Paul Pogba (108 Viewers)

[Zacheryah]

Easy solution to this all

The solution is eighter a direct replacement as you picture, or a change in formation and a cam playmaker

thing is, what can we afford ?

It was actually refreshing to see our DM not involved so much in the play. Instead, the ball went forward more often and we had tons of chances. I was happy to see that we didn't immediately stop our attacks to pass back to a regista just so he could make a 5 yard pass out wide.

Also, Bologna was playing some type of 3-4-3 but with all 3 forwards playing close together centrally. Pogba had no time and was content to stay out of the game for the most part while we played vertically more often. Defensively, nothing came through the middle, so that's good.

People say he had a bad game. I'd rather say he was just uninvolved really. That's what will happen to your DM if you are taking advantage of space upfront.

Marchisio had quite a few Marchisio style runs into Bologna's box. Wondering if that's just a coincidence that with Pirlo out Marchisio is more aggressive.

He didnt had a bad game, he was just doing marchisio's deeper role a bit.

But you know peasants dont understand any of that, and think pogba was bad, whilst he actually did pretty good

 

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[Red]

Nothing much to say about Pogba's performance.

He didn't do anything stupid, but Bologna didn't really try to attack through his area of the pitch much and they were pretty committed to stopping the defenders playing balls into Pogba when Juve were building the play up.

 

[donpiero]

He didnt had a bad game, he was just doing marchisio's deeper role a bit.

But you know peasants dont understand any of that, and think pogba was bad, whilst he actually did pretty good

Well duh... he didn't have a bad game, but when a retard is sitting around just to bash Marchisio for the job the coach's asking him to do, then he needs to be given a taste of his own medicine, when it's Pogba's turn to have a quiet game.

 

[Nzoric]

It was actually refreshing to see our DM not involved so much in the play. Instead, the ball went forward more often and we had tons of chances. I was happy to see that we didn't immediately stop our attacks to pass back to a regista just so he could make a 5 yard pass out wide.

Also, Bologna was playing some type of 3-4-3 but with all 3 forwards playing close together centrally. Pogba had no time and was content to stay out of the game for the most part while we played vertically more often. Defensively, nothing came through the middle, so that's good.

People say he had a bad game. I'd rather say he was just uninvolved really. That's what will happen to your DM if you are taking advantage of space upfront.

Marchisio had quite a few Marchisio style runs into Bologna's box. Wondering if that's just a coincidence that with Pirlo out Marchisio is more aggressive.

If Pirlo had an anonymous performance like Pogba had yesterday you'd be all over his thread saying how we can't use him anymore.

 

[Salvatore]

Pirlo's contribution has now been reduced to making 5 yard passes out wide.

 

[Nzoric]

Pirlo's contribution has now been reduced to making 5 yard passes out wide.

Which obviously isn't worth it since he does no defensive work and gives away the ball in dangerous areas when attempting to make those 5 yard passes.

Also, it's obvious that Marchisio is being held back by Pirlo[footnote]

MikeD's post on Juventuz.com, Paul Pogba pp. 428, 06-12-2013.

 

[Zacheryah]

Well duh... he didn't have a bad game, but when a retard is sitting around just to bash Marchisio for the job the coach's asking him to do, then he needs to be given a taste of his own medicine, when it's Pogba's turn to have a quiet game.

I was not referring to you, but it was amusing to see how he reacts when someone is copying but with the other player

 

[MikeM]

If Pirlo had an anonymous performance like Pogba had yesterday you'd be all over his thread saying how we can't use him anymore.

No, I only get on Pirlo when he's obviously not up to the pace of play and commits stupid turnovers or slows our attack. Pogba did nothing to hurt our team so I'm rather indifferent towards his performance.

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Pirlo's contribution has now been reduced to making 5 yard passes out wide.

No, but it's true that sometimes the players ahead of Pirlo will stop and pass back to him just so he can make a pass that they themselves could easily make. If you watch for that next game you'll be able to see it.

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Which obviously isn't worth it since he does no defensive work and gives away the ball in dangerous areas when attempting to make those 5 yard passes.

