Paulo Dybala (135 Viewers)

[TheLaz]

This has little do with fair chances.

If Zaza is the most active in training, rightfully he's the one to start?

Just because you join in on a big money move, you're not obliged to play ahead of others? What would Allegri make his decisions on if it isn't the work players put into training? It's a disease if we start favoring players only because Marotta bought them. Allegri is smart enough to know this. Team management.

One must prove his value.

NOTE: I'm not saying Dybala shouldn't start. I'm reasoning why Allegri isn't starting him.

 

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[Osman]

And your reasoning is failing. There is little noticeable reasons for it, Allegri himself can't give a reason.

Bottom line is Zaza has effort but little quality, so he shouldn't start ahead of those who do, unless he shows more then physically throwing around his body, it won't change.

 

[Post Ironic]

If Zaza is the most active in training, rightfully he's the one to start?

Just because you join in on a big money move, you're not obliged to play ahead of others? What would Allegri make his decisions on if it isn't the work players put into training? It's a disease if we start favoring players only because Marotta bought them. Allegri is smart enough to know this. Team management.

One must prove his value.

NOTE: I'm not saying Dybala shouldn't start. I'm reasoning why Allegri isn't starting him.

Dybala has easily proved just how good he can be by scoring 4 goals-1 assist in his first 500 minutes with Juve. He's our top scorer. Him and Cuadrado create more chances than any other players on this team. Dybala and Morata formed our first very effective strike partnership in Serie A this year against Bologna right before the international break.

It's ridiculous that Allegri wouldn't give those two a run of games after that performance.

 

[TheLaz]

And your reasoning is failing. There is little noticeable reasons for it, Allegri himself can't give a reason.

Bottom line is Zaza has effort but little quality, so he shouldn't start of those who do, unless he shows more then physically throwing around his body, it won't change.

I agree with your view. It frustrates me to see Dybala sidelined as well, but let me underline my point of team management:
So far Dybala has played 423 minutes and Zaza 266. Allegri is favoring Dybala - in your opinion he's just not favoring him enough.

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Dybala has easily proved just how good he can be by scoring 4 goals-1 assist in his first 500 minutes with Juve. He's our top scorer. Him and Cuadrado create more chances than any other players on this team. Dybala and Morata formed our first very effective strike partnership in Serie A this year against Bologna right before the international break.

It's ridiculous that Allegri wouldn't give those two a run of games after that performance.

Agreed. But Zaza was great against Inter. We must be fair to him when he does great. Dybala should start tonight. If not, I have no explanation.

 

[Osman]

Great how? What did he do? All he did was he worked hard, is that good enough, let alone GREAT?

 

[TheLaz]

Great how? What did he do? All he did was he worked hard, is that good enough, let alone GREAT?

Yeah okay, he wasn't great, but he did very well. He had grinta and looked like a player who understood the importance of the match. He didn't net a goal, but he did what he could. Maybe Dybala could've got more of the chances, but then he wouldn't have stressed the Merda defenders the way Zaza did. Maybe it's a matter of opinion. When Zaza tackled down Melo he really got a plus in my book..

 

[Red]

Great how? What did he do? All he did was he worked hard, is that good enough, let alone GREAT?

He moved well.

Always a hugely under-appreciated aspect of centre-forward play.

 

[Osman]

He moved well.

Always a hugely under-appreciated aspect of centre-forward play.

He did and hustled alot, kudos for that, but it all becomes pointless when it adds so little in overall, no? He is a limited player, he shouldn't be handled special stars for effort, but overall input and quality he adds to the team. Especially when he is given the starting spot over superior players.

 

[Red]

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't have played him against Inter.

But I thought he did okay in the game, particularly if you factor in that that would have been his first experience of playing a big, really intense game.

Clearly he needs to improve his first touch, but I see - as I did when he was at Sassuolo - at lot of stuff in his game to suggest he could be a useful player for Juve.

But I generally have more time for guys like Zaza and Iaquinta than most people do.

 

[Osman]

I dont disagree. Nor am I impatient with him, or mind him as a squad player (though price tag is wtf...). I seen him plenty of times (lots of cringeworthy displays for Azzurri too) and know exactly what he brings. He is an ok physically useful forward who's an avid runner with decent shot, but fairly average and limited in most other ways. Biggiest issue being incredibly poor first touch and in parts overall decision making/intelligence when to execute, too eager to impress and doesnt seem to be all too aware of his surroundings (few occasions where he could passed Morata that he was too blinkered to do). He did okay indeed vs Inter, and more so vs Frosinone too, in generally being active and making himself available, but thats what it is, ok. Shouldnt be too highly complimented for trying or being having good work rate, if that was enough Simone Pepe would still be at the club, or starting. Its kinda going backwards if you would deem this level of quality starting material for Juve now.



P.s Iaquinta had similar limitations, but little more respect please, that dude had bit of clutchness in him, and was very useful for most of the time for us, ideal squad rotation striker.

