Paulo Dybala (87 Viewers)

[Gigiventus]

What defensive approach? How many more forwards should we have fielded vs Madrid? We already had more than them.

Or against Barca back then in the final? Should Coman have started? Because otherwise what's the argument?

We are not failing big time in Europe. Losing the last 2 finals hurts a lot but it shouldn't blind us. We have lost a grand total of 0 knockout ties under Allegri. The only elimination was after drawing over 180 minutes.

I certainly don't remember a Juve like that.

Then we lose the two finals. Was it because of a defensive approach? I'm gonna need proof for that. We lost vs Barca when we were on top and pushing forward. We can ask Pirlo about that as he even lamented the overconfidence, the impatience of pushing too much.

The second one was a collapse all across the board.

Saying we are guilty of failing in Europe because of a defensive approach is not an argument that's very well thought out.

 

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[duranfj]

I'm talking about our current tactic. We r gonna sit way back (last 20 meters) against big teams in Europe without any doubt cuz we don't have any creativity and technique to pass their pressure lines.. we r relying on workrate and sacrifice

2015 we have the best MF. IMO with Chiello fit and King Arthur properly delivering we would have won

2016 only Uncle Pat doing that shit avoid us to keep in the competition

2017 we lost, they didn't win. We were better than them but their winning mind against our choking mind was too much for us to take

2018 with this new "awesome" way to play we r gonna lose against almost any of the likes of PSG, City, RM, BM or Farca cuz we CANT overrun their players, there's not any chance of that so our lack of creation would make us a easy path for any of them

 

[Gigiventus]

But what tells you that Max will set up the team the same way against all teams?

Max doesn't even set up the team the same way in both legs of a knockout tie vs the same team.

What have teams like City or PSG done to scare us?

Look at Madrid this season, do they seem scary? 14 points away from the league, 3-0 loss at home to Barca and smashed by Spurs. Losing against newly promoted sides.

Bayern even sacked their coach already.

Madrid set out yesterday with a narrow 4-3-1-2 with Kovacic in the hole specifically man marking Messi. Doesn't get more negative than that. Lost 3-0.

Criticizing Max for things he doesn't do and hasn't gotten the chance to do while comparing us negatively to teams that do worse.

 

[Juliano13]

Bench Higuain and play this kid as a CF. Problem solved

Both problems solved

 

[Juliano13]

he did really well vs Genoa and then Max subs him for Higgy and the very next game he doesent play at all. dont understand our great EuroMaxx sometimes

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never

It really makes no sense. I don't see anything that Higuain offers that Dybala doesn't. It's true that Dybala can't match him physically but this is football not Sumo or Weightlifting. And I don't remember the last the time Higuain scored a header.

 

[MikeM]

It really makes no sense. I don't see anything that Higuain offers that Dybala doesn't. It's true that Dybala can't match him physically but this is football not Sumo or Weightlifting. And I don't remember the last the time Higuain scored a header.

This is the thing for me as well. Higuain doesn't relieve pressure like Mandzukic does where you can just smash it in the air and he brings it down for a teammate. And Higuain doesn't score headers either. So what are the intangible benefits he presents over Dybala as a #9?

Even if you want to say Higuain finishes better than Dybala, you still have to say Dybala has the ability to get in behind. He has better ability on the counter. He has better ability to shoot from distance if the CBs give him cushion. So Dybala indeed has intangible benefits over Higuain as long as Higuain's finishing remains average.

 

[Lion]

dybala has worst first touch than iaquinta and goes down faster than robben when touched.

there is your answer. no need to debate the facts

 

[MikeM]

dybala has worst first touch than iaquinta and goes down faster than robben when touched.

there is your answer. no need to debate the facts

Can't argue there. But he could go down 5 times on his way to a through ball and still get there before Higuain.

 

[Nedved96]

What's a FM?

Football Manager (a game)

 

[zizinho]

It really makes no sense. I don't see anything that Higuain offers that Dybala doesn't. It's true that Dybala can't match him physically but this is football not Sumo or Weightlifting. And I don't remember the last the time Higuain scored a header.

+ in this 433, Mandzukic at times joins the striker and Matuidi goes wide, making it a 442, so aerial presence isnt even a problem for us, with or without Higgy

 

[Nedved96]

Essentially our 433 with Dybala as striker is just a lopsided 442

 

[Afghan_juventus]

Essentially our 433 with Dybala as striker is just a lopsided 442

Especially when defending

 

[Hydde]

Dybala is a tactical headache. Thats all i know.

 

[zizinho]

Especially when defending

when we are defending it looks like a 451, with the CMs taking turns in pressing high

 

[Stephan]

Dybala, Mandzukic and Cuadrado all joined us in 2015. Dybala has scored 15 more goals than the other two combined. It’s safe to say that Dybala brings more to the team than either Mandzu or Cuadrado.


We pick our attacking players in a 433 based on how much they contribute defensively, and that is why we will never win the CL.

Never thought I would ever agree with this guy, but perfectly put. It's litterally one of the stumbling blocks we have had.

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Douglas Costa is hardly known for some amazing defensive workrate.

Havent seen enough of Berna to judge.

Mandzu was converted from a CF to a Wing forward. He obviously does this defensive work but he wasnt known for some defensive play before we signed him when we did. He played CF for Bayern when they won it.

