North Korea Apparently Carries Out Nuclear Test (12 Viewers)

[Wraith]

This is, quite undeniably, a disaster.

I'm not speaking in terms of the US, but in terms of the world. In the end, we are all citizens of the world; the old definitions of country and city no longer carry much weight. Whenever another country decides to develop nuclear weapons, it is an attack against world peace. I've never heard of anyone explaining how the atomic bomb actually saves people, cures cancer, feeds the starving masses, etc. So for the welfare of the world, North Korea should not have weapons, and all other countries need to disarm. Which they have been doing to some extent, and could step up more. But that's not an excuse for other countries to acquire them.

Moreover, it's not as though North Korea itself is benefited. There's not a chance that they would have been attacked. If the US were to launch another large-scale military operation, it would have been the invasion of Iran, which is somewhat of a threat and strategically far more significant. Note the media response: we've seen bigger headlines for Bin Laden videos. Videos of a guy standing against a white wall talking! But fairly soon, I'm sure that there will be more sanctions on North Korea, and half their population will die of starvation. End of Kim Jong Il. Everyone's happy again.

The other thing that will happen is the increase of pressure on Iran to comply. Clearly whatever the anti-new-nuclear-countries were doing didn't get the job done. And I'm not speaking from a pro-US, pro-Israel point of view either...

Conclusion: nuclear bombs bad, North Korea insignificant, everyone can party on.

 

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[Martin]

Moreover, it's not as though North Korea itself is benefited. There's not a chance that they would have been attacked.

The US would not attack North Korea for the simple reason that North Korea is capable of destroying South Korea in minutes through conventional weapons. But as a military dictatorship, as military dictatorships always, do they not seek more power and more powerful weapons?

But fairly soon, I'm sure that there will be more sanctions on North Korea, and half their population will die of starvation. End of Kim Jong Il. Everyone's happy again.

More than what? North Korea has virtually no trading partners. What is it that the US could do to further worsen the conditions? I think pretty much nothing. Their population is starving *as it is*, they have no trade, virtually no diplomatic relations, live in total isolation. What is this perceived greater influence of yours that would change anything?

 

[ReBeL]

But fairly soon, I'm sure that there will be more sanctions on North Korea, and half their population will die of starvation. End of Kim Jong Il. Everyone's happy again.

Just like what happened in Iraq...

Saddam was removed, and people there are living in a remarkable peace...

Wake up, mate...

There are more than one hundred anonymous bodies in Baghdad alone everyday, and the reason is just one reason: G. Bush thought he maybe probably perhaps can find mass destruction weapons there...

He promised people of freedom and prosperity, but people couldn't see anthing but their stolen OIL...

 

[Slagathor]

The most important thing this has brought about is the awakening of China. China is pissed off: this is a hazzard to their national security as well as their international interests and the stability of the region which they need to continue to inspire their economic growth.

The international community has so far had as good as zero influence on North Korea through sanctions or otherwise because China always (at least partially) supported the Kim regime. Most notably through the unconditional delivery of oil and grain. That has now, for the first time in history, become an uncertainty.

China needed to wake up, the world needed China to wake up. As awful as this might seem at first sight: at least we are no longer stuck in the deadlock.

The situation as it was until yesterday concerning the Earth's nuclear weapons arsenal was highly unhealthy and very dangerous. More so than during the cold war. It's not that long ago that Pakistan and Indian nearly vaporised half of Asia and only didn't because their leaders woke up on time (2002, was it?). The status quo was being sustained at all costs through unhealthy means (war and heavy economic sanctions). That was always going to have an end, as it should, because it didn't decrease the threat at all.

We need a new solution regarding nuclear weapons, the old situation simply didn't suffice but was stuck in a deadlock nevertheless. And every political science student will tell you that in that respect, North Korea (or alternatively Iran) acquiring nuclear weapons may, sadly, be exactly what the world needed.

Don't forget: there were zero regulations regarding international weapons before the Cuban missile crisis of the 1960s. Sometimes a crisis is bitterly needed.

 

[Seven]

Crisis? This isn't a crisis. What happened yesterday in Deurne (a district of Antwerpen) is a crisis. 42% of the public thinks racism is a-okay.

 

[Chxta]

For the first time in (like ever), I am forced to agree with 7!

 

[flieeeekke]

like totaly..

 

[Bisco]

Just like what happened in Iraq...

Saddam was removed, and people there are living in a remarkable peace...

