Official Azzurri WC2010 Thread (17 Viewers)

[KB824]

Its one thing if Italy didn't qualify and they at least had their best possible players on the team, but that simply was not the case.

THAT is what makes it even more disappointing, because there were players left home that could have made a big difference.

 

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[Azzurri7]

I don't know.

It lends itself to this dilemna.

Do you take even more players from the old guard who are now 4 years older, and not the players they were, at least athletically, who have lareday gotten the proverbial "monkey off of their backs" by winning the WC, or do you take two players who quite frankly, are just as deserving, and come in with the chip on their shoulder that they have something to prove, and are hungry for international glory?

I would take the latter, myself.

Why not? We are not talking about any players here but Del Piero, Totti... I personally believe that to be able to achieve something or win you can a mixture of old guard and some hungry fresh young lads.

A Del Piero or Totti in this competition would have added lot of things. Technique, ideas, passing, freekicks, inspiration to other players etc...

I personally can't see how youngsters can be motivated when they have someone like Di Natale or Pepe hoping one of them would make the difference. While it sounds pretty damn exciting when you're playing with Del Piero for example.


France NT were this close winning to WC 4 years ago. My question here is, do you they would have reached the final without the aging Zidane, Makelele and Thuram?

 

[king Ale]

Its one thing if Italy didn't qualify and they at least had their best possible players on the team, but that simply was not the case.

THAT is what makes it even more disappointing, because there were players left home that could have made a big difference.

The team who played against New Zealand was strong enough to win. They must have won that game. I agree that Cassano, Balotelli and Miccoli deserved to be there but I really doubt Italy needed them to pass the group stage.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

And why not?

Or are you going to tell me that Iaquinta and Gilardino are actually better players than those 2

Prejudice, I guess.

I have always believed that the unity of a team is the most important thing when you go to a tournament such as the World Cup. Players like Cassano & Miccoli are very likely to disrupt that unity & create internal troubles.
If you then factor in the fact that both Cassano & Miccoli have never (and I do mean never) proven anything on the big stage, it's just not worth taking the risk.

That's just my opinion though. Which, based on the results & quality of play, may very well be entirely wrong.

 

[KB824]

If Italy had been eliminated against Holland in 1/8, we could have safely said that someone like Cassano or Miccoli could have made a difference, could have helped the Azzurri to have a better chance of standing against the Dutch. But it was only New Zealand and Slovakia. The squad Lippi had at disposal, as much as it was far inferior to all other big teams, MUST have beaten New Zealand. When it doesn't, it means that there is something wrong with the systems, with the formations and with the players' minds. Ironically enough, two of the worst Italian players yesterday were Chiellini and De Rossi. I don't think Cassano or Miccoli could have helped this team to advance from the group stage and Cannavaro is spot on.



It was exactly like the goal Mexico scored against France and the one Chile scored against Switzerland.

Hoori, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

There is a saying amongst American sports owners that goes something like this.


"Spending big money on your team doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will win, but I will say this. NOT spending money absolutely guarantees that you won't"


Lippi should have known better, should have known that Italy as the defending champions were going to have a bullseye on their back from the outset. He should have known that these "far inferior countries" were going to look at their match with Italy as their own personal world cup, and would bleed themselves dry if they needed to in order to get a result.

It is HIS FAULT that he didn't see this coming, that he rested on his laurels, that he didn't make the necessary changes to help a squad who had no creativity whatsoever.

He had 2 years to do this shit, Hoori, and he failed miserably.

 

[KB824]

Prejudice, I guess.

I have always believed that the unity of a team is the most important thing when you go to a tournament such as the World Cup. Players like Cassano & Miccoli are very likely to disrupt that unity & create internal troubles.
If you then factor in the fact that both Cassano & Miccoli have never (and I do mean never) proven anything on the big stage, it's just not worth taking the risk.

That's just my opinion though. Which, based on the results & quality of play, may very well be entirely wrong.

How do you know that? Are you privvy to inside information isdie the locker room?


What about Totti in 2006? Did he cause a problem?

And how do you know that Cassano and Miccoli wouldn't have proven themselves on the international stage, if they are shut out from even TRYING to begin with?

 

[KB824]

Why not? We are not talking about any players here but Del Piero, Totti... I personally believe that to be able to achieve something or win you can a mixture of old guard and some hungry fresh young lads.

A Del Piero or Totti in this competition would have added lot of things. Technique, ideas, passing, freekicks, inspiration to other players etc...

