I don't believe that, at trial, the prosecution presented evidence of Andreotti kissing Riina on the cheeks, but my recollection was that Andreotti was kissing Salvo Lima. I admit my memory is showing my age, however.
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Nick Against the World (87 Viewers)
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OP
Listen up Grandpa...how can you believe Andreotti was involved in every single scandal post WWII and laugh off the Agricola verdict when there when all forms of evidence was presented from documented data to testimony of former players to present long-term effects players are and will suffer thanks to the Agricola Cocktail-on-the-rocks.
Furthermore, the Italian justice system is not as backwards as you make it out to be...granted they are in dire need of a overhaul of the procedure code and a new appointment system for judges....though I don't doubt they are qualified they are just leaning on one side in a disturbing fashion.
Pado, we should also not stand high and mighty looking down on Italy...the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) is the biggest piece of horsesh*t this side of the Atlantic. Instead of eradicting organized crime as it claims it did, it actually saw the emergence of sewer rats run about and fabricate stories to guarantee they spend their life in places like Eagar, Arizona living like rodent rather than behind bars where they belong.
Furthermore, the Italian justice system is not as backwards as you make it out to be...granted they are in dire need of a overhaul of the procedure code and a new appointment system for judges....though I don't doubt they are qualified they are just leaning on one side in a disturbing fashion.
Pado, we should also not stand high and mighty looking down on Italy...the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) is the biggest piece of horsesh*t this side of the Atlantic. Instead of eradicting organized crime as it claims it did, it actually saw the emergence of sewer rats run about and fabricate stories to guarantee they spend their life in places like Eagar, Arizona living like rodent rather than behind bars where they belong.
OP
++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++
Hehe...
I've tried to watch the CFL (we get all the games here), and I just cant get over the goalposts being right on the damn goal line
I am just waiting to see a receiver slam face first into it, going for a ball
Hehe...
I've tried to watch the CFL (we get all the games here), and I just cant get over the goalposts being right on the damn goal line
I am just waiting to see a receiver slam face first into it, going for a ball
the ball also gets to me for some reason...it looks like those footballs every kid got for his 5th birthday!
That was actually my point , Libero...
You used the effort required for 21 days and 300km as an argument for cyclists to take drugs compared to the lesser effort required for 3 90 min games of football etc... I highlighted the single day races as they are more comparable to a footballers 90 mins (using football because you did not as in its the only )... And in those races there was/is still doping...
On the case of riders that win in the early season (or any particular patch) and do little else where... Im not convinced that to mean doping... Hardly any riders today ride the whole season... That is in most cases more a sign of the times than doping...
There was actually a similar set of rumours etc throughout the early season of 98 with festina at the top of the list....
Of course being a lesser sport on the world stage these stories were limited to the likes of l'equipe , gazzetta , corriere and a a weekly in the uk rather than the world stage of football... though surprisingly the juve story has been hidden well from the worlds press pages....
Eric Ryckaert was the Festina team doctor
"massacre à la chaîne" is a wonderful insight to the world of a top soignuer of the number 1 cycling team on the planet in an era of rife drug use...
I have reccomended this book on here several times... There are actually large excerpts from the book in this thread somewhere...
Its an eyeopening book, to say the least...
The Horse Doctor..... "Doctor Mabuse" Himself... Bernard Sainz
Couldnt agree more... Its also interesting to note that at this time of these events.... Armstrong is currently suing ebay sellers of his livestrong bands (a charity i support whole heartedly btw) on 'Moral' grounds... lol
It also annoys me immensely that this fraud has robbed a man, widely accepted within the cycling world as one of the greatest natural talents of all time, a man like previously mentioned bassons is one of the few riders who are without suspicion of fulfilling his destiny of becoming the first 6 times winner.... Jan Ullrich...
Yes he has had his problems and made his mistakes ( depression, drink driving, banned for taking extacy at a party whilst injured, weight issues and several injuries) but everyone knows he the most gifted cyclist of the current era and among the most talented ever... Without lance he would now be on 6... as his talent deserves... A real shame
The UCI announced today they are looking at these reports and will issue their findings on the armstrong case next week...
Can you really question eddy being the greatest... I dont think so... his palmarès are unbelievable.... Though of course i personally pick hinualt as the best of all time... He was much more than jus a winning machine that eddy was... he changed the face of cycling... The one and only 'Patron'
But then if you look to indurain he also won 7 grand tours... plus much more than lance besides
Bernard Hinault won 11 grand tours plus everything else on the calender...
The list goes on of riders that did far more than lance...
Yet people like to say Lance is the best ever... get real
I'll come back to pantani, virenque, Lou Gehrig’s etc when i have more time....
You used the effort required for 21 days and 300km as an argument for cyclists to take drugs compared to the lesser effort required for 3 90 min games of football etc... I highlighted the single day races as they are more comparable to a footballers 90 mins (using football because you did not as in its the only )... And in those races there was/is still doping...
On the case of riders that win in the early season (or any particular patch) and do little else where... Im not convinced that to mean doping... Hardly any riders today ride the whole season... That is in most cases more a sign of the times than doping...
There was actually a similar set of rumours etc throughout the early season of 98 with festina at the top of the list....
Of course being a lesser sport on the world stage these stories were limited to the likes of l'equipe , gazzetta , corriere and a a weekly in the uk rather than the world stage of football... though surprisingly the juve story has been hidden well from the worlds press pages....
Eric Ryckaert was the Festina team doctor
"massacre à la chaîne" is a wonderful insight to the world of a top soignuer of the number 1 cycling team on the planet in an era of rife drug use...
I have reccomended this book on here several times... There are actually large excerpts from the book in this thread somewhere...
Its an eyeopening book, to say the least...
The Horse Doctor..... "Doctor Mabuse" Himself... Bernard Sainz
Couldnt agree more... Its also interesting to note that at this time of these events.... Armstrong is currently suing ebay sellers of his livestrong bands (a charity i support whole heartedly btw) on 'Moral' grounds... lol
It also annoys me immensely that this fraud has robbed a man, widely accepted within the cycling world as one of the greatest natural talents of all time, a man like previously mentioned bassons is one of the few riders who are without suspicion of fulfilling his destiny of becoming the first 6 times winner.... Jan Ullrich...
Yes he has had his problems and made his mistakes ( depression, drink driving, banned for taking extacy at a party whilst injured, weight issues and several injuries) but everyone knows he the most gifted cyclist of the current era and among the most talented ever... Without lance he would now be on 6... as his talent deserves... A real shame
The UCI announced today they are looking at these reports and will issue their findings on the armstrong case next week...