Also, it's obvious that Marchisio is being held back by Pirlo[footnote]

MikeD's post on Juventuz.com, Paul Pogba pp. 428, 06-12-2013.

I felt Marchisio was seen going forward much more than usual. It's quite possible that it's because he felt safer leaving Pogba in front of the defence than Pirlo. After all, that is a logical conclusion to make. But perhaps Bologna was just playing a really stupid formation (which they were) and Marchisio had tons of space (which he did).

 

[Vlad]

I was not referring to you, but it was amusing to see how he reacts when someone is copying but with the other player

Talk about amusing:

Its very interesting, how you absolutely bash people who are not simularly minded

You out of all people here, Zacheryah the righteous one. Sig worthy.

 

[JuveJay]

 

[Salvatore]

No, but it's true that sometimes the players ahead of Pirlo will stop and pass back to him just so he can make a pass that they themselves could easily make. If you watch for that next game you'll be able to see it.

You're either treating Pirlo's involvement is a burden on the team, or taking small digs at every opportunity?

The reason for him receiving the lion's share of possession should be clear based on his role in Juve's success. I always assumed Juve fans accepted that.

 

[MikeM]

You're either treating Pirlo's involvement is a burden on the team, or taking small digs at every opportunity?

The reason for him receiving the lion's share of possession should be clear based on his role in Juve's success. I always assumed Juve fans accepted that.

Why is everything black or white on this board? I like Pirlo. He has strengths and weaknesses. The team reacts differently with him and without him. I personally like the team better when we are not constantly looking for him in build up not because I hate Pirlo but because I don't like having our creative catalyst sitting so far back. I think we move quicker without him. We play at a more CL friendly pace, if you will.

Does that mean I want to send him to Livorno or something? No. Is he still useful? Yes. If our opposition allows him to use his strengths he is GREAT. When teams take out his strengths and press his weaknesses, he is not so good. Sometimes he's awful.

To me, he is like a normal player not a god. He doesn't warrant automatic insertion into the lineup like Vidal does for instance.

There's a reason we can destroy Serie A and look average in CL. Our playing style, which is predicated around Pirlo, heavily suits Serie A which is more tactical, and plays at a slower pace. Not to mention, many of the minnows allow us 65% possession, in which case, I will start Pirlo 10 out of 10 times.

But in Europe everything is different and I'm sure you can acknowledge that. And I'm sure that you can acknowledge Pirlo has not been particularly impressive in the CL.

I think his defensive work is non-existent and that severely hurts our ability to press because A. he can't keep up and close the gaps when our midfield moves up and B. he can't recover to stop counter-attacks. I think he is highly exploitable defensively against the top European teams. I thought when we went down to 10 men in Spain, and we were forced to sub him, we were somehow less exploitable centrally and we moved the ball quicker.

And to me, considering his age and contract status, I sometimes look forward to seeing the team without him because my ultimate hope is that we build an attacking presence that doesn't rely on a slow regista (a regista is extremely uncommon in the top European sides) and a defensive presence that involves more pressing, tempo and physicality (traits that are common in the top European sides).

Now, I wouldn't go as far as to say his involvement in the team is a burden but I will say that it certainly caps our potential because as long as he's on the field, you can only play at one tempo, his tempo. And if he's having a bad day, your team is going to have a bad day. Those are the facts you have to deal with when you build a system around a slow regista.

Ultimately good enough to win Serie A but will always struggle in Europe, with faster, more physical teams, willing to play at a tempo Pirlo is uncomfortable taking part in.

 

[Vlad]

+rep
Red who?

 

[Zacheryah]

+rep
Red who?

So you are basically dissing red cause he disagrees with your view on Pogba.


Man, you should go into politics, your attempts at manipulation could go a long way

 

[Klin]

Zach, stop sucking Red's dick FFS. We know he's a redhead, but come on.

