Pele, Maradona and..Zidane? (1 Viewer)

[Hydde]

what the *** does that mean ? Juve won the CL in 96, he came and didn't win in 97 and 98 (after failing the uefa cup final himself in 95).


that's just not true and wishful thinking.

So it's safe to say I don't agree.

Yes, but he eventually did with Madrid, in the final and scoring a beautifull goal.
Those kind of things happen, and we cant completely blame it on him, as all his other teamates failed to deliver too(in the juve runner ups).

And i dont know why u are so surprised. Im not inventing that myself you know, he in fact leaved Juventus to get rid of that phantom called CL, and eventually won it. What matters here is not how many times he failed..... but the fact that he won it, and by playing an outsanding campaign and by saying "im here" in the final game with a marvelous goal, is somthing that makes him different from the rest.
Ill even say that is one of the difference between him and champions like Del Piero.

One man said once " I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom."

how is Zidane better than Nedved ? Guiding his team (much worse) to two incredible euros (96, 04) and playing incredibly in Juventus, IMO even more beautifully (and winning the ballon d'or too) - better shots, amazing left foot, amazing fighting spirit and technique together. Just an example.

Maybe it's because for me, there's a player who stands above everyone.

Nedved, from the point that they are not the same type of player. Nedved focus his play more on the physical, while Zidane is a much better technic player. What i can say that Nedved outstand Zidane, is that his fighting spirit is stronger and his shot is stronger too, not better.

The difference between the 2 is that one of them failed to win every trophy, while the other won everything and was decisive in the games that counted.

Nedved is guts and winning mentality, Zidane is class and efficiency.

And btw im a huge Nedved fan too, but there is a line between them if u ask me.

Wishfull thinking?, i dont think so, the history talk by itself.

 

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[ForzaJuve82]

MARADONA .. IT'S MY FUN!!

 

[Hydde]

Of course he's decisive in big games. Some big games. And some he's not. One can't escape the fact that before the 98 WC final, he was deemed as a bit of a loser and a choker in big games after losing in 3 consecutive european finals. Also in WC he was criticized a lot for that foul and people were waiting to see whether he'll finally step up. These are the facts. Of course his carrear took an amazing spin in that sense. You have to be lucky sometimes no doubt.

but the fact here is that he succeced in the end... in all the objetives he wanted to.

With pain in my heart ill say this but this is what difference players like him, to players like Del Piero.

 

[mnementh]

Ill even say that is one of the difference between him and champions like Del Piero.

stop right there. Del Piero scored a much better goal, in backheel, as a SUB , in one of those finals where players didn't "shopw up". Not impressed. Del Piero's volley against Monaco was better too

Nedved, from the point that they are not the same type of player. Nedved focus his play more on the physical, while Zidane is a much better technic player.

Zizuuuuuuuu has more finnesse and all, but Nedved is as technical as they come - sublime passes and everything.

his shot is stronger too, not better.

stronger = better.

The difference between the 2 is that one of them failed to win every trophy, while the other won everything and was decisive in the games that counted.

Nedved was missing from the CL 2003 final. Will he have choked like Zidane in european finals 96 (uefa), 97 and 98 ? We don't know Nedved carried the czech republic, a team with far less quality than France, which will be remembred not because of Zidane in 1998 (he'll be remembered for the final no doubt) but because of it's amazing TEAM PLAY.

Nedved is guts and winning mentality, Zidane is class and efficiency.

ok, and nedved is class too.

And btw im a huge Nedved fan too, but there is a line between them if u ask me.

i realise that, but i don't agree. Nedved being eastern european also doesn't make him as big as Zidane simply because Zidane is french.

 

[Lilith]

Lucky? The guy can play. He is getting old admittedly but he was excellent for Juve! That's sheer determination and skill and luck has zero to do with it.

Henry hasn't performed in the WC but he is gold for Arsenal. Neither has Ronaldino. Sometimes if you don't have the support of your team what can you do? This is not a one man show.

 

[Azzurri7]

Whos Pele? What a joke. Played all his career in Brazil and the MLS in the 70s. If the MLS sucks now what was it 30 years ago?
Maradona #1 of all time. Close 2nd Zidane
Others Cruyff, Baggio, Romario

You're actually being harsh here, forget the MLS and these things, Pele won the world cup at the age of 17. There's no way to call Pele a Joke....no way...He's a Legend and we all know that.

 

[mnementh]

but the fact here is that he succeced in the end... in all the objetives he wanted to.

good for him. Like I said, if he wins this WC, he can be considered as big as Pele maybe... who has won 3 WC's and scored in 4 of them !!! Zidane only scored in that final, did shite in 2002 (injured partly) and now there's here. If anything, it's premature to the extreme. The 98 french team was based on team play... Zidane didn't lead france - the whole team worked together. This is different from Maradona/Baggio who really did lead their teams to the finals.