Can you really question eddy being the greatest... I dont think so... his palmarès are unbelievable.... Though of course i personally pick hinualt as the best of all time... He was much more than jus a winning machine that eddy was... he changed the face of cycling... The one and only 'Patron'
But then if you look to indurain he also won 7 grand tours... plus much more than lance besides
Bernard Hinault won 11 grand tours plus everything else on the calender...
The list goes on of riders that did far more than lance...
Yet people like to say Lance is the best ever... get real
I'll come back to pantani, virenque, Lou Gehrig’s etc when i have more time....
You prove my point, oh master of the Salami.
You know better than I do about the amount of evidence produced by the prosecution at the Juve Doping Inquest. You obvioulsy believe that the evidence was sufficient to support a conviction. But, I'm sure you would agree that it makes no sense that one defendant was convicted while the other was acquitted on the exact same evidence.
Having said that, the amount of evidence introduced against Andreotti was far greater that the evidence introduced against Agricola. Yet, due to his standing and connections, Andreotti was acquitted. It is a tragedy that Andreotti was cleared and your father sits behind bars. Which of these two men was the more corrupt, the more culpable, and the more deserving of punishment?
You know better than I do about the amount of evidence produced by the prosecution at the Juve Doping Inquest. You obvioulsy believe that the evidence was sufficient to support a conviction. But, I'm sure you would agree that it makes no sense that one defendant was convicted while the other was acquitted on the exact same evidence.
Having said that, the amount of evidence introduced against Andreotti was far greater that the evidence introduced against Agricola. Yet, due to his standing and connections, Andreotti was acquitted. It is a tragedy that Andreotti was cleared and your father sits behind bars. Which of these two men was the more corrupt, the more culpable, and the more deserving of punishment?
We see this all too often today, the celebrity personality being sort of "let off" with just a slap on the wrist if at all. I am NOT saying that it is a constant thing, and to tell the truth I have no bloody clue as to the gents you are speaking of, but I am just speaking from a general point of view.
Libero, A bit of light reading that may answer some of your questions and shows the thoughts of those that were involved :
Bad blood between Manzano and Kelme
Former Kelme professional Jesus Manzano has spoken out about alleged doping practices within his team, describing at length his experiences which he claims left him seriously ill on two occasions in 2003. Manzano, who rode for Kelme between 2000 and 2003, was fired from the team during the Vuelta a España after sleeping with a woman during the race, thereby breaching team conduct. Some say that he is now seeking revenge on his former team, and his comments have gained a lot of attention in the Spanish media.
In an extensive interview with AS, Manzano explained that he and the cyclists on Kelme used blood transfusions to keep themselves "healthy" during the season. Before the Tour de France, he had a litre of blood removed and stored as two 500 mL portions. Manzano noted at the time, "One thing I did not see as normal was to leave the portions in a plastic tray without marking them, if you are going to extract from more people. The first thing you should do is to mark them and put them in a blood bank. We are not dogs, we are people and we have the right to be treated as such...Then I became aware that you must first do a cross check to see if it's your blood that is going to be put back into you."
Manzano said that he put in €3,000 at the start of the Tour to cover "medication", and he supposed that the other riders put in the same amount. But because by the end of the race the team's prizemoney was almost non-existent, they actually made a loss.
Manzano described the first part of the Tour as "normal" but things suddenly changed in stage 7. "It was the first mountain stage and in the morning they tested a substance that I had not experimented with. This substance was taken according to your weight. It is injected into a vein and the unique thing that it does is to keep your hematocrit low but raise your haemoglobin.
"In the morning they injected 50 ml of this product into me. Before the start I was in the village, I spoke on the phone with my girlfriend, Marina, and I told her: 'Prepare yourself, because I know today that I am going to ride well."
On the day's first climb, the Cat. 2 Col des Portes (km 50), Manzano and Richard Virenque set off to try and catch the early break with Paolo Bettini, Rolf Aldag, Médéric Clain and Benoît Poilvet. Virenque would not work with Manzano as he had Bettini in front, leaving Manzano to try and close the gap himself. But after three kilometres of climbing, "I started to have sensations of dizziness, with a lot of heat, very cold sweat, contrasts of hot and cold, but above all, a lot of cold. In spite of the July heat, I began to shiver and feel strange. Virenque looked at me and attacked. I went for another half a kilometre and there was a corner. It was so hot that the tar of the asphalt had melted...the only thing I remember was that I was dizzy and I could not longer ride straight, if I crashed, whether they would carry me off, where they would take me."
Manzano recalled his experiences subsequent to his crash, and said that he was given an injection in the ambulance as well as an electrocardiogram. "I felt strange, as if my tongue had swollen, as if I couldn't breathe. If they had put a hole in my throat I would have thanked them."
Manzano believed that whatever he took in the morning before the stage resulted in his near catastrophic dehydration. After the Tour, he began to get depressed and afraid, and lost his desire to race. One night his team director told him that he was going to do the Tour of Portugal. "I don't know if I am going to race any more," said Manzano, to which his director replied "I you don't race any more this year, you won't race next year." "Man, if I don't race year, why would I want to race the next!" were Manzano's final words.
A few days later in Valencia, Manzano was asked to 'reclaim' his second half litre of blood. "It was July 25 I think. I was in Valencia, I slept in a hotel and the team personnel were already saying to me that there was a problem during the Tour that affected the team, that there was a positive case, but it was nothing to do with me."
Manzano got on a train to Valencia and met an assistant of the team doctor who gave him his blood. "There were no cross checks...it could have been the blood of Pepito Flores," he said. He was injected with 125 ml of blood and immediately "I started to feel very, very bad. Chills and shivers, even with the blankets they gave me I felt colder than if I was at the North Pole."
"If they had put in half a litre I would have returned in a pine box," he continued. "They put 125-175 ml in me and this happened...I understood that the blood was at the Tour and wasn't stored properly."
Despite feeling this way and still shivering, Manzano got in a taxi to go back to the station at Valencia. "I got on the train, went in first class and felt a lot warmer. My girlfriend went and asked if they could turn off the air conditioning. And they asked her if I would be able to survive until Madrid. The guard decided to turn it off and even so I asked him for a blanket, but they didn't have one. There was a man in front of me who said 'This boy will not last, he'll die.' The train wouldn't start unless I got off. The team manager called a doctor and he came. He took me on his shoulders and carried me back to the clinic. And they started to give me more Urbason [a Prednisolone derivative with anti-inflammatory action]."
Manzano passed a another terrible night and in the morning the team director called him to ask him not to tell anyone else on the team. "How could I not do it? It could have happened to someone else too."
More revelations from Manzano
Spanish ex-rofessional Jesus Manzano has continued to blow the whistle on the alleged doping practices within his former team, Kelme. In the second part of an in depth interview with Spanish sports newspaper AS, Manzano has gone into more detail about the use of illegal substances such as erythropoetin (EPO) and human growth hormone (HGH), with more to come.
