'alright, you've been given aid and help you've misused it for 30 years we're not helping you until you fix your government'.
I know it can be passed through sexual contact, but that is not the only way it can be passed, as you said it's a blood disease.
Of course you can talk about but calling people idiots for contracting a disease is infact idiotic on its own.Visiting an african country & working there are two totally different things.What you see is not what you get,as NPO's love to window dress in order to increase funding.
Studying & experiencing sub saharan africa are two completely different things.The are many factors that are not documented to make various organizations look effective.
You really have to be naive to think that 60% of money donated reaches it's intended target.Do you realize how much corruption exists?Not only in africa but in asia & south america too.Various governments make it very difficult for humanitarian groups to work timeously & efficiently.Infact some employees of various groups steal from these organizations & line their pockets,in war torn countries military rebel groups steal food,medical supplies & temporary housing equipment.Customs & border officials also get in the act & deplete stocks meant for the needy.It's a deep filtering process that creates severe havoc & ultimately hurts those that need it most.
Poverty & the ever increasing HIV/AIDS infection rate in sub saharan africa are inextricably linked.Not everybody that sleeps with multiple partners is promiscuous.In some parts of the world,polygamy is a norm.This has carried on for years & some just dont think they can contract the virus from their spouse.
Most here have very little or no education at all & take advice from traditional doctors.Some that have HIV/AIDS believe that having sex with a virgin or even a baby will cure them from HIV/AIDS.Others believe consuming human flesh or drinking blood will cure them.These people need to be educated & informed in their language,how can this happen when most have no tv's,radios or access to the internet?
Have you ever gone hungry for days on end?Many women in sub saharan africa have no skills or education & they use the only thing they can think of to put bread on the table,which is selling their bodies!
It's very easy to have ideals from the comfort & safety of your home,when you dont experience a lack of food or any basic necessities.
I'm not defending those that sleep around but there are many circumstances that you have never even considered.
As for the condoms,that's another load of bullocks.Yeah lets dish out condoms & hope for the best,that should solve the problem.Its like dishing out food to hungry people.You dont give them handouts,you teach them how to fend for their selves.Some years back we did that & we bought some land & taught the locals about farming & sustaining themselves.Now we don't donate anything there,infact they grow enough to feed the community & have enough to sell to local restaurants.They are completely self sufficient.
Do you realize how many faulty condoms were shipped off to africa? Even when they do reach the ports or borders,most are stolen & repacked for resale.Condoms are not the main answer here,educating the masses needs to happen in order to contain the spread of the disease.
That being said,various african governments fail to protect their people.In africa,governments dont take education too seriously as the can maintain power for extended periods of time & it's easier to plunder the countries financial coffers when most dont question,what happens.
All in all,africa has help itself or else nothing will ever change.
No i never made it a race issue.You labelled Africans as idiots for not using contraception & contracting HIV/AIDS.I said your statement was idiotic & ignorant!
Infact this is still an stupid thing to say because how do you not have any sympathy for someone that's going to die,a slow horrible death?
Many youngsters are afraid to go to hospitals & clinics for free contraception,because of that bs attitude of yours.Instead of getting help they are judged & insulted.
There are people that contract HIV/AIDS by unfaithful spouses & rape victims.Are they idiots? I run an NPO & ive seen doctors contract HIV/AIDS by accident,helping people in war torn countries.
Having unprotected sex is not the only means of contracting the disease & contraception is not 100% safe,the only thing that is,abstinence is.
You need to practice some tolerance & compassion because you never know when this disease could impact your life,whether it be a relative,friend or business colleague!
Studying & experiencing sub saharan africa are two completely different things.The are many factors that are not documented to make various organizations look effective.
You really have to be naive to think that 60% of money donated reaches it's intended target.Do you realize how much corruption exists?Not only in africa but in asia & south america too.Various governments make it very difficult for humanitarian groups to work timeously & efficiently.Infact some employees of various groups steal from these organizations & line their pockets,in war torn countries military rebel groups steal food,medical supplies & temporary housing equipment.Customs & border officials also get in the act & deplete stocks meant for the needy.It's a deep filtering process that creates severe havoc & ultimately hurts those that need it most.
Poverty & the ever increasing HIV/AIDS infection rate in sub saharan africa are inextricably linked.Not everybody that sleeps with multiple partners is promiscuous.In some parts of the world,polygamy is a norm.This has carried on for years & some just dont think they can contract the virus from their spouse.
Most here have very little or no education at all & take advice from traditional doctors.Some that have HIV/AIDS believe that having sex with a virgin or even a baby will cure them from HIV/AIDS.Others believe consuming human flesh or drinking blood will cure them.These people need to be educated & informed in their language,how can this happen when most have no tv's,radios or access to the internet?
Have you ever gone hungry for days on end?Many women in sub saharan africa have no skills or education & they use the only thing they can think of to put bread on the table,which is selling their bodies!
It's very easy to have ideals from the comfort & safety of your home,when you dont experience a lack of food or any basic necessities.