I personally can't see how youngsters can be motivated when they have someone like Di Natale or Pepe hoping one of them would make the difference. While it sounds pretty damn exciting when you're playing with Del Piero for example.


France NT were this close winning to WC 4 years ago. My question here is, do you they would have reached the final without the aging Zidane, Makelele and Thuram?

Totti didn't want it anymore. He made that perfectly clear, so I can't even include him in the equation.

Del Piero is another story, and yes, at worst he would have been a motivational leader, an inspriation. I don't know why he wasn't included, to be perfectly honest, but again I stick by my opinon that I would want to have players who truly wanted to be on the NT like Cassano and Miccoli, and had something to prove.

 

[king Ale]

Hoori, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

There is a saying amongst American sports owners that goes something like this.


"Spending big money on your team doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will win, but I will say this. NOT spending money absolutely guarantees that you won't"


Lippi should have known better, should have known that Italy as the defending champions were going to have a bullseye on their back from the outset. He should have known that these "far inferior countries" were going to look at their match with Italy as their own personal world cup, and would bleed themselves dry if they needed to in order to get a result.

It is HIS FAULT that he didn't see this coming, that he rested on his laurels, that he didn't make the necessary changes to help a squad who had no creativity whatsoever.

He had 2 years to do this shit, Hoori, and he failed miserably.

I believe that he should have called up Cassano and Miccoli because with the squad he took to the World Cup, reaching to the 1/8 or 1/4 was the maximum. I also agree that he had enough time to fix many things in the team like finding a replacement for Cannavaro. He was horribly on a decline and Lippi had the needed time to introduce someone like Bonucci/Bocchetti/whoever to the team, to play them in the friendlies until they get experienced enough. If I was a coach, I would have tried EVERYTHING possible to make the best squad. Cassano-Pazzini due has already been proven in the league, Lippi should have tried that pair in friendlies. This tournament consists of only 9 games at most, I don't agree that a player's attitude could have such a bad influence on the whole team. I sure would have included Cassano, Miccoli and Balotelli.

All I say is that, even without those players, Italy must have passed such an easy group, don't you think? This is why I doubt they would have qualified even if they had Cassano or Miccoli in the team.

 

[IrishZebra]

Buffon
Santon-Chiellini-Bonucci-Criscito
Montolivo/Pirlo
De Rossi-Marchisio
Balotelli----------------------Cassano
Quagliarella​

That team would have done well methinks.

 

[KB824]

The team who played against New Zealand was strong enough to win. They must have won that game. I agree that Cassano, Balotelli and Miccoli deserved to be there but I really doubt Italy needed them to pass the group stage.

The team that was put together was not strong enough to do anything, to be perfectly honest with you.

Fuck, Lippi even said it HIMSELF when he said that he didn't think that this team, that he had 2 years to put together, by the way, was strong enough to win the World Cup.

When, in the history of this tournament, did you ever hear this from the head coach of not only an international football power, but the fucking DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPIONS, come out and say

"Oh, although I didn't htink this team was stron enough to win the World Cup, I atl least thought they could get out of the group stage"

that is a defeatist attitude, and his selections, or lack thereof, cost Italian football greatly.

 

[KB824]

I believe that he should have called up Cassano and Miccoli because with the squad he took to the World Cup, reaching to the 1/8 or 1/4 was the maximum. I also agree that he had enough time to fix many things in the team like finding a replacement for Cannavaro. He was horribly on a decline and Lippi had the needed time to introduce someone like Bonucci/Bocchetti/whoever to the team, to play them in the friendlies until they get experienced enough. If I was a coach, I would have tried EVERYTHING possible to make the best squad. Cassano-Pazzini due has already been proven in the league, Lippi should have tried that in friendlies. This tournament consists of only 9 games at most, I don't agree that a player's attitude could have such a bad influence on the whole team. I sure would have included Cassano, Miccoli and Balotelli.

All I say is that, even without those players, Italy must have passed such an easy group, don't you think? This is why I doubt they would have qualified even if they had Cassano or Miccoli in the team.

Yes, they should have, but that's not my point.

My point is that he did not bring his best squad to the World Cup.

 

[king Ale]

Yes, they should have, but that's not my point.

My point is that he did not bring his best squad to the World Cup.

No doubt.

 

[KB824]

I'm looking at my posts, and you can always tell when I'm pissed.

I seem to forget how to spell

 

[Buck Fuddy]

How do you know that? Are you privvy to inside information isdie the locker room?