Manzano said that HGH could be taken during training and during competition, because it is not able to be detected in drug controls. He also said that it is commonly taken with insulin in order to maximise its effect. But sometimes, as with the blood transfusions that he described previously, the riders experienced negative reactions to the drug.
During last year's Tour of Portugal, the Kelme team pulled out en masse in the first two days, blaming gastrointestinal problems. At the time, the team's directeur sportif José Luis Laguia said, "Honestly we don't know what happened, and we don't think it was a problem in the hotel, because there were more teams staying there who didn't have any problems. We don't know if it was dehydration during training yesterday or some bad water that they drank. Now the riders will return to Spain and there we will look for an explanation as to what has happened. We only know it was related to gastrointestinal problems."
Manzano, who was one of the last Kelme riders to pull out on stage 2, put a different spin on the situation. "I think that there was a pact made between the riders, because of what happened in the Tour where there was a positive test [later announced as Javier Pascual Llorente], I don't know if some of my teammates were afraid," said Manzano. "Certainly I did not inform them of the positive and continued hiding it after Valencia."
Manzano said that he took some Genotonorm [HGH] at the hotel after stage 1 and continued to race. Because HGH is not able to be detected, "There is an open bar to use it." He also named Humatrope, Norditropin and IGF1 as products he used. "There's a pile of [these products] because each laboratory has its own brand," he said, going on to detail the exact quantities and cost of each product that he would take.
After Manzano took the Genotonorm, he started having problems with diarrhoea and vomiting the next morning. He rode until halfway through stage 2, when he abandoned. On the way home to Spain, he said his team director called him to pass on the news that his salary was to be raised, and believed that the main reason for this was so that he could afford to buy more drugs.
Training camps at altitude and EPO
In order to use EPO without being caught by a surprise drug control, Manzano explained that a team training camp at altitude was the perfect place to do it, as living at altitude stimulates red blood cell growth. "But if you are at 46 percent haematocrit, you are not going to go up to 50 percent in 15 days," said Manzano. "Perhaps it was done to create a false appearance. The people have always been afraid of a scene, and panic at surprise controls at home. It's best to be away."
Manzano then went onto describe the various types of EPO that could be used: Eprex, Neorecormon, Epocrin (Russian EPO), Epomax. "You prepare yourself with this before the start of races. EPO is utilised in certain periods, depending on form peaks. You can't take it all year to race well, because you will have some high values. I would take it 15 days before a race."
Manzano described (and was photographed) how he would inject himself with EPO, either subcutaneously or intravenously, depending on the desired effect. "EPO stimulates the bone marrow and increases red blood cells. It depends on each rider. Now I have not trained for a while and have a haematocrit of 46%...but if I train 100 kilometres a day, it would remain at 42%. Therefore it's not the same as a person who has 48% naturally, because in that case they could only go up two points while I could raise eight, up to 50%."
Some riders are "very stupid" according to Manzano, because they use products like Darbepoetin Alfa (Aranesp), which has a much greater range of detectability than EPO, which can still only be detected within three days of its use.
Returning to blood transfusions, Manzano said that he would use EPO increase his blood cell count until his haematocrit was very high - sometimes up to 56% - which can lead to sudden cardiac arrest. "Then I had a telephone and I set the alarm for every two hours, I took a pile of aspirins which they say dilutes the blood."
He would extract a litre of this red cell enhanced blood for use during the major tours, when riders' haematocrits tend to drop quite markedly after a week of racing. "If it wasn't for all this, I don't believe that the average of 41 km/h in the grand tours would be possible," he said.
Avoiding controls
"At the moment it's not difficult to fool the UCI 'vampires' [doctors who do surprise haematocrit tests in the morning of a race]," Manzano explained. "You get half an hour after the medical inspectors turn up and notify you, so the riders with low levels go down first. It's a practice to gain time. The [team] doctors are always prepared. The rest of the cyclists, who have the highest values, are given human plasma and glucose and go down to do the controls at the end. These can lower your haematocrit level by four points.
Manzano noted that all the water that accumulates in the body can make you "ride like a dog" during the stage. "Imagine what it's like to ride with a litre of liquid inside you rather than one that can be carried." He added that the UCI would be better off testing riders (including urine tests) at 7pm in the evening and giving them only 5 minutes to prepare.
In the final part of the second AS interview, Jesus Manzano hints at some of the other drugs that are used, including cortisone "which removes pain and gives you strength" but can lower your haematocrit and have many other negative side effects if over used. Geref (stimulant), Neoferinon, Androgel (testosterone), nandrolone (for the winter), synthetic haemoglobin and Actovegin. "There are many things to explain, but we will do that in the next few days," he finished.
Manzano's laundry list
In the third installment of his tell-all interview with Spanish paper AS, Jesus Manzano offered still more specific details supporting his claim that his former Kelme team was engaged in systematic use of doping products. While the Kelme management has formally denied Manzano's claims, the Spaniard has painstakingly outlined the specific substances and methods he says he has used personally.
Oxyglobin, Actovegin, and Nandralone are just a few of the substances Manzano describes, substances that came in a variety of strengths and from different sources. Oxyglobin, for example, was cited by Manzano as a substance designed for animals, while its counterpart Hemopure is designed for humans. It was Oxyglobin that Manzano says he used twice in 2003, once at the Spanish national time trial championships and once at the Tour de France, on the ill-fated day he became sick and crashed out of the race while in a break with Richard Virenque. A product used to boost performance within the period of a day, Manzano explained how he used it in the Tour de France, and how detection was not a major concern.
"The vampires [the UCI's pre-race blood testers] either come in the morning or they don't come at all, so you can use this later and have the effect throughout the stage," Manzano told AS. "By the time you finish, it's been absorbed since it's not a long-lasting product."
Nonetheless, as he described in his earlier interviews, improper use of any given substance could lead to dire results.
"What happens is it can sit well with you, or it can sit badly, because we're talking about an animal product," he said. "You can't give a person the whole quantity, you have to calculate the right amount based on weight. It's often used for dogs with anemia and cases like that."
Manzano considers his exit from the 2003 Tour to be the result of a result of poorly executed blood transfusions involving the use of Oxyglobin.
"Actovegin gas bus"
Actovegin, another animal product, is essentially the plasma of a young calf. Manzano noted that the product he used was came from Germany and was quite expensive, referred to in cycling as the "gas bus", meaning it was used for particularly difficult races or stages. Actovegin is said to oxygenate the blood and provide a significant boost in power over a short time.