 

[Hydde]

stop right there. Del Piero scored a much better goal, in backheel, as a SUB , in one of those finals where players didn't "shopw up". Not impressed. Del Piero's volley against Monaco was better too

yes thats was nice and all, but what happened after that marvelous back heel?, they lost, they failed, HE failed.
Zidane failed couple of times too, he he succeded later, and in fashion too.

Zizuuuuuuuu has more finnesse and all, but Nedved is as technical as they come - sublime passes and everything.

Ill not deny that, Nedved has some technicality too, but not as much as Zidane.

stronger = better.

That is debatable, brute power can be beaten by intelligence. Zidane doesnt have a rocket a la Nedved or R.Carlos, but the finese in his shots will never dissapear, while with Nedved, we are missing the "Czech Cannon" in his leg since that 2003 and his ballon d or campaign.

Nedved was missing from the CL 2003 final. Will he have choked like Zidane in european finals 96 (uefa), 97 and 98 ? We don't know Nedved carried the czech republic, a team with far less quality than France, which will be remembred not because of Zidane in 1998 (he'll be remembered for the final no doubt) but because of it's amazing TEAM PLAY.

Im very sure that Nedved would have taken Juventus to the trophy in that CL final, sadly he wasnt there and we cant add that achievement in his tally

ok, and nedved is class too.

yeah

i realise that, but i don't agree. Nedved being eastern european also doesn't make him as big as Zidane simply because Zidane is french

no, i really dont think that the nationality is taking part in this........... if Nedved was the one who scored 2 goals in the 98 final with the Czech, did a volley in the CL final and won it with Madrid, and guided Czech to another WC semifinal in 2006, then the history would have been different for him.

 

[mnementh]

yes thats was nice and all, but what happened after that marvelous back heel?, they lost, they failed, HE failed.

so del piero needed to go and stand in the goal as a keeper ? what you say doesn't make sense.

That is debatable, brute power can be beaten by intelligence. Zidane doesnt have a rocket a la Nedved or R.Carlos, but the finese in his shots will never dissapear, while with Nedved, we are missing the "Czech Cannon" in his leg since that 2003 and his ballon d or campaign.

watch the many goals from nedved from the last campaigns too, I didn't see anything disappear. I rarely see Zidane scoring.

Im very sure that Nedved would have taken Juventus to the trophy in that CL final, sadly he wasnt there and we cant add that achievement in his tally

yes, ok. not his fault then.

scored 2 goals in the 98 final .

they were pretty ordinary goals if you ask me btw. corner-bad defense-header.X2. even Ronaldo's goals in 2002 final were prettier. So why is Zidane better than Ronaldo in your eyes ?

 

[Hydde]

good for him. Like I said, if he wins this WC, he can be considered as big as Pele maybe... who has won 3 WC's and scored in 4 of them !!! Zidane only scored in that final, did shite in 2002 (injured partly) and now there's here. If anything, it's premature to the extreme. The 98 french team was based on team play... Zidane didn't lead france - the whole team worked together. This is different from Maradona/Baggio who really did lead their teams to the finals.

Maradona succeded in his objective. Zidane too.
Maybe in being harsh here but Baggio failed (he did wonders in that cup but sadly ,SADLY he missed the most important PK of his career).

 

[mnementh]

ok... that's a legitimate criteria but one doesn't have to agree with choosing that paramater.

 

[Hydde]

so del piero needed to go and stand in the goal as a keeper ? what you say doesn't make sense.

Yes it makes sense. Maybe he didnt failed as an individual with that goal, but he lost that match, the same goes with his teammates.

Im rating this from the view of Ability-success.

watch the many goals from nedved from the last campaigns too, I didn't see anything disappear. I rarely see Zidane scoring.

Nothing in comparison with his 2003 campaign.

yes, ok. not his fault then.

even that is debatable, as he did that unnecesarry foul on macmananam in the semis.

they were pretty ordinary goals if you ask me btw. corner-bad defense-header.X2. even Ronaldo's goals in 2002 final were prettier. So why is Zidane better than Ronaldo in your eyes ?

Goals in the end, goals that took his team to glory.
Well first of all, they are not in the same position, but since we are talking about achievements/ability, i can clearly say that Zidane has been a much more consistant thru his whole career. Ronaldo has been dissapointing after that ugly injury overall. He did a great WC but we need to remember that even before that WC in 2002 hsi form was poor as hell. In fact he won the FIFA worldf player just because that WC. Ronaldo Shoked horribly in the 98 final to say the least and shoked again in the last game against the frenchs in germany.

Zidane stepped in both of those matches.

 

[Akerman]

It's hard to tell who's the best ever, because I was born 1985, so I havn't seen those old superstars play. But from what I've gathered, Cruyff might be the best ever.

 

[Majed]

Yes Arturo. IMO, Zidane is worthy of the highest status in the world of football. He's reached that level of untouchables.