 

[Red]

I dont disagree. Nor am I impatient with him, or mind him as a squad player (though price tag is wtf...). I seen him plenty of times (lots of cringeworthy displays for Azzurri too) and know exactly what he brings. He is an ok physically useful forward who's an avid runner with decent shot, but fairly average and limited in most other ways. Biggiest issue being incredibly poor first touch and in parts overall decision making/intelligence when to execute, too eager to impress and doesnt seem to be all too aware of his surroundings (few occasions where he could passed Morata that he was too blinkered to do). He did okay indeed vs Inter, and more so vs Frosinone too, in generally being active and making himself available, but thats what it is, ok. Shouldnt be too highly complimented for trying or being having good work rate, if that was enough Simone Pepe would still be at the club, or starting. Its kinda going backwards if you would deem this level of quality starting material for Juve now.



P.s Iaquinta had similar limitations, but little more respect please, that dude had bit of clutchness in him, and was very useful for most of the time for us, ideal squad rotation striker.

I've no great inclination to praise people for working hard - just working well.

The decision making bit is difficult. If you have a genuine No. 9 who is very focused on scoring goals (and probably has been since he was very young), it is hard to get them to play with their head up very much. It can also backfire if he gets it in his head that he needs to pass more and that means he doesn't shoot when he should (Allegri has discussed this issue in Morata's development). Sometimes you just hae to leave a player to do what he's good at, rather than trying to make him slightly better at something he is never going to be good at and risk him losing his key strength*.

Zaza is the sort of player I see as having a good chance to become 'clutch' because he has this nastiness and confidence about him that gives the impression he will back himself every bit as much in a big game - or just a big moment - as at any other time. Doesn't come off as the type to be bothered by pressure.

 

[Dominic]

Clutch a contender for football word of the year then?

 

[icemaη]

Iaquinta

 

[Red]

* I may have said this before, but that issue of trying to fundmentally change a player I why I think Giovinco failed.

He was an exceptional creative player when he was young, but at some point I think someone has told him he really needed to score more goals and that confused his style of play.

He was never going to be much of a goalscorer, but focusing on that aspect of his game caused him to neglect the creative side of his game, which was what could have made him a good player.

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Clutch a contender for football word of the year then?

Not a term I like or would use myself, which is why I put it in quote form.

 

[Dominic]

* I may have said this before, but that issue of trying to fundmentally change a player I why I think Giovinco failed.

He was an exceptional creative player when he was young, but at some point I think someone has told him he really needed to score more goals and that confused his style of play.

He was never going to be much of a goalscorer, but focusing on that aspect of his game caused him to neglect the creative side of his game, which was what could have made him a good player.

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Not a term I like or would use myself, which is why I put it in quote form.

Yeah, the term is way more Osman-ish.

 

[Martin]

Not a term I like or would use myself, which is why I put it in quote form.

that was such an english move, R

 

[Osman]

* I may have said this before, but that issue of trying to fundmentally change a player I why I think Giovinco failed.

He was an exceptional creative player when he was young, but at some point I think someone has told him he really needed to score more goals and that confused his style of play.

He was never going to be much of a goalscorer, but focusing on that aspect of his game caused him to neglect the creative side of his game, which was what could have made him a good player.

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Not a term I like or would use myself, which is why I put it in quote form.

Not sure anyone is trying to change Zaza, just pointing out his flaws, which are noticed more when you dont use your strengths well enough.

Gio, wish you didnt go there.... He's a sore point for me sentimentally speaking and you are so right I watched pretty ALL his games I could with Empoli and Azzurrini (mostly Azzurrini since his first til euro-21 in Sweden 2009) from 2006-2007 onwards (first aha-moment was in Serie B when he assisted Trez like a boss). Big parts of why he was and remains one of my favourite players was exactly because of how effortlessly creative he was, he simply had the keen natural eye to find anyone in the last 3rd (nobodies like Acquafresca, or even Pelle lived off him for that time). Somehow during Parma it changed,someone convinced him he is primarly a goalscorer and that became his obbsession/focus, it was evident 2nd time around with us when he was just an attacker and he was too eager to impress/shoot at all times instead of be more natural playmaker he was. Under Ranieri in his first stint with Juve, he was a winger/SS only, and there he created plenty for us despite the little playing time, was our most creative player more or less and was at ease in that function footballing wise, if he had continued to developed as left wing forward with focus to cross/assist, he could have had a more sound career probably (the kind of progression Insigne is having right now). Instead he got changed into go for goals type mainly that forgot to use and show his best asset, his keen creativity.



Its weird to talk about U-21 level for a player who is 28, but his Azzurrini level was something special, and as I said, entirely because of his special creativity (scusi for the poor quality, but the passes are total class):



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Yeah, the term is way more Osman-ish.

I was trying to say it in a more nice way that Zaza is not worthy the comparison of the Yak, who was real good despite being an oaf, he was excellent for Udinese, stand out, and first years with us was commendable.


If there is a Juve player that deserves to be called clutch, then its Morata. The rest not really, Pogba would be normally too, but thats his general high level (to decide games), instead of a habit for big occasions (infact he is yet to perform for real in CL).

 

[Dominic]

Haha I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said. Just the word clutch makes me cringe a little

 

[Osman]

Haha I wasn't disagreeing with anything you said. Just the word clutch makes me cringe a little

Blame it on american cinema and sports. Thats where the word got stuck with me from


Also its a handy adjective since it pretty easily describes whats usually a fairly vague skillset.


For example, Aguero doing this can only be described in one way





Top few most insane moments in the sport, and sports in general.

 

[Dominic]

I will direct my anger towards them!

Surely there is a better word?