"In the short time trials it was used in the morning, but for difficult stages where there would be a lot of attacks, it was injected the previous day," Manzano explained. "When preparing for a time trial the 'gas bus' is combined with bicarbonate, lactic acid, and a brand of caffeine that is injected in the buttocks, which by the way, really hurts."
Cortisone
Former Cofidis professional Philippe Gaumont described his use of Cortisone in his own confession of how he avoided doping controls during competition, noting in one instance that he would scratch his testicles with salt to cause an inflammation which in turn would allow him to receive a prescription for a topical solution. This could be justified in light of doping controls, but instead of the ointment prescribed, different forms of the drug were used to enhance performance.
Manzano also described his use of Cortisone, echoing some of Gaumont's descriptions of a sort of bait and switch tactic, whereby permission is gained for the use of Cortisone to treat a non-existent problem, clearing the way for elevated levels which will likely be detected in the doping controls.
Manzano also noted the differences in regulation between various countries, specifically France and Spain, where different levels of the substance prompt positive test results. Cortisone, like other substances, also comes in a variety of forms, some topical, others by injection, and according to Manzano, a French version which is taken in tablet form. He insists that mixing the various forms is not advised since they are of different chemical compositions. However it seems every drug has its code word in the peloton, meaning white Cortisone tablets were not to be confused with "whites", or caffeine tablets.
"There are many forms of Cortisone," Manzano said, "we could sit here for a week talking about them."
Nandralone
Just as Manzano previous described EPO as a tool used in training, given recent developments in identifying EPO in doping tests, he outlined the use of Nandralone as a training helper. He noted commercial brands such as Deca Druabolin from Argentina or Greece, either in injection form or as tablets. "They can be white, yellow, or red," he said, referring to what he also saw as clandestine production of the drug in Spain.
"People say that Nandralone is used in competition, but really it's used in the winter," Manzano added. "It's for training in the gym. You work out in the gym and Nandralone helps you... You can start taking Nandralone in October, because if you take too much while you're on the bike it can block you. It reduces power. It's more for the gym... used for building muscle."
Manzano noted that the tablet form was less effective than injections, but also less expensive. Use of Nandralone would often be tapered around December, depending upon the timing of a rider's objectives in the coming season.
Manzano's experiences also include the use of testosterone and human growth hormones. All told, he offered a veritable laundry list of substances to boost performance both in and out of competition, which he feels was directed by his employers. "I insist on what I said the other day," he concluded. "All of the EPOs can give a positive result, and if there is one doctor who orders you to take it and another who doesn't, what do you do? If I disobeyed and didn't ride, I'd be out on the street."
Manzano has no doubt ruffled quite a few feathers with his allegations, and fears for his own safety now that the story has gone public. "I don't know how long I am going to live," he said. "Threats have come from people who didn't want this to come to light. It's all been kept quiet because of money."
Manzano destroyed by cortisone
Like a runaway train, ex-Kelme pro Jesus Manzano continues to pour forth his confessions of how he doped himself with illegal drugs in order to keep racing. Although not naming any other riders in his team who may have done similar, Manzano does point a lot of blame at his team doctors, whom he alleges assisted him in many of his doping episodes, as he was unable or unwilling to do it himself. And Manzano also places no small degree of responsibility on his team directors for pressuring him into performing beyond his limits.
In part 4 of his interview with AS, Manzano describes how he was injected with cortisone nearly every day of the 2003 Vuelta in order to 'help' some tendonitis in his knee. "It was cortisone, cortisone, cortisone...For my knee injury. One day yes, one day no, another day yes...They were injecting me almost every day.
"I began getting injections at the beginning of the Vuelta because it was getting annoying. A man who had nothing to do with the team came to give the injections. He was a friend of the director. I didn't think a rider who is [in good shape] should need injections throughout the Vuelta a España, because soon enough I could see the hole that was left in my knee.
"I talked with a rider during the race who was going to see a doctor in Barcelona for a knee problem that he had. But they told me I shouldn't see a doctor, and if I did I'd have to pay with my own money! When I got back to the hotel they continued injecting, injecting...I thought on the stage to Cerro Muriano I was going to die of pain. Still they told me I was lying. I didn't think I'd be able make it over the climbs on the stage at Cordoba."
Manzano now claims that he can't ride a bike any more because of the cortisone, which has a destructive affect on bodily tissue. Now whenever he puts any pressure on the pedals, his knee swells up and he gets a big haematoma.
Manzano also defends himself against accusations that he is making all this up, or that he was doping completely of his own volition. "Some people will say this is just my story," he said. "But how would I know how to inject something in my knee, with all the tendons and ligaments... You have to be a doctor or somebody who knows how to inject, and where. How was I going to go around injecting myself in the back of my leg? You have to be relaxed."
Using other people's blood
One thing Jesus Manzano did draw the line at was getting a blood transfusion with someone else's blood, although he says the choice was offered to him. "Ultimately, I've heard that other people can be utilised for blood transfusions. Look, I've not done that, because in life you must be sincere and not a liar. They offered it to me. I don't have to put the lives of my mother, of my family and of my girlfriend in danger. They offered it to me because a rider when he is racing cannot take products such as EPO. What would happen is to enrich the blood of some person and extract it, before they do the test.
"They offered to do it with my girlfriend, Marina, and with certain others. They asked me if there was some relative with the same blood group as me...It's too much that I'm putting my own life in danger. With all the crap that there is, all the hypocrites covering it up...I'm not going to say if others have utilised it. I don't give names, I'm only accusing myself, no-one else. Neither sportsmen, ex-teammates, teams... That remains clear in this interview, that I don't blame anyone. Is it worth it?
A cycling junkie?
Manzano said that he could 'puncture' himself 12 or 13 times a day, including injecting himself with EPO (sometimes twice a day) and doing his own blood tests. On some days he would measure his hematocrit four times: once in the morning, once after training, once in the late afternoon and once at night. Then he would take doses of growth hormone, folic acid, vitamin B-12 and iron, and finally serum and aspirins to stop his blood thickening too much.
"And there are some days that you have to inject cortisone or HMG, which is a male hormone to balance the testosterone with epitestosterone, or you take some cofactor, like Geref, Neofertin, things like that, that are expensive treatments compared to the ones we have already spoken about."
"You puncture yourself in various places. In the bum...in the veins of the elbows, in the hands...and even in the legs. Look at the elbows, look at the hands. You can see them...My girlfriend, Marina, told me that if she knew that a cyclist had to inject himself so many times, she would have preferred that I never become a cyclist. She said it's shameful.
Manzano said that a "good treatment" has to be started a month and a half before a big race, "because you have to stop if 15 days before competition, although other companions have recently spoken of three days, but you leave 15 because look at what happened in the past [in the Tour].
