Other Leagues 2023-24 (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
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He'd have Celtic parking the bus against Kilmarnock and St Johnstone, never mind in the Champions League.
By comparison Postecoglu had us going at Madrid and playing them off the park for 45 minutes. In the whole CL group stage Celtic had 83 shots and only 3 goals scored (plus one OG). Imagine if Juventus had the luxury of being limited mainly by poor finishing rather than by poor coaching
By comparison Postecoglu had us going at Madrid and playing them off the park for 45 minutes. In the whole CL group stage Celtic had 83 shots and only 3 goals scored (plus one OG). Imagine if Juventus had the luxury of being limited mainly by poor finishing rather than by poor coaching
Hmmm interesting. I think this Celtic would easily survive in this Serie A. We'd be with that group from Bologna downwards who are on 40-something points and about 10 off the leaders.
As a paranoid Celtic fan with a persecution complex I must inform you that Scottish football is just as biased and corrupt as Italian football, and as good catholic italian boys Juventus would be targeted by the establishment. Meanwhile without Celtic to hate, Rangers would no longer have a reason to exist and would simply dissolve (again)- leaving Juventus to bask in an endless stream of league titles in spite of institutional bias and have no realistic chances of winning European silverware. In other words we might as well stay in Italy
As a paranoid Celtic fan with a persecution complex I must inform you that Scottish football is just as biased and corrupt as Italian football, and as good catholic italian boys Juventus would be targeted by the establishment. Meanwhile without Celtic to hate, Rangers would no longer have a reason to exist and would simply dissolve (again)- leaving Juventus to bask in an endless stream of league titles in spite of institutional bias and have no realistic chances of winning European silverware. In other words we might as well stay in Italy
Hmmm interesting. I think this Celtic would easily survive in this Serie A. We'd be with that group from Bologna downwards who are on 40-something points and about 10 off the leaders.
As a paranoid Celtic fan with a persecution complex I must inform you that Scottish football is just as biased and corrupt as Italian football, and as good catholic italian boys Juventus would be targeted by the establishment. Meanwhile without Celtic to hate, Rangers would no longer have a reason to exist and would simply dissolve (again)- leaving Juventus to bask in an endless stream of league titles in spite of institutional bias and have no realistic chances of winning European silverware. In other words we might as well stay in Italy
As a paranoid Celtic fan with a persecution complex I must inform you that Scottish football is just as biased and corrupt as Italian football, and as good catholic italian boys Juventus would be targeted by the establishment. Meanwhile without Celtic to hate, Rangers would no longer have a reason to exist and would simply dissolve (again)- leaving Juventus to bask in an endless stream of league titles in spite of institutional bias and have no realistic chances of winning European silverware. In other words we might as well stay in Italy
Hmmm interesting. I think this Celtic would easily survive in this Serie A. We'd be with that group from Bologna downwards who are on 40-something points and about 10 off the leaders.
As a paranoid Celtic fan with a persecution complex I must inform you that Scottish football is just as biased and corrupt as Italian football, and as good catholic italian boys Juventus would be targeted by the establishment. Meanwhile without Celtic to hate, Rangers would no longer have a reason to exist and would simply dissolve (again)- leaving Juventus to bask in an endless stream of league titles in spite of institutional bias and have no realistic chances of winning European silverware. In other words we might as well stay in Italy
As a paranoid Celtic fan with a persecution complex I must inform you that Scottish football is just as biased and corrupt as Italian football, and as good catholic italian boys Juventus would be targeted by the establishment. Meanwhile without Celtic to hate, Rangers would no longer have a reason to exist and would simply dissolve (again)- leaving Juventus to bask in an endless stream of league titles in spite of institutional bias and have no realistic chances of winning European silverware. In other words we might as well stay in Italy
Ah I was being self-deprecating Being real, imo the anti-catholic bias in Scotland and Glasgow in general has dissipated in a big way in the past 30 years. I've never been a practicing catholic but I did go to catholic schools all the way to 6th year and have a hella Irish name. I've experienced almost nothing (that I've noticed) in the way of discrimination my whole life. It seems like it was previously a much bigger deal.
Specifically with football I don't think there's any organised anti-Celtic effort. Football is business, and people are atheists now. There will always be some bias here or there in something as partisan as football but nah there's not the protestant establishment that there used to be. As for Rangers fans seeing some kind of anti-Rangers, pro-Celtic bias I think it's laughable. At least the Celtic/Glasgow irish catholic paranoia is based on historical precedent.