What about Totti in 2006? Did he cause a problem?

I don't know that. I merely think that may have been the case. And I'm pretty sure Lippi has (or had) that exact same idea.
And based on what I read earlier, or how I interpreted it at least, none of the selected players where disappointed that Cassano wasn't there. Let alone Miccoli.

And how do you know that Cassano and Miccoli wouldn't have proven themselves on the international stage, if they are shut out from even TRYING to begin with?

I don't, but that's not what I said either. I said that they haven't so far, meaning that there is absolutely no guarantee they would now. Couple that with the potential of internal troubles, and for me it's not worth the risk.


We can argue about it for days, but in the end they played 3 games & they conceded 5 goals. When your defence (& midfield) performs like they did, you are just not going to get far. Regardless of Cassano / Miccoli / DP / ... being there.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I don't agree that a player's attitude could have such a bad influence on the whole team.

Believe me, it can.

Especially when you're together "in ritiro" 24/7 for possibly more than a month. You need a strong group, or you're screwed.

One of the things the Dutch team has learned a few times over the past few years

 

[Holdon]

When, in the history of this tournament, did you ever hear this from the head coach of not only an international football power, but the fucking DEFENDING WORLD CHAMPIONS, come out and say

"Oh, although I didn't htink this team was stron enough to win the World Cup, I atl least thought they could get out of the group stage"

that is a defeatist attitude, and his selections, or lack thereof, cost Italian football greatly.

This was indeed an incredible admission. It doesn't help when the team is full of fragile mental midgets when their own CT doesn't have any belief in them.

 

[JuveJay]

But was it not obvious that Italy's attack was not good enough? was it not obvious even before the tournament that creativity was lacking?

I think everyone but Lippi agreed that Italy needed a talented player up there.

The attack was also not that great in 2006, I think it goes a bit further than the strikers, it was no coincidence that when Pirlo came into the game Italy looked a lot better. Totti and Del Piero were not fantastic in 2006 and they wouldn't have been this year either but they would have offered something different, some class and experience against the modest teams in our group. Maybe I would have taken Cassano, maybe I would have taken Miccoli (if he was fit), I would definitely have taken Cossu. I'm not sure if I said here or elsewhere, but the team who are through and who look like going through in this WC are nearly all the ones who play the shorter game. I don't think Lippi was quite aware of how much the conditions would affect his style. Crosses are generally a waste of time, hitting it into the channels is a waste of time, diagonal balls are the same, this is how Italy have played for a while and there was no fallback option because of the players he took. Having said that, Di Natale was criminally underused and Gilardino overused in an attack that clearly didn't work.

 

[Christina]

Totti didn't want it anymore. He made that perfectly clear, so I can't even include him in the equation.

Del Piero is another story, and yes, at worst he would have been a motivational leader, an inspriation. I don't know why he wasn't included, to be perfectly honest, but again I stick by my opinon that I would want to have players who truly wanted to be on the NT like Cassano and Miccoli, and had something to prove.

Which is why I think Quaggy did well yesterday.

 

[KB824]

‘Quagliarella should have started’ Friday 25 June, 2010

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Napoli President Aurelio De Laurentiis believes Fabio Quagliarella should have started for Italy and hints at possible conspiracy.

Quagliarella came on as a late substitute against Slovakia and almost turned the game on its head, scoring a wonderful goal, as well as having one disallowed and a shot cleared off the line.

Italy ended up losing 3-2 and finished bottom of their group meaning an ignominious early exit for the World Cup holders.

“Leaving aside what goes on behind closed doors, Lippi’s decisions were very strange. He either no longer understands anything or was influenced.

“What need was there to play Iaquinta for an entire game? Who did that make happy? I hope there wasn’t any kind of influencing.

“Sure – if we carry on in this climate of suspicion – it makes me think that the US’s last minute qualification was an incredible advert to popularise ‘soccer’ in the States.

“Lippi should have made Quagliarella play from the beginning. That’s why I think Lippi perhaps had orders not to get out of the group. It seems absurd but it’s all very strange.”





Sir, Kindly dig up your dead mother and skull fuck her, please

 

[MikeM]

You can only judge them from the group! Is Lippi supposed to have a crystal ball?! Name me a team that qualified in first place in their group and then went to a tournament with a different attacking setup.

Excuse me but any sane coach should realize that if you want to win the world cup you have to finish ahead of better teams than Ireland and Bulgaria...