Insulin: not for Manzano
Manzano finally mentioned insulin, which he says is combined with other drugs. He says he was instructed to use it directly after hard training, referring to a medical plan that he says was given to him by his team's doctors. "I don't know why it's used, because it's something that, to tell the truth, I have never used. I am not diabetic. A diabetic has to give himself insulin, no?...Really, in this case, I don't know what function it has."
While there are no doubt more revelations to come in the Manzano affair, the ex-Kelme rider believes that the riders should not be the only ones sanctioned when they return a positive test. "You know what would put an end to this? When a rider is positive, sanction the doctor and director: two years each. Because a director says that tomorrow there is climbing and it will be war. And the medico, pam, pam, pam, pum, pum, pum, pum. And automatically, war. And if the director is a guerilla, you'll be attacking all day.
"I ultimately thought I was ready to leave. Besides, I already told my partner. We'll start a clothes store, or something like that. And if I have to eat one cutlet instead of two, so be it."
Manzano Part V
Jesus Manzano's detailed explanations of his downward spiral into doping continue, with the fifth episode published by AS on Sunday. In it, he describes the pressure to dope and when he started doing so, as well as his concerns about his health.
"I don't accuse anyone but myself of doping, but you can see the circle you are put in. They all talk of a vicious circle. You enter it and it's not that you can't leave it, but when I said I didn't agree with something they said I didn't have any balls and was shit."
Manzano said that he didn't dope as an amateur. "Yes, I took caffeine, but that is another thing," he said. He recalled in the amateur Championship of Spain in Cordoba he finished second behind a Basque rider, and afterwards went to hotel where there was a professional team staying. The doctor measured his blood values and was surprised that Manzano's hematocrit was "only" 40 percent.
"I never took EPO nor growth hormone as an amateur. Never. They say that category is rotten, but I don't know. In my time, it wasn't. I have to say, and I mean it, that before I was an amateur I never took recovery products. And in the amateurs I started to help myself recover. With serum, with any glucose serum, I would inject two syringes of 20cc. That was in the amateurs. I don't hide anything. I'm not a coward.
"I started this sport with the greatest dreams in the world, because I set myself a goal and I wanted to work to win money or to be someone. I don't think I was that bad as an amateur, when I won the Vuelta a Extremadura, came second in the Championship of Spain, third in the Vuelta a Sevilla. And I only raced six months in that category."
It took three years in the pro ranks for Manzano to pass from being a clean amateur to a doped professional. "You have to face these things for yourself to see that they are there. I have started to see things, clearly, everything has side effects. It's said of growth hormone that if you have had an illness, it's like it stimulates it so that you get it again. Ultimately I have thought that I will die before I reach 50. You realise that you are playing with products that can make you sick."
Manzano contends that it is too difficult to do more than one three week Tour without medical help. "Of course you could race without doping, but a cyclist would not be able to do the Tour and Vuelta, for example. You would be there, but there would be things you couldn't do because you would be at the limit. You would recover a little bit, but if your iron dropped, how would you recover?"
Manzano believes it would be possible if the stages were reduced from 200 to 140 km. "And the cyclists will give more of a spectacle."
The Pressure
"They forced me to dope? That's a difficult question to answer. But I don't want to hide from it. I insist that this is the fish that bites its tail. You enter into professional cycling with all the dreams in the world, believing that you are going to make a future for yourself, and the more results, the more you earn. The doctor comes to you and tells you: we are going to give you that. If you tell him no, you can throw away the next year.
"Why doesn't the ACP (Association of Professional Cyclists) do anything? I don't have an answer. I believe that the ACP should exist to support all cycling. I received a telephone message in which they told me that a pact of silence was taken. Not these exact words, but more or less. Then there was that petition that was signed by the peloton."
Manzano called on the ACP to open a way of investigating affairs like this and to defend riders' rights, particularly after the way he claims he was ejected from the 2003 Vuelta España. After the 19th stage, which didn't go well for the team, Manzano said he was talking to a female friend in his room when the director and manager knocked on the door. Manzano agreed to talk to them and let them in. His director said:
"'You don't start tomorrow, not because your behaviour is displeasing me. But, we believe that you could be at 50.' And I told them how could I be at 50, when two people were measured with me. They thought I was doping myself. But why would I do that? There is no EPO now that won't give a positive."
That was the end according to Manzano, and he was dismissed from the team. Kelme didn't pay him in December, claiming he had to send back his bikes. He did so, but says he hasn't received a peseta since. Later he was accused of drug trafficking, but denies this strongly.
"I don't deal in the white powder, as a director who called to my house has said. That is very serious. If I did I would have seven cars, seven house and not be renting a house. I have not taken cocaine. I tried a bit when I went to an institute and I became so hungry I bought a Pepsi and a packet of gummies. Never again."
Addicted to Prozac
"Drugs and doping are different things. It doesn't mean that a rider will become addicted to cocaine through cycling. But yes, you become dependent on other things such as antidepressants, Prozac. You take two tablets a day and you are already euphoric. All of that leaves you with an addiction. It's not positive. The tablet of happiness, I've heard it being called...You don't sleep. So many days, so much pressure and stress. In the morning, breakfast, then the bus, this and that, race, shower, massage, supper, another thing. You resort to Prozac, Floxetina, they are drugs that really hook you.
"I've taken it for races, for ages, and after the Tour I went to the head doctor because I was depressed. He gave me Prozac. When I was down, depressed, I always took Prozac. I have prescriptions, justifications from the doctor. From there to drugs is just a step. But no-one can accuse me of dealing in the white powder. That is very serious."
Manzano's list
A list of the products that Manzano has referred to in his interviews.
Actovegin (extract of calves blood which supposedly improves oxygen carrying capacity)
Albumina H. (protein in blood plasma)
Androgel (testosterone)
Aranesp (Darbepoetin alfa = super EPO)
Celestote (corticosteroid)
Eprex (EPO)
Genotorm (growth hormone)
Hemoce (plasma)
Deca durabolin (anabolic steroid)
Humatrope (growth hormone)
IgF1 (insulin growth factor 1)
Neofertinon (hormone to stimulate ovulation and estrogen production)
Neorecormon (hormone that regulates red blood cell production)
Norditropin (growth hormone)
Nuvacten (corticosteroid)
Trigon (asthma drug)
Urbason (corticosteroid)
Ventolin (bronchial dilator)
Oxandrolona (anabolic agent)
Vitamin B12 (essential B vitamin)
Triamcinolona (corticosteroid)
Testoviron (testosterone)
Aspirina (analgesic, anti-inflammatory)
Oxyglobin (artificial haemoglobin intended for anaemic dogs)
Hemopure (artificial haemoglobin)
Ferlixit (iron)
Caffeine (stimulant)
Hemassist (artificial haemoglobin)
Prozac (antidepressant)
Bad blood between Manzano and Kelme
Former Kelme professional Jesus Manzano has spoken out about alleged doping practices within his team, describing at length his experiences which he claims left him seriously ill on two occasions in 2003. Manzano, who rode for Kelme between 2000 and 2003, was fired from the team during the Vuelta a España after sleeping with a woman during the race, thereby breaching team conduct. Some say that he is now seeking revenge on his former team, and his comments have gained a lot of attention in the Spanish media.