Its pretty interesting and amusing that he didnt work out at Atletico, given they are even more defensive minded then us, especially the times when they had him. (2014-15 season).



Fair enough Mandzu and Cuads still started and preferred by Allegri against Roma (big game in serie a) but we just bought Costa permanently so i dont see how that argument is all that valid anymore.

We are italian team, naturally we have this in our character. Against Roma, i would say Mandzu tracked back but Sandro pushed forward so smth like that needed to happen to balance it out, considering we played a back 4 in the end with Barza playing RB.

We might convert them into more defensive here at Juve (happened with Mandzu, Cuads to a certain extent as they come back to defense) but i wouldnt say we buy them based on that at all. With the points i provided. Costa especially was actually considered a poor moody player who has lack of workman character by Bayern fans in general when they got rid of him last summer. Lot of them said like good riddance as they loaned James.

 

[zizinho]

Douglas Costa is hardly known for some amazing defensive workrate.

Havent seen enough of Berna to judge.

Mandzu was converted from a CF to a Wing forward. He obviously does this defensive work but he wasnt known for some defensive play before we signed him when we did. He played CF for Bayern when they won it.

Its pretty interesting and amusing that he didnt work out at Atletico, given they are even more defensive minded then us, especially the times when they had him. (2014-15 season).

he scored 20+ goals for Atletico, he left because he and Simeone had a fight iirc

 

[Stephan]

Dybala, Mandzukic and Cuadrado all joined us in 2015. Dybala has scored 15 more goals than the other two combined. It’s safe to say that Dybala brings more to the team than either Mandzu or Cuadrado.


We pick our attacking players in a 433 based on how much they contribute defensively, and that is why we will never win the CL.

he scored 20+ goals for Atletico, he left because he and Simeone had a fight iirc

That was my point in terms of not working out. One season and off. Mandzu wasnt sold with some profit like some of their other sells.

Why did they have a fight btw? Simeone asked him to help defense out more and he refused? Quite ironic given what we have converted him into.


Oh btw, he scored 20 in all competitions for Atletico. Only scored 12 league goals. That is not amazing for a starting CF. Griezmann who wasnt a pure CF scored 22 in his first season at Atletico in league alone. 12 league goals is not great especially in la liga, in my book at least.

For example Ramos (yes the Real one) scored 7 goals in la liga last year. And i know he is known to score here and there but it just puts into perspective, when Mandzu a starting CF only gets 12. Lets not forget Costa (Diego Costa) who he replaced scored 27 in the league (13-14). So you cant say like the team wasnt suited for a good top scoring player.

 

[Afghan_juventus]

when we are defending it looks like a 451, with the CMs taking turns in pressing high

I dont see that when its a front 3 of Dybala, Higuain, and Douglas. It looks like this then:

--------Higuain-Dybala
Matuidi-Pjanic-Khedira-Douglas
Asamoah-Chiellini-Benatia-De Sciglio

When Mandzukic and Cuadrado start it looks like a 451 I guess but since Allegri came we've defended many times with a 442 for example with MVPP it would turn into:

Pogba-Vidal-Pirlo-Marchisio.

 

[zizinho]

That was my point in terms of not working out. One season and off. Mandzu wasnt sold with some profit like some of their other sells.

Why did they have a fight btw? Simeone asked him to help defense out more and he refused? Quite ironic given what we have converted him into.


Oh btw, he scored 20 in all competitions for Atletico. Only scored 12 league goals. That is not amazing for a starting CF. Griezmann who wasnt a pure CF scored 22 in his first season at Atletico in league alone. 12 league goals is not great especially in la liga, in my book at least.

For example Ramos (yes the Real one) scored 7 goals in la liga last year. And i know he is known to score here and there but it just puts into perspective, when Mandzu a starting CF only gets 12. Lets not forget Costa (Diego Costa) who he replaced scored 27 in the league (13-14). So you cant say like the team wasnt suited for a good top scoring player.

i dont remember it, just that he had a fall out with Simeone, whos a tough character himself. who knows

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I dont see that when its a front 3 of Dybala, Higuain, and Douglas. It looks like this then:

--------Higuain-Dybala
Matuidi-Pjanic-Khedira-Douglas
Asamoah-Chiellini-Benatia-De Sciglio

When Mandzukic and Cuadrado start it looks like a 451 I guess but since Allegri came we've defended many times with a 442 for example with MVPP it would turn into:

Pogba-Vidal-Pirlo-Marchisio.

im talking about the 433, Mandzukic and Cuadrado defend in line with the CMs and one of the CMs helps Higuain in pressing the backline at times. we never played a 433 with Dybala, Higgy and Costa, if you mean the Napoli game hat was a clear as day 442/4411

 

[Afghan_juventus]

i dont remember it, just that he had a fall out with Simeone, whos a tough character himself. who knows

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im talking about the 433, Mandzukic and Cuadrado defend in line with the CMs and one of the CMs helps Higuain in pressing the backline at times. we never played a 433 with Dybala, Higgy and Costa, if you mean the Napoli game hat was a clear as day 442/4411

Allegri likes fluid formations, im pretty sure it was listed as a 4321 by Juve's official facebook and when going forward or just having the ball Douglas would go forward and Matuidi would be more central from what I remember. But yes when Mandzu and Cuadrado play it is a 451 like vs Bayern in the Allianz