Wake up, mate...

There are more than one hundred anonymous bodies in Baghdad alone everyday, and the reason is just one reason: G. Bush thought he maybe probably perhaps can find mass destruction weapons there...

He promised people of freedom and prosperity, but people couldn't see anthing but their stolen OIL...

yup abed thats true, but with North korea its going to be different. there are 2 other examples of the current situation and in each situation the United states and the world community dealt with the situation in a different way.

example 1: iraq, with iraq being sooo keen to get weapons of mass destruction ( even going as far as getting nucleaur technolgy) they made alot of enemies in the region, and that cost them alot. first of all they were left alone with out any allies. no arab world allies niether iran ( due to the issues between them and the war that lasted for 7 years between these two sides). so when the sanctations were applied to them it toke alot out of them, and weakend them even more than the war led by the usa on iraq upon invasion of kuwait. three fore getting into iraq was easier than anything bec lets face it the iraqi people could'nt take sadams regime and that was a fertile spot for the united states to play on. and here we are almost four years since iraqa invasion and the end result is a major faliure for the usa except for petrol greedy companies wanting iraq's oil. another fact is, iraq was never in any day a threat for the united states. if they invaded kuwait well i personally think it was a game played between sadam and bush the father to increase american prescence in the region. all this toke place with out the approval of the united nations.

example 2: iran, iran wants nucluear power for civil purposes according to them even if its not the case the way the united states handles iran is completely different. iran unlike iraq is a super power in the middle east. it has a strongly built army, they have a strong working force, scientific abilities that make them dependant on them selves i,e they dont need russians to help them out with the process, and most of all iranians have allies in the region and by allies i dont mean countries cos we all know the arab countries wont be involved in any military activity. allies as in hamas and hezbollah and they wont attack the united states but will def be considered as they can attack isreal the main ally of the us and the guardian of its interests in the middle east. invading iran does not look like a sane decision well at least not in the current time. the united states is soaked in iraq already and getting into this war will be the last thing they want to do.

when u put these two examples in mind there is north korea's position that u have to consider too. unlike iran and iraq, north korea is very close to the united states and in the case they r attacked its almost guarnteed they will launch rockets on to american soil. this makes the north korean issue a matter of national security for the united states and not a war on global terrorism. its a completely different propaganda. south korea is not easier than iran too bec lets look at who south korea has on its side?? it has china the up coming super power no doubt its a matter of time before china becomes the second pole of the world.

north korea has several pionts to play on, such as threatening south korea, and japan. so i really dont think, its applying sancations that will help bring south korea down. i dont think getting opposition on north koreas leaders will work too bec this is'nt iraq. in iraq its well known the regime was betrayed and that made it easier to get to bagdahdad .

 

[Wraith]

Just like what happened in Iraq...

Saddam was removed, and people there are living in a remarkable peace...

Wake up, mate...

The US will not attack North Korea, nor will they remove Kim Jong-Il, due to the lack of economic incentive. But the guy isn't immortal. He's going to die sooner or later, or perhaps a coup, or whatnot. Granted the situation might get worse, though I can't conceive how, but it may also get better. Besides, the problem with North Korea for its people isn't peace/lack thereof, it's food/lack thereof. If there were a reason for the international community to try and resolve that, it's easier done than issuing a mandate for peace.

Now we are in fact waiting for China to act. Like Erik said, they have the power to break the deadlock. China...we'll see what happens with China, I guess.

 

[ReBeL]

The US will not attack North Korea, nor will they remove Kim Jong-Il, due to the lack of economic incentive. But the guy isn't immortal. He's going to die sooner or later, or perhaps a coup, or whatnot. Granted the situation might get worse, though I can't conceive how, but it may also get better. Besides, the problem with North Korea for its people isn't peace/lack thereof, it's food/lack thereof. If there were a reason for the international community to try and resolve that, it's easier done than issuing a mandate for peace.

Now we are in fact waiting for China to act. Like Erik said, they have the power to break the deadlock. China...we'll see what happens with China, I guess.

Well, I don't think China will take part in this matter...

They won't destroy their systematic building for their future just because North Korea made that nuclear test...

I don't think China is ready yet to have that great impact politically. It matured economically, but I think it needs more time to have the same political weight with the biggest powers of the World...

 

[swag]

It's mostly sad, really.

Sad that this U.S. administration has such low credibility and effectiveness as a peacekeeping nation -- it's an opportunity completely blown.