 

[mnementh]

Well first of all, they are not in the same position

You were talking about greatest football players, not about players in a particular position if I understand right. So being a forward/offensive midfielder is not that relevant. What I am not convinced is what differenae Zidane and what makes him better than others ? I think it's a personal view. As to titles, many have won more. As to technique and skills, it's debatable, and as for personal glory and success that's also widespread. I do not see at this point any compelling reason to rate Zidane higher, and I remain unconvinced.

I am convinced there's something special in winning 3 WC's + scoring in 4 of them (Pele) and by leading a club like Napoli to huge unprecedent success and then your NT too for two or 3 world cups. That's why these players stand above the rest in the end.

Van Basten, Baggio, Cruyff, Platini, Puskas, Eusebio, Di Stefano, and recent Ronaldo, Del Piero (for me the best) etc don't stand any less for Zidane for sure IMO in all legitimiate criteria - either ability OR success.

 

[Majed]

You were talking about greatest football players, not about players in a particular position if I understand right. So being a forward/offensive midfielder is not that relevant. What I am not convinced is what differenae Zidane and what makes him better than others ? I think it's a personal view. As to titles, many have won more. As to technique and skills, it's debatable, and as for personal glory and success that's also widespread. I do not see at this point any compelling reason to rate Zidane higher, and I remain unconvinced.

I am convinced there's something special in winning 3 WC's + scoring in 4 of them (Pele) and by leading a club like Napoli to huge unprecedent success and then your NT too for two or 3 world cups. That's why these players stand above the rest in the end.

Van Basten, Baggio, Cruyff, Platini, Puskas, Eusebio, Di Stefano, and recent Ronaldo, Del Piero (for me the best) etc don't stand any less for Zidane for sure IMO in all legitimiate criteria - either ability OR success.

How many other players can you name who have won EVERYTHING on a personal or team level? Ask yourself what the French national team is/was without Zidane. Using your own examples, isn't it special to guide a national team to its first World Cup as well as a following that up with a European title?

If you suggest that the French had a good team, then compare that with Pele's Brazil squads. Also, look at France in 2002 when ZZ was injured.

That's success. As for technique, try naming a single weakness in Zidane's game.

Arturo did a good job describing him. I'd like to add that his positioning is amazing. In addition, for a player who's given such freedom on the field, he doesn't hold back on the dirty defensive work.

Crosses, shots, passes, chips, freeckicks, corners, headers, backheels, first-touches. Excluding his last couple of years (age), he has been very consistant and reliable.

Please name a more complete player if you can.

 

[Hydde]

How many other players can you name who have won EVERYTHING on a personal or team level? Ask yourself what the French national team is/was without Zidane. Using your own examples, isn't it special to guide a national team to its first World Cup as well as a following that up with a European title?

If you suggest that the French had a good team, then compare that with Pele's Brazil squads. Also, look at France in 2002 when ZZ was injured.

That's success. As for technique, try naming a single weakness in Zidane's game.

Arturo did a good job describing him. I'd like to add that his positioning is amazing. In addition, for a player who's given such freedom on the field, he doesn't hold back on the dirty defensive work.

Crosses, shots, passes, chips, freeckicks, corners, headers, backheels, first-touches. Excluding his last couple of years (age), he has been very consistant and reliable.

Please name a more complete player if you can.

Amen to that.
What he did with france can be easily comparable with Maradona´s and Pele´s achievements, and even when France´s was and is a super team, They relied on Zidane a lot to the point that after the 2002 failure, everyone was saying that witouth Zidane they were nothing.Zidane game is practically flawless, the only bad point of him is that he lose patience quite easil and have gotten stupid red cards in his career, which is not the case of players like Alessandro , who is an exmaple in and off the field. And even with that, Zidane is still a great man.

And talking about Pele, let me remind you that(from the tapes i have seen) Pele´s Brazil was just above the rest in those cups..to the point that it seems they were having a walk in the park with most of the defenders in those cups. Pele was surrounded by a hell bunch of great players, maybe equal or better than him. It makes things a lot easier for you.
The one that genuinely was one man army was Maradona.

 

[Ali]

Personally I rate Zidane above Pele & Maradona. Majed summed it up nicely.

Hey Majed. Good to see you around.

 

[Hydde]

Hey Majed. Good to see you around.

 

[mnementh]

... he lose patience quite easil and have gotten stupid red cards in his career, which is not the case of players like Alessandro , who is an exmaple in and off the field.

this I liked to hear !

The one that genuinely was practically one man army was Maradona.

btw, Del Piero once said that it's not true and in his opinion Argentina had a great squad.

I still don't see what was great about zidane up to the 98 final (during the tournament), especially that he missed some matches and failed to score. It wasn't like he was giving assists all over the place throughout the stages. It was a group effort, defensive, with deschamps and the rest of the guys IMO. You're surely not suggesting he was leading his team like those that did. In fact, there was huge criticism and speculation about him up till that final in the world and french media. 2002 is a different story, the fact they suk so much without him says more about them than about him. anyway, he did play in 2002. He did step up in france NOW so we have to wait and see. He didn't really step up in real madrid for how long now...