 

[Zacheryah]

Why is everything black or white on this board? I like Pirlo. He has strengths and weaknesses. The team reacts differently with him and without him. I personally like the team better when we are not constantly looking for him in build up not because I hate Pirlo but because I don't like having our creative catalyst sitting so far back. I think we move quicker without him. We play at a more CL friendly pace, if you will.

Does that mean I want to send him to Livorno or something? No. Is he still useful? Yes. If our opposition allows him to use his strengths he is GREAT. When teams take out his strengths and press his weaknesses, he is not so good. Sometimes he's awful.

To me, he is like a normal player not a god. He doesn't warrant automatic insertion into the lineup like Vidal does for instance.

There's a reason we can destroy Serie A and look average in CL. Our playing style, which is predicated around Pirlo, heavily suits Serie A which is more tactical, and plays at a slower pace. Not to mention, many of the minnows allow us 65% possession, in which case, I will start Pirlo 10 out of 10 times.

But in Europe everything is different and I'm sure you can acknowledge that. And I'm sure that you can acknowledge Pirlo has not been particularly impressive in the CL.

I think his defensive work is non-existent and that severely hurts our ability to press because A. he can't keep up and close the gaps when our midfield moves up and B. he can't recover to stop counter-attacks. I think he is highly exploitable defensively against the top European teams. I thought when we went down to 10 men in Spain, and we were forced to sub him, we were somehow less exploitable centrally and we moved the ball quicker.

And to me, considering his age and contract status, I sometimes look forward to seeing the team without him because my ultimate hope is that we build an attacking presence that doesn't rely on a slow regista (a regista is extremely uncommon in the top European sides) and a defensive presence that involves more pressing, tempo and physicality (traits that are common in the top European sides).

Now, I wouldn't go as far as to say his involvement in the team is a burden but I will say that it certainly caps our potential because as long as he's on the field, you can only play at one tempo, his tempo. And if he's having a bad day, your team is going to have a bad day. Those are the facts you have to deal with when you build a system around a slow regista.

Ultimately good enough to win Serie A but will always struggle in Europe, with faster, more physical teams, willing to play at a tempo Pirlo is uncomfortable taking part in.

Pirlo has top 3 highest average distance run from the entire team in every full game he plays. Because he's not making them interceptions, the minnows of this forum will say he doesnt do defensive work. Actually, pirlo is a master at positionning and is even better at that then Marchisio.

I entirely disagree on the statements about serie a in europe. It has nothing to do with tempo and style.
Look at 2007 milan, whas that lightning speed ? No, they were slow aswel, altho their counters were lethal. Was juventus build up so bad against real madrid ?
We were the better team and got owned by our own defensive mistakes.

What is the only game so far we were outplayed ? The bayern game. Why ? cause we couldnt build up thanks to weak ass forwards and out of form wingers.


How is the azzurri doing ? Were they lightning fast when they made that euro's final ? Where they lightning fast when they shut up spain in the groups ? Or domminated germany and england ? Nope. Did they press it nicely ? yes. Was pirlo playing ? yes.


Its quite simple, before Llorente, juventus had to build up via pirlo in the 352 cause we didnt have a reference point. Now that we got Bonucci who can reach llorente, who'll pick out the wide players, it gets entirely diffrent. Yes, this juventus has what it takes for europe. It was more then even against real with players in bad form, and llorente on his first games.

Why did we hold on when chiellini was send off ? Because if you are gonna defend on your penalty box, the covering is done by the central defence, and all midfielders are forced into duels. Meaning asamoah+pogba+vidal is about the best central axis you can field, with cheesio playing behind the striker.


Ultimately, with a good vidal and pogba/marchisio, but most importantly, with tevez and llorente as targets up front, the buildup doesnt have to go past pirlo. He can keep in his regista position and is the ideal player to lay the play back to and switch it around. Not do the forward build up from the defence. teams marking pirlo, will allow space for the wingbacks and pogba/cheesio/vidal/tevez to abuse.

SO thanks to Llorente, the pirlo issue is gone

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Zach, stop sucking Red's dick FFS. We know he's a redhead, but come on.

Do you want to have your dick sucked ?

 

[Vlad]

So you are basically dissing red cause he disagrees with your view on Pogba.