In an extensive interview with AS, Manzano explained that he and the cyclists on Kelme used blood transfusions to keep themselves "healthy" during the season. Before the Tour de France, he had a litre of blood removed and stored as two 500 mL portions. Manzano noted at the time, "One thing I did not see as normal was to leave the portions in a plastic tray without marking them, if you are going to extract from more people. The first thing you should do is to mark them and put them in a blood bank. We are not dogs, we are people and we have the right to be treated as such...Then I became aware that you must first do a cross check to see if it's your blood that is going to be put back into you."
Manzano said that he put in €3,000 at the start of the Tour to cover "medication", and he supposed that the other riders put in the same amount. But because by the end of the race the team's prizemoney was almost non-existent, they actually made a loss.
Manzano described the first part of the Tour as "normal" but things suddenly changed in stage 7. "It was the first mountain stage and in the morning they tested a substance that I had not experimented with. This substance was taken according to your weight. It is injected into a vein and the unique thing that it does is to keep your hematocrit low but raise your haemoglobin.
"In the morning they injected 50 ml of this product into me. Before the start I was in the village, I spoke on the phone with my girlfriend, Marina, and I told her: 'Prepare yourself, because I know today that I am going to ride well."
On the day's first climb, the Cat. 2 Col des Portes (km 50), Manzano and Richard Virenque set off to try and catch the early break with Paolo Bettini, Rolf Aldag, Médéric Clain and Benoît Poilvet. Virenque would not work with Manzano as he had Bettini in front, leaving Manzano to try and close the gap himself. But after three kilometres of climbing, "I started to have sensations of dizziness, with a lot of heat, very cold sweat, contrasts of hot and cold, but above all, a lot of cold. In spite of the July heat, I began to shiver and feel strange. Virenque looked at me and attacked. I went for another half a kilometre and there was a corner. It was so hot that the tar of the asphalt had melted...the only thing I remember was that I was dizzy and I could not longer ride straight, if I crashed, whether they would carry me off, where they would take me."
Manzano recalled his experiences subsequent to his crash, and said that he was given an injection in the ambulance as well as an electrocardiogram. "I felt strange, as if my tongue had swollen, as if I couldn't breathe. If they had put a hole in my throat I would have thanked them."
Manzano believed that whatever he took in the morning before the stage resulted in his near catastrophic dehydration. After the Tour, he began to get depressed and afraid, and lost his desire to race. One night his team director told him that he was going to do the Tour of Portugal. "I don't know if I am going to race any more," said Manzano, to which his director replied "I you don't race any more this year, you won't race next year." "Man, if I don't race year, why would I want to race the next!" were Manzano's final words.
A few days later in Valencia, Manzano was asked to 'reclaim' his second half litre of blood. "It was July 25 I think. I was in Valencia, I slept in a hotel and the team personnel were already saying to me that there was a problem during the Tour that affected the team, that there was a positive case, but it was nothing to do with me."
Manzano got on a train to Valencia and met an assistant of the team doctor who gave him his blood. "There were no cross checks...it could have been the blood of Pepito Flores," he said. He was injected with 125 ml of blood and immediately "I started to feel very, very bad. Chills and shivers, even with the blankets they gave me I felt colder than if I was at the North Pole."
"If they had put in half a litre I would have returned in a pine box," he continued. "They put 125-175 ml in me and this happened...I understood that the blood was at the Tour and wasn't stored properly."
Despite feeling this way and still shivering, Manzano got in a taxi to go back to the station at Valencia. "I got on the train, went in first class and felt a lot warmer. My girlfriend went and asked if they could turn off the air conditioning. And they asked her if I would be able to survive until Madrid. The guard decided to turn it off and even so I asked him for a blanket, but they didn't have one. There was a man in front of me who said 'This boy will not last, he'll die.' The train wouldn't start unless I got off. The team manager called a doctor and he came. He took me on his shoulders and carried me back to the clinic. And they started to give me more Urbason [a Prednisolone derivative with anti-inflammatory action]."
Manzano passed a another terrible night and in the morning the team director called him to ask him not to tell anyone else on the team. "How could I not do it? It could have happened to someone else too."
More revelations from Manzano
Spanish ex-rofessional Jesus Manzano has continued to blow the whistle on the alleged doping practices within his former team, Kelme. In the second part of an in depth interview with Spanish sports newspaper AS, Manzano has gone into more detail about the use of illegal substances such as erythropoetin (EPO) and human growth hormone (HGH), with more to come.
Manzano said that HGH could be taken during training and during competition, because it is not able to be detected in drug controls. He also said that it is commonly taken with insulin in order to maximise its effect. But sometimes, as with the blood transfusions that he described previously, the riders experienced negative reactions to the drug.
During last year's Tour of Portugal, the Kelme team pulled out en masse in the first two days, blaming gastrointestinal problems. At the time, the team's directeur sportif José Luis Laguia said, "Honestly we don't know what happened, and we don't think it was a problem in the hotel, because there were more teams staying there who didn't have any problems. We don't know if it was dehydration during training yesterday or some bad water that they drank. Now the riders will return to Spain and there we will look for an explanation as to what has happened. We only know it was related to gastrointestinal problems."
Manzano, who was one of the last Kelme riders to pull out on stage 2, put a different spin on the situation. "I think that there was a pact made between the riders, because of what happened in the Tour where there was a positive test [later announced as Javier Pascual Llorente], I don't know if some of my teammates were afraid," said Manzano. "Certainly I did not inform them of the positive and continued hiding it after Valencia."
Manzano said that he took some Genotonorm [HGH] at the hotel after stage 1 and continued to race. Because HGH is not able to be detected, "There is an open bar to use it." He also named Humatrope, Norditropin and IGF1 as products he used. "There's a pile of [these products] because each laboratory has its own brand," he said, going on to detail the exact quantities and cost of each product that he would take.
After Manzano took the Genotonorm, he started having problems with diarrhoea and vomiting the next morning. He rode until halfway through stage 2, when he abandoned. On the way home to Spain, he said his team director called him to pass on the news that his salary was to be raised, and believed that the main reason for this was so that he could afford to buy more drugs.