Being real, imo the anti-catholic bias in Scotland and Glasgow in general has dissipated in a big way in the past 30 years. I've never been a practicing catholic but I did go to catholic schools all the way to 6th year and have a hella Irish name. I've experienced almost nothing (that I've noticed) in the way of discrimination my whole life. It seems like it was previously a much bigger deal. Specifically with football I don't think there's any organised anti-Celtic effort. Football is business, and people are atheists now. There will always be some bias here or there in something as partisan as football but nah there's not the protestant establishment that there used to be. As for Rangers fans seeing some kind of anti-Rangers, pro-Celtic bias I think it's laughable. At least the Celtic/Glasgow irish catholic paranoia is based on historical precedent.
Ah I was being self-deprecating Being real, imo the anti-catholic bias in Scotland and Glasgow in general has dissipated in a big way in the past 30 years. I've never been a practicing catholic but I did go to catholic schools all the way to 6th year and have a hella Irish name. I've experienced almost nothing (that I've noticed) in the way of discrimination my whole life. It seems like it was previously a much bigger deal.
Specifically with football I don't think there's any organised anti-Celtic effort. Football is business, and people are atheists now. There will always be some bias here or there in something as partisan as football but nah there's not the protestant establishment that there used to be. As for Rangers fans seeing some kind of anti-Rangers, pro-Celtic bias I think it's laughable. At least the Celtic/Glasgow irish catholic paranoia is based on historical precedent.
Being real, imo the anti-catholic bias in Scotland and Glasgow in general has dissipated in a big way in the past 30 years. I've never been a practicing catholic but I did go to catholic schools all the way to 6th year and have a hella Irish name. I've experienced almost nothing (that I've noticed) in the way of discrimination my whole life. It seems like it was previously a much bigger deal.Specifically with football I don't think there's any organised anti-Celtic effort. Football is business, and people are atheists now. There will always be some bias here or there in something as partisan as football but nah there's not the protestant establishment that there used to be. As for Rangers fans seeing some kind of anti-Rangers, pro-Celtic bias I think it's laughable. At least the Celtic/Glasgow irish catholic paranoia is based on historical precedent.
While you have a country split in two you will always have bias/paranoia. If someone is in a position of power on the opposite side from the other it can lead to it.
The problem is it doesn't look like ever going away, maybe not having separate schools would help but don't think any government would want to be the ones to do it.
Anyway, as a non old firm fan with friends on both sides, I always find it funny how each fanbase basically says the exact same thing about the other and completely dismiss the other's views.
If me posting the Aberdeen thing offended you I apologise unreservedly, mate. I'll delete it as well.
The whole thing is very complex in the way that certain things are connected and associated. For example the 'hun' word as far as I understand is because of the German roots of the royal family, right? Hun obviously being a slur aimed at Germans. So to call a Rangers fan a 'hun' in Glasgow is because of their connection to the Queen I presume (the King sorry, I keep doing that lol). But when a Rangers fan holds up a union flag with the Queen's face on it is that mainly a display of religious devotion, or political allegiance to the union and/or great britain? Or simply a collection of symbols connected with Rangers? I think at this point it's mostly the last one. I don't think most who sing The Billy Boys even know who Billy Fullerton was, or what he did or that the song is about him. If they did know I suspect they wouldn't sing it any more, or maybe they would argue that at this point it's more a Rangers song than a literal fascist anthem.
You could apply that same thread to the Celtic support. Most of us are 4 or 5 generations removed from Ireland by now. Most of us under 35 too young to really remember The Troubles as well. Singing The Soldier's Song during games is mostly part of the Celtic cannon at this point rather than expressing national pride via singing Ireland's national anthem, or support for one side in a civil war which has been over for 25 years.
Ah I remembered my point - I think the sectarianism in Scotland (glasgow more specifically) is being kept alive as a feature of life largely because of the association to the football. The '90-minute bigot'. I don't know how to remove it from the equation. Police surveillance of the fans doesn't do anything because 10'000 fans are not going to get banned every time The Celtic Symphony gets sung. Fining the clubs doesn't work, because the fans do fundraisers and give the excess to charity. Growing up, kids are friends with whoever and everybody's cool with everybody, and then they learn this nonsense in stadiums and take it on board as part of supporting a football team. It'll take time but I think at least the genuine vitriol is fading away. It's not gone yet but I do think things are better now than they used to be. The years without Rangers actually helped create a bit of a gap, but now they're back at the top (well...almost lmao) it's all come back. My Dad, who took me to the games but was not a practicing catholic either, always shielded me from the 'up the ra' and all that, and I never grew up with any of that inside me. It can be done.