And it's even more sad for the North Korean people too. That underground thud wasn't the sound of a nuclear test -- it was the sound of hundreds if not thousands of North Korean children who will likely die of disease and starvation due to the resource appropriation decisions the North Korean government is making/will make for their homeland.

 

[HelterSkelter]

im sad for the north korean people.but i love one thing about this :

up yours george w.bush!

 

[angelus]

all i know tht till the new election in the states probls all over the world will appears wether from Nkorea or iran or watever party tht would be and for this matter the us wouldnt be able to control everything and things will slipp from their hands as its already slippin they couldnt stop and wont stop north korea nor will they stop iran coz their political system and military arms r very well secured

 

[Omair]

Well, I don't think China will take part in this matter...

They won't destroy their systematic building for their future just because North Korea made that nuclear test...

I don't think China is ready yet to have that great impact politically. It matured economically, but I think it needs more time to have the same political weight with the biggest powers of the World...

Someone could look it in anothier way .. This is China's chance to get the political power they need ..

To be precise, after the US fails in getting N.Korea to stop, China should jump in and do their stuff. Somehow they may convince the N.Koreans to stop all that they're doing (( let's say under the table )) ... What do u think ??

 

[Bisco]

Someone could look it in anothier way .. This is China's chance to get the political power they need ..

To be precise, after the US fails in getting N.Korea to stop, China should jump in and do their stuff. Somehow they may convince the N.Koreans to stop all that they're doing (( let's say under the table )) ... What do u think ??

i dont know how but i am pretty sure china will be playing a role not necessairly asking north korea to give up there nucluer program. china will be north korea's ally but will also play for its on benefits at the end of the day.

 

[Slagathor]

i dont know how but i am pretty sure china will be playing a role not necessairly asking north korea to give up there nucluer program. china will be north korea's ally but will also play for its on benefits at the end of the day.

True. Let's not forget Japan and South Korea, they're huge economical partners for China and there are a lot of tensions caused by North Korea in the region now. Tensions that won't help the Chinese economy at all. China are forced to act, it will be interesting to see what they'll do.

 

[Bisco]

True. Let's not forget Japan and South Korea, they're huge economical partners for China and there are a lot of tensions caused by North Korea in the region now. Tensions that won't help the Chinese economy at all. China are forced to act, it will be interesting to see what they'll do.

i think south korea, north korea, japan, and china are all linked togther. but not in an equal way. u have south korea, japan and china who are very strong econmically and u have north korea which is quite poor and not as strongly estabilished as the other three. i find it tricky to reach a mid piont between all parties. another reason is the untied states and the world community are pressuring china to take action in order to let go of the china and taiwan issue which is heating up from time to time.
my guess would be financial aids being sent to north korea by these three countries infront of north korea giving up there program. i dont know if it will work or not, but thats what i see happening in the near future.

 

[Wraith]

And it's even more sad for the North Korean people too. That underground thud wasn't the sound of a nuclear test -- it was the sound of hundreds if not thousands of North Korean children who will likely die of disease and starvation due to the resource appropriation decisions the North Korean government is making/will make for their homeland.

Eh, leaders are known for making bad decisions. For example, a couple of years ago Mugabe, the president of Zimbabwe, turned away planeloads of UN food aid. The reason? There was some GM wheat in the bread, and he claimed that Zimbabweans are people not dogs, and therefore shouldn't eat that trash. What can you say.

Prior to the stall, China had been negotiating with Pyongyang separately. It's definite that such talks will continue, but it remains to be seen what becomes of them.

One potential problem that may surface is North Korea's ties to Iran and Syria. It would be highly inconvenient if one or two ships with enriched uranium arrived in Iran every year. While North Korea probalby will not attack anyone, Iran is somewhat more aggressively inclined. Bolton has suppposedly drafted a resolution for the Security Council calling for inspections of all cargo entering and leaving North Korea. I hate this guy, but that would be a good resolution. So the UN might do something for once...or not.

 

[Omair]

An eastern alliance will just drive the situation more crazy. I don't think China, Japan and S.Korea will make an alliance here. It's way too risky ...

 

[Martin]

An eastern alliance will just drive the situation more crazy. I don't think China, Japan and S.Korea will make an alliance here. It's way too risky ...

Exactly on what platform would that happen? Japan and South Korea have close ties, but China is a completely different kind of political entity.