Training camps at altitude and EPO
In order to use EPO without being caught by a surprise drug control, Manzano explained that a team training camp at altitude was the perfect place to do it, as living at altitude stimulates red blood cell growth. "But if you are at 46 percent haematocrit, you are not going to go up to 50 percent in 15 days," said Manzano. "Perhaps it was done to create a false appearance. The people have always been afraid of a scene, and panic at surprise controls at home. It's best to be away."
Manzano then went onto describe the various types of EPO that could be used: Eprex, Neorecormon, Epocrin (Russian EPO), Epomax. "You prepare yourself with this before the start of races. EPO is utilised in certain periods, depending on form peaks. You can't take it all year to race well, because you will have some high values. I would take it 15 days before a race."
Manzano described (and was photographed) how he would inject himself with EPO, either subcutaneously or intravenously, depending on the desired effect. "EPO stimulates the bone marrow and increases red blood cells. It depends on each rider. Now I have not trained for a while and have a haematocrit of 46%...but if I train 100 kilometres a day, it would remain at 42%. Therefore it's not the same as a person who has 48% naturally, because in that case they could only go up two points while I could raise eight, up to 50%."
Some riders are "very stupid" according to Manzano, because they use products like Darbepoetin Alfa (Aranesp), which has a much greater range of detectability than EPO, which can still only be detected within three days of its use.
Returning to blood transfusions, Manzano said that he would use EPO increase his blood cell count until his haematocrit was very high - sometimes up to 56% - which can lead to sudden cardiac arrest. "Then I had a telephone and I set the alarm for every two hours, I took a pile of aspirins which they say dilutes the blood."
He would extract a litre of this red cell enhanced blood for use during the major tours, when riders' haematocrits tend to drop quite markedly after a week of racing. "If it wasn't for all this, I don't believe that the average of 41 km/h in the grand tours would be possible," he said.
Avoiding controls
"At the moment it's not difficult to fool the UCI 'vampires' [doctors who do surprise haematocrit tests in the morning of a race]," Manzano explained. "You get half an hour after the medical inspectors turn up and notify you, so the riders with low levels go down first. It's a practice to gain time. The [team] doctors are always prepared. The rest of the cyclists, who have the highest values, are given human plasma and glucose and go down to do the controls at the end. These can lower your haematocrit level by four points.
Manzano noted that all the water that accumulates in the body can make you "ride like a dog" during the stage. "Imagine what it's like to ride with a litre of liquid inside you rather than one that can be carried." He added that the UCI would be better off testing riders (including urine tests) at 7pm in the evening and giving them only 5 minutes to prepare.
In the final part of the second AS interview, Jesus Manzano hints at some of the other drugs that are used, including cortisone "which removes pain and gives you strength" but can lower your haematocrit and have many other negative side effects if over used. Geref (stimulant), Neoferinon, Androgel (testosterone), nandrolone (for the winter), synthetic haemoglobin and Actovegin. "There are many things to explain, but we will do that in the next few days," he finished.
Manzano's laundry list
In the third installment of his tell-all interview with Spanish paper AS, Jesus Manzano offered still more specific details supporting his claim that his former Kelme team was engaged in systematic use of doping products. While the Kelme management has formally denied Manzano's claims, the Spaniard has painstakingly outlined the specific substances and methods he says he has used personally.
Oxyglobin, Actovegin, and Nandralone are just a few of the substances Manzano describes, substances that came in a variety of strengths and from different sources. Oxyglobin, for example, was cited by Manzano as a substance designed for animals, while its counterpart Hemopure is designed for humans. It was Oxyglobin that Manzano says he used twice in 2003, once at the Spanish national time trial championships and once at the Tour de France, on the ill-fated day he became sick and crashed out of the race while in a break with Richard Virenque. A product used to boost performance within the period of a day, Manzano explained how he used it in the Tour de France, and how detection was not a major concern.
"The vampires [the UCI's pre-race blood testers] either come in the morning or they don't come at all, so you can use this later and have the effect throughout the stage," Manzano told AS. "By the time you finish, it's been absorbed since it's not a long-lasting product."
Nonetheless, as he described in his earlier interviews, improper use of any given substance could lead to dire results.
"What happens is it can sit well with you, or it can sit badly, because we're talking about an animal product," he said. "You can't give a person the whole quantity, you have to calculate the right amount based on weight. It's often used for dogs with anemia and cases like that."
Manzano considers his exit from the 2003 Tour to be the result of a result of poorly executed blood transfusions involving the use of Oxyglobin.
"Actovegin gas bus"
Actovegin, another animal product, is essentially the plasma of a young calf. Manzano noted that the product he used was came from Germany and was quite expensive, referred to in cycling as the "gas bus", meaning it was used for particularly difficult races or stages. Actovegin is said to oxygenate the blood and provide a significant boost in power over a short time.
"In the short time trials it was used in the morning, but for difficult stages where there would be a lot of attacks, it was injected the previous day," Manzano explained. "When preparing for a time trial the 'gas bus' is combined with bicarbonate, lactic acid, and a brand of caffeine that is injected in the buttocks, which by the way, really hurts."
Cortisone
Former Cofidis professional Philippe Gaumont described his use of Cortisone in his own confession of how he avoided doping controls during competition, noting in one instance that he would scratch his testicles with salt to cause an inflammation which in turn would allow him to receive a prescription for a topical solution. This could be justified in light of doping controls, but instead of the ointment prescribed, different forms of the drug were used to enhance performance.
Manzano also described his use of Cortisone, echoing some of Gaumont's descriptions of a sort of bait and switch tactic, whereby permission is gained for the use of Cortisone to treat a non-existent problem, clearing the way for elevated levels which will likely be detected in the doping controls.
Manzano also noted the differences in regulation between various countries, specifically France and Spain, where different levels of the substance prompt positive test results. Cortisone, like other substances, also comes in a variety of forms, some topical, others by injection, and according to Manzano, a French version which is taken in tablet form. He insists that mixing the various forms is not advised since they are of different chemical compositions. However it seems every drug has its code word in the peloton, meaning white Cortisone tablets were not to be confused with "whites", or caffeine tablets.
"There are many forms of Cortisone," Manzano said, "we could sit here for a week talking about them."
Nandralone
Just as Manzano previous described EPO as a tool used in training, given recent developments in identifying EPO in doping tests, he outlined the use of Nandralone as a training helper. He noted commercial brands such as Deca Druabolin from Argentina or Greece, either in injection form or as tablets. "They can be white, yellow, or red," he said, referring to what he also saw as clandestine production of the drug in Spain.
"People say that Nandralone is used in competition, but really it's used in the winter," Manzano added. "It's for training in the gym. You work out in the gym and Nandralone helps you... You can start taking Nandralone in October, because if you take too much while you're on the bike it can block you. It reduces power. It's more for the gym... used for building muscle."