Definitely. We saw the same or similar with the indyref and again with Brexit.
I wonder if in a generation or so this will be the way forward. I really think most people are basically atheists every day of the week except Saturday. Once the boomers and Gen X are away and the millenials are the grandas- Gen Z won't give a fuck what school their weans go to as long as it's the best one available. Access to the internet has opened a lot of peoples' eyes to how petty all this nonsense is. Having lived abroad myself and explaining the Celtic - Rangers rivalry it never seemed a big enough deal to have all these years of aggro over, because in the wider context it really isn't. Gen Z are growing up understanding that. Most of the patter these days is about who's won more trophies and stuff. We won't see another episode like around Boruc blessing himself at Ibrox if you remember that? That was the last religion-based scandal I think we'll get between Celtic and Rangers. Good riddance to it.
Always noticed this myself lol. It's the same with us on Tuz and the FIF users lol, zero perspective or empathy. I just wish it was all based on football and not on religion or race like in Glasgow, or whatever the hell you'd call what's going on around Juve atm.
The whole thing is very complex in the way that certain things are connected and associated. For example the 'hun' word as far as I understand is because of the German roots of the royal family, right? Hun obviously being a slur aimed at Germans. So to call a Rangers fan a 'hun' in Glasgow is because of their connection to the Queen I presume (the King sorry, I keep doing that lol). But when a Rangers fan holds up a union flag with the Queen's face on it is that mainly a display of religious devotion, or political allegiance to the union and/or great britain? Or simply a collection of symbols connected with Rangers? I think at this point it's mostly the last one. I don't think most who sing The Billy Boys even know who Billy Fullerton was, or what he did or that the song is about him. If they did know I suspect they wouldn't sing it any more, or maybe they would argue that at this point it's more a Rangers song than a literal fascist anthem.
You could apply that same thread to the Celtic support. Most of us are 4 or 5 generations removed from Ireland by now. Most of us under 35 too young to really remember The Troubles as well. Singing The Soldier's Song during games is mostly part of the Celtic cannon at this point rather than expressing national pride via singing Ireland's national anthem, or support for one side in a civil war which has been over for 25 years.
I had a point when I started writing this but I've forgotten. It may come across as me saying 'both sides are as bad as each other', but being honest with you I don't actually believe that. The Billy Boys, the red stripe on the sock, the famine song etc. I've been to 100+ games at Parkhead and I'm well aware the Celtic support isn't comprised by choruses of angels but there is no equivalent to those at Celtic. I do recognise that's probably my bias.
Ah I remembered my point - I think the sectarianism in Scotland (glasgow more specifically) is being kept alive as a feature of life largely because of the association to the football. The '90-minute bigot'. I don't know how to remove it from the equation. Police surveillance of the fans doesn't do anything because 10'000 fans are not going to get banned every time The Celtic Symphony gets sung. Fining the clubs doesn't work, because the fans do fundraisers and give the excess to charity. Growing up, kids are friends with whoever and everybody's cool with everybody, and then they learn this nonsense in stadiums and take it on board as part of supporting a football team. It'll take time but I think at least the genuine vitriol is fading away. It's not gone yet but I do think things are better now than they used to be. The years without Rangers actually helped create a bit of a gap, but now they're back at the top (well...almost lmao) it's all come back. My Dad, who took me to the games but was not a practicing catholic either, always shielded me from the 'up the ra' and all that, and I never grew up with any of that inside me. It can be done.
Definitely. We saw the same or similar with the indyref and again with Brexit.
I wonder if in a generation or so this will be the way forward. I really think most people are basically atheists every day of the week except Saturday. Once the boomers and Gen X are away and the millenials are the grandas- Gen Z won't give a fuck what school their weans go to as long as it's the best one available. Access to the internet has opened a lot of peoples' eyes to how petty all this nonsense is. Having lived abroad myself and explaining the Celtic - Rangers rivalry it never seemed a big enough deal to have all these years of aggro over, because in the wider context it really isn't. Gen Z are growing up understanding that. Most of the patter these days is about who's won more trophies and stuff. We won't see another episode like around Boruc blessing himself at Ibrox if you remember that? That was the last religion-based scandal I think we'll get between Celtic and Rangers. Good riddance to it.