I'm not defending those that sleep around but there are many circumstances that you have never even considered.
As for the condoms,that's another load of bullocks.Yeah lets dish out condoms & hope for the best,that should solve the problem.Its like dishing out food to hungry people.You dont give them handouts,you teach them how to fend for their selves.Some years back we did that & we bought some land & taught the locals about farming & sustaining themselves.Now we don't donate anything there,infact they grow enough to feed the community & have enough to sell to local restaurants.They are completely self sufficient.
Do you realize how many faulty condoms were shipped off to africa? Even when they do reach the ports or borders,most are stolen & repacked for resale.Condoms are not the main answer here,educating the masses needs to happen in order to contain the spread of the disease.
That being said,various african governments fail to protect their people.In africa,governments dont take education too seriously as the can maintain power for extended periods of time & it's easier to plunder the countries financial coffers when most dont question,what happens.
All in all,africa has help itself or else nothing will ever change.
No i never made it a race issue.You labelled Africans as idiots for not using contraception & contracting HIV/AIDS.I said your statement was idiotic & ignorant!
Infact this is still an stupid thing to say because how do you not have any sympathy for someone that's going to die,a slow horrible death?
Many youngsters are afraid to go to hospitals & clinics for free contraception,because of that bs attitude of yours.Instead of getting help they are judged & insulted.
There are people that contract HIV/AIDS by unfaithful spouses & rape victims.Are they idiots? I run an NPO & ive seen doctors contract HIV/AIDS by accident,helping people in war torn countries.
Having unprotected sex is not the only means of contracting the disease & contraception is not 100% safe,the only thing that is,abstinence is.
You need to practice some tolerance & compassion because you never know when this disease could impact your life,whether it be a relative,friend or business colleague!
Okay so, as theres a fair bit here I gonna split it up into main points.
1.An NPO is an NGO right? So you are maintaining that NGOs make the situation appear better to increase funding?
2.I never made any claim that 100% of funds reached their intended recipients. If we take 10% as a figure, we are still talking large sums here in total (addmitedly places like Burundi recieved opnly 30Million dollars aid alst year which is despicable
3.Well of course poverty and aids are linked, I believe the point I made was during a few posts where the povery argument was 'disallowed'.
4. The Bolded Points: Firstly let me point out that I'm not talking about the non-democratic states here because both our reasoning goes out the window with them. The bolded areas are areas of political and social choice, Somebody that chooses ineffective leadership and endangers themselves of contracting a fatal disease due to their acceptance of societal leadership, now whatever way you want to spin that, that IS idiotic. I'll put the disgraceful sex-trade in SAA in the category of controlable domestic conditions, feel free to disagree.
5.It's also very easy to have warped ideals if you are involved on a personal basis with the issue, that is all I'll say on that Byrone. You maye also notice that I haven't called your point a load of bollocks.
6.So my pro-contraception attitude is putting people of going to clinics, now that is staggering.
7.I seriously doubt that the majority of HIV/AIDS transmissions occur through such acts as rape and infedelity. We kind of have to talk about the majority here due to it being a regional/global issue not individual cases, you can disagree with this as everything I'm saying. As for the Condom issue, my point that I think I made clearly was that the levels were insufficient but that even those level should have slowed down the rate of transmission.
8. I actually know people who have contracted HIV/AIDS, albeit obviously no as many as you seeing as you run an NGO but I find it quite condescending that you would make a sweeping generalisation about me as a person.
1.An NPO is an NGO right? So you are maintaining that NGOs make the situation appear better to increase funding?
2.I never made any claim that 100% of funds reached their intended recipients. If we take 10% as a figure, we are still talking large sums here in total (addmitedly places like Burundi recieved opnly 30Million dollars aid alst year which is despicable
3.Well of course poverty and aids are linked, I believe the point I made was during a few posts where the povery argument was 'disallowed'.
4. The Bolded Points: Firstly let me point out that I'm not talking about the non-democratic states here because both our reasoning goes out the window with them. The bolded areas are areas of political and social choice, Somebody that chooses ineffective leadership and endangers themselves of contracting a fatal disease due to their acceptance of societal leadership, now whatever way you want to spin that, that IS idiotic. I'll put the disgraceful sex-trade in SAA in the category of controlable domestic conditions, feel free to disagree.
5.It's also very easy to have warped ideals if you are involved on a personal basis with the issue, that is all I'll say on that Byrone. You maye also notice that I haven't called your point a load of bollocks.
6.So my pro-contraception attitude is putting people of going to clinics, now that is staggering.
7.I seriously doubt that the majority of HIV/AIDS transmissions occur through such acts as rape and infedelity. We kind of have to talk about the majority here due to it being a regional/global issue not individual cases, you can disagree with this as everything I'm saying. As for the Condom issue, my point that I think I made clearly was that the levels were insufficient but that even those level should have slowed down the rate of transmission.
8. I actually know people who have contracted HIV/AIDS, albeit obviously no as many as you seeing as you run an NGO but I find it quite condescending that you would make a sweeping generalisation about me as a person.