I don't know what have induced you to conclude something this absurd. Very simple minded and I expected better from you.

 

[Zacheryah]

Zach, stop sucking Red's dick FFS. We know he's a redhead, but come on.

Why, you want some ?

 

[MikeM]

Pirlo has top 3 highest average distance run from the entire team in every full game he plays. Because he's not making them interceptions, the minnows of this forum will say he doesnt do defensive work. Actually, pirlo is a master at positionning and is even better at that then Marchisio.

I entirely disagree on the statements about serie a in europe. It has nothing to do with tempo and style.
Look at 2007 milan, whas that lightning speed ? No, they were slow aswel, altho their counters were lethal. Was juventus build up so bad against real madrid ?
We were the better team and got owned by our own defensive mistakes.

What is the only game so far we were outplayed ? The bayern game. Why ? cause we couldnt build up thanks to weak ass forwards and out of form wingers.


How is the azzurri doing ? Were they lightning fast when they made that euro's final ? Where they lightning fast when they shut up spain in the groups ? Or domminated germany and england ? Nope. Did they press it nicely ? yes. Was pirlo playing ? yes.


Its quite simple, before Llorente, juventus had to build up via pirlo in the 352 cause we didnt have a reference point. Now that we got Bonucci who can reach llorente, who'll pick out the wide players, it gets entirely diffrent. Yes, this juventus has what it takes for europe. It was more then even against real with players in bad form, and llorente on his first games.

Why did we hold on when chiellini was send off ? Because if you are gonna defend on your penalty box, the covering is done by the central defence, and all midfielders are forced into duels. Meaning asamoah+pogba+vidal is about the best central axis you can field, with cheesio playing behind the striker.


Ultimately, with a good vidal and pogba/marchisio, but most importantly, with tevez and llorente as targets up front, the buildup doesnt have to go past pirlo. He can keep in his regista position and is the ideal player to lay the play back to and switch it around. Not do the forward build up from the defence. teams marking pirlo, will allow space for the wingbacks and pogba/cheesio/vidal/tevez to abuse.

SO thanks to Llorente, the pirlo issue is gone

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Do you want to have your $#@! sucked ?

2007 Milan played football 6-7 years ago. And Pirlo was 6-7 years younger. They had Kaka who was possibly the best in the world.

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World Cup football is not the same level as CL. Teams are not as cohesive. Italy plugged the midfield, they didn't press. It worked once vs. Spain then the final game was more open, they were destroyed. Alba made a run from his back line and split the entire team with his pace FFS.

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You honestly make me laugh every time you talk about Pirlo like he's some defensive savant. Like he's the only player in the world who literally just jogs around the field but somehow can stop offenses. I can go look up any goal where Pirlo is in the picture and it'll look the same every time. He is jogging and players are whizzing past him. Off the top of my head I'll find Alba's goal:


Edit:


If he was a master of positioning, perhaps he would at least shift to the side of the ball. It's funny to see De Rossi look over his shoulder to Pirlo like, "Fuck, no help there."

That goal really isn't even his fault but it's just an example of his lack of defensive urgency. He is jogging the whole time. Not giving a fuck. You can go look at the 2 goals in Madrid. Not a fuck was given, especially when Di Maria cut right across him at the top of the box. He has no side to side range, no sprint speed, no recovery speed, nothing.

We only succeed because if a play like that ever arises, instead of De Rossi, we have an animal named Vidal who does the work of 2 players and closes lanes one after another. Literally does the work of 2 players at certain times in the match.

And to your last point, you are starting to make my point for me. Better players in attack means less reliance on Pirlo, which is good, but also makes me question what's the point of fielding such a defensive liability if he's just going to "switch the ball around" as you say. Surely, we'd be better off with a more dynamic DM who can actually defend as well as "switch the ball around". As you said, even Bonucci can pick out Llorente now.

 

[Vlad]

It really is hilarious how he jogs around. Something similar happened vs Real, before Ronaldo scored the opener there was minimum effort on his part to close down Di Maria.