Always noticed this myself lol. It's the same with us on Tuz and the FIF users lol, zero perspective or empathy. I just wish it was all based on football and not on religion or race like in Glasgow, or whatever the hell you'd call what's going on around Juve atm.
Ah I was being self-deprecating Being real, imo the anti-catholic bias in Scotland and Glasgow in general has dissipated in a big way in the past 30 years. I've never been a practicing catholic but I did go to catholic schools all the way to 6th year and have a hella Irish name. I've experienced almost nothing (that I've noticed) in the way of discrimination my whole life. It seems like it was previously a much bigger deal.
Specifically with football I don't think there's any organised anti-Celtic effort. Football is business, and people are atheists now. There will always be some bias here or there in something as partisan as football but nah there's not the protestant establishment that there used to be. As for Rangers fans seeing some kind of anti-Rangers, pro-Celtic bias I think it's laughable. At least the Celtic/Glasgow irish catholic paranoia is based on historical precedent.
Being real, imo the anti-catholic bias in Scotland and Glasgow in general has dissipated in a big way in the past 30 years. I've never been a practicing catholic but I did go to catholic schools all the way to 6th year and have a hella Irish name. I've experienced almost nothing (that I've noticed) in the way of discrimination my whole life. It seems like it was previously a much bigger deal.Specifically with football I don't think there's any organised anti-Celtic effort. Football is business, and people are atheists now. There will always be some bias here or there in something as partisan as football but nah there's not the protestant establishment that there used to be. As for Rangers fans seeing some kind of anti-Rangers, pro-Celtic bias I think it's laughable. At least the Celtic/Glasgow irish catholic paranoia is based on historical precedent.
Nah that's me. Not in Uruguay any more, back in Scotland for a few years, just too lazy to change my Tuz location 
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A lot of Scots have Irish ancestry - either from millenia ago or from a century or two ago. A lot of the culture is pretty similar as well. I've never thought about myself as Irish whatsoever, but it is something I've seen some people cling onto as a part of their identity. It's a whole confusing, convoluted and at times violent thing in Glasgow especially- being typically Irish/catholic/left-wing/anti-monarchy/Celtic fan on one side vs British/protestant/right-wing/pro-monarchy/Rangers fan on the other.
As I said in the above book I wrote, I feel like a lot of it is centred around the football team as a key part of the identity rather than the religion or race at this point. I know you didn't ask about that part but I wrote it anyway
- - - Updated - - -
A lot of Scots have Irish ancestry - either from millenia ago or from a century or two ago. A lot of the culture is pretty similar as well. I've never thought about myself as Irish whatsoever, but it is something I've seen some people cling onto as a part of their identity. It's a whole confusing, convoluted and at times violent thing in Glasgow especially- being typically Irish/catholic/left-wing/anti-monarchy/Celtic fan on one side vs British/protestant/right-wing/pro-monarchy/Rangers fan on the other.
As I said in the above book I wrote, I feel like a lot of it is centred around the football team as a key part of the identity rather than the religion or race at this point. I know you didn't ask about that part but I wrote it anyway
Nah that's me. Not in Uruguay any more, back in Scotland for a few years, just too lazy to change my Tuz location
- - - Updated - - -
A lot of Scots have Irish ancestry - either from millenia ago or from a century or two ago. A lot of the culture is pretty similar as well. I've never thought about myself as Irish whatsoever, but it is something I've seen some people cling onto as a part of their identity. It's a whole confusing, convoluted and at times violent thing in Glasgow especially- being typically Irish/catholic/left-wing/anti-monarchy/Celtic fan on one side vs British/protestant/right-wing/pro-monarchy/Rangers fan on the other.
As I said in the above book I wrote, I feel like a lot of it is centred around the football team as a key part of the identity rather than the religion or race at this point. I know you didn't ask about that part but I wrote it anyway
- - - Updated - - -
A lot of Scots have Irish ancestry - either from millenia ago or from a century or two ago. A lot of the culture is pretty similar as well. I've never thought about myself as Irish whatsoever, but it is something I've seen some people cling onto as a part of their identity. It's a whole confusing, convoluted and at times violent thing in Glasgow especially- being typically Irish/catholic/left-wing/anti-monarchy/Celtic fan on one side vs British/protestant/right-wing/pro-monarchy/Rangers fan on the other.
As I said in the above book I wrote, I feel like a lot of it is centred around the football team as a key part of the identity rather than the religion or race at this point. I know you didn't ask about that part but I wrote it anyway
It's interesting so I appreciate it
In Uruguay? I lived in Montevideo from I think 2016-2019. Weed was long since legal, but I've never been into it really so I barely touched it.
Actually it was legal to possess and grow a certain amount at home (two plants was the standard) and that amount increased if you joined and registered with a grower's club. There was some uproar about that because if a future administration reversed the legal status of weed they would have a list of people likely to still be using it. Also it wasn't legal to buy unless from licensed sellers- and they were still in the process of working out how to implement that. In the end they went with pharmacies being the ones allowed to sell it, and you'd often see HUGE queues outside pharmacies of people waiting to buy weed lmao.
The legal way around it was when you bought weed off somebody was that it wasn't a transaction. They'd give you some weed as a "present", and then you'd give them an unrelated "present" of some cash. So it obviously wasn't an enforceable ban, but it wasn't an issue anyway because everybody knew somebody who was in a club, or grew it at home. Weed was everywhere, in my main friends group 4 or 5 of them were in clubs and they'd all swap strains and stuff.
Montevideo is great if you like a chilled city. On Sunday literally everything shuts down. When they party they party all night. I've heard there are some clubs that open in like late morning for people who are still going strong lmao. They work incredibly hard as well, and everybody is way over educated as well. It's a great wee country to live in. Some say its not that interesting to visit as a tourist and I do understand that. Buenos Aires has more touristy stuff and is beautiful, I love BsAs, but it'd be a different vibe to live there.
Actually it was legal to possess and grow a certain amount at home (two plants was the standard) and that amount increased if you joined and registered with a grower's club. There was some uproar about that because if a future administration reversed the legal status of weed they would have a list of people likely to still be using it. Also it wasn't legal to buy unless from licensed sellers- and they were still in the process of working out how to implement that. In the end they went with pharmacies being the ones allowed to sell it, and you'd often see HUGE queues outside pharmacies of people waiting to buy weed lmao.
The legal way around it was when you bought weed off somebody was that it wasn't a transaction. They'd give you some weed as a "present", and then you'd give them an unrelated "present" of some cash. So it obviously wasn't an enforceable ban, but it wasn't an issue anyway because everybody knew somebody who was in a club, or grew it at home. Weed was everywhere, in my main friends group 4 or 5 of them were in clubs and they'd all swap strains and stuff.
Montevideo is great if you like a chilled city. On Sunday literally everything shuts down. When they party they party all night. I've heard there are some clubs that open in like late morning for people who are still going strong lmao. They work incredibly hard as well, and everybody is way over educated as well. It's a great wee country to live in. Some say its not that interesting to visit as a tourist and I do understand that. Buenos Aires has more touristy stuff and is beautiful, I love BsAs, but it'd be a different vibe to live there.
You're right, football is definitely the driver of sectarianism in west of Scotland. It seems like it slips into every day life because some people can't separate it into a 90 minute game and seems to influence their other decisions (hiring staff / voting etc), which is crazy when you think about it.
As an outsider I'd agree your take that Celtic fans aren't as bad is probably a little bias. I'm pretty sure the red stripe on Rangers sock is a myth and relates to colours of Govan/Shipyard (the stripes were in existence before the song, I've also never met a Rangers fan who believes the myth). I've also seen effigies of orangemen hanging in Celtic Park and a large amount of fans signing about orange b*stards. To me both are as bad as each other and would prefer if the rivalry never existed. I'd also agree that the majority of Rangers fans will have absolutely no idea who Billy Fullerton is.
Anyway I don't think it is going anywhere and certainly not this weekend.
How did you end up in Montevideo? Did you speak Spanish before going?
As an outsider I'd agree your take that Celtic fans aren't as bad is probably a little bias. I'm pretty sure the red stripe on Rangers sock is a myth and relates to colours of Govan/Shipyard (the stripes were in existence before the song, I've also never met a Rangers fan who believes the myth). I've also seen effigies of orangemen hanging in Celtic Park and a large amount of fans signing about orange b*stards. To me both are as bad as each other and would prefer if the rivalry never existed. I'd also agree that the majority of Rangers fans will have absolutely no idea who Billy Fullerton is.
Anyway I don't think it is going anywhere and certainly not this weekend.
How did you end up in Montevideo? Did you speak Spanish before going?