Manzano noted that the tablet form was less effective than injections, but also less expensive. Use of Nandralone would often be tapered around December, depending upon the timing of a rider's objectives in the coming season.
Manzano's experiences also include the use of testosterone and human growth hormones. All told, he offered a veritable laundry list of substances to boost performance both in and out of competition, which he feels was directed by his employers. "I insist on what I said the other day," he concluded. "All of the EPOs can give a positive result, and if there is one doctor who orders you to take it and another who doesn't, what do you do? If I disobeyed and didn't ride, I'd be out on the street."
Manzano has no doubt ruffled quite a few feathers with his allegations, and fears for his own safety now that the story has gone public. "I don't know how long I am going to live," he said. "Threats have come from people who didn't want this to come to light. It's all been kept quiet because of money."
Manzano destroyed by cortisone
Like a runaway train, ex-Kelme pro Jesus Manzano continues to pour forth his confessions of how he doped himself with illegal drugs in order to keep racing. Although not naming any other riders in his team who may have done similar, Manzano does point a lot of blame at his team doctors, whom he alleges assisted him in many of his doping episodes, as he was unable or unwilling to do it himself. And Manzano also places no small degree of responsibility on his team directors for pressuring him into performing beyond his limits.
In part 4 of his interview with AS, Manzano describes how he was injected with cortisone nearly every day of the 2003 Vuelta in order to 'help' some tendonitis in his knee. "It was cortisone, cortisone, cortisone...For my knee injury. One day yes, one day no, another day yes...They were injecting me almost every day.
"I began getting injections at the beginning of the Vuelta because it was getting annoying. A man who had nothing to do with the team came to give the injections. He was a friend of the director. I didn't think a rider who is [in good shape] should need injections throughout the Vuelta a España, because soon enough I could see the hole that was left in my knee.
"I talked with a rider during the race who was going to see a doctor in Barcelona for a knee problem that he had. But they told me I shouldn't see a doctor, and if I did I'd have to pay with my own money! When I got back to the hotel they continued injecting, injecting...I thought on the stage to Cerro Muriano I was going to die of pain. Still they told me I was lying. I didn't think I'd be able make it over the climbs on the stage at Cordoba."
Manzano now claims that he can't ride a bike any more because of the cortisone, which has a destructive affect on bodily tissue. Now whenever he puts any pressure on the pedals, his knee swells up and he gets a big haematoma.
Manzano also defends himself against accusations that he is making all this up, or that he was doping completely of his own volition. "Some people will say this is just my story," he said. "But how would I know how to inject something in my knee, with all the tendons and ligaments... You have to be a doctor or somebody who knows how to inject, and where. How was I going to go around injecting myself in the back of my leg? You have to be relaxed."
Using other people's blood
One thing Jesus Manzano did draw the line at was getting a blood transfusion with someone else's blood, although he says the choice was offered to him. "Ultimately, I've heard that other people can be utilised for blood transfusions. Look, I've not done that, because in life you must be sincere and not a liar. They offered it to me. I don't have to put the lives of my mother, of my family and of my girlfriend in danger. They offered it to me because a rider when he is racing cannot take products such as EPO. What would happen is to enrich the blood of some person and extract it, before they do the test.
"They offered to do it with my girlfriend, Marina, and with certain others. They asked me if there was some relative with the same blood group as me...It's too much that I'm putting my own life in danger. With all the crap that there is, all the hypocrites covering it up...I'm not going to say if others have utilised it. I don't give names, I'm only accusing myself, no-one else. Neither sportsmen, ex-teammates, teams... That remains clear in this interview, that I don't blame anyone. Is it worth it?
A cycling junkie?
Manzano said that he could 'puncture' himself 12 or 13 times a day, including injecting himself with EPO (sometimes twice a day) and doing his own blood tests. On some days he would measure his hematocrit four times: once in the morning, once after training, once in the late afternoon and once at night. Then he would take doses of growth hormone, folic acid, vitamin B-12 and iron, and finally serum and aspirins to stop his blood thickening too much.
"And there are some days that you have to inject cortisone or HMG, which is a male hormone to balance the testosterone with epitestosterone, or you take some cofactor, like Geref, Neofertin, things like that, that are expensive treatments compared to the ones we have already spoken about."
"You puncture yourself in various places. In the bum...in the veins of the elbows, in the hands...and even in the legs. Look at the elbows, look at the hands. You can see them...My girlfriend, Marina, told me that if she knew that a cyclist had to inject himself so many times, she would have preferred that I never become a cyclist. She said it's shameful.
Manzano said that a "good treatment" has to be started a month and a half before a big race, "because you have to stop if 15 days before competition, although other companions have recently spoken of three days, but you leave 15 because look at what happened in the past [in the Tour].
Insulin: not for Manzano
Manzano finally mentioned insulin, which he says is combined with other drugs. He says he was instructed to use it directly after hard training, referring to a medical plan that he says was given to him by his team's doctors. "I don't know why it's used, because it's something that, to tell the truth, I have never used. I am not diabetic. A diabetic has to give himself insulin, no?...Really, in this case, I don't know what function it has."
While there are no doubt more revelations to come in the Manzano affair, the ex-Kelme rider believes that the riders should not be the only ones sanctioned when they return a positive test. "You know what would put an end to this? When a rider is positive, sanction the doctor and director: two years each. Because a director says that tomorrow there is climbing and it will be war. And the medico, pam, pam, pam, pum, pum, pum, pum. And automatically, war. And if the director is a guerilla, you'll be attacking all day.
"I ultimately thought I was ready to leave. Besides, I already told my partner. We'll start a clothes store, or something like that. And if I have to eat one cutlet instead of two, so be it."
Manzano Part V
Jesus Manzano's detailed explanations of his downward spiral into doping continue, with the fifth episode published by AS on Sunday. In it, he describes the pressure to dope and when he started doing so, as well as his concerns about his health.
"I don't accuse anyone but myself of doping, but you can see the circle you are put in. They all talk of a vicious circle. You enter it and it's not that you can't leave it, but when I said I didn't agree with something they said I didn't have any balls and was shit."
Manzano said that he didn't dope as an amateur. "Yes, I took caffeine, but that is another thing," he said. He recalled in the amateur Championship of Spain in Cordoba he finished second behind a Basque rider, and afterwards went to hotel where there was a professional team staying. The doctor measured his blood values and was surprised that Manzano's hematocrit was "only" 40 percent.
"I never took EPO nor growth hormone as an amateur. Never. They say that category is rotten, but I don't know. In my time, it wasn't. I have to say, and I mean it, that before I was an amateur I never took recovery products. And in the amateurs I started to help myself recover. With serum, with any glucose serum, I would inject two syringes of 20cc. That was in the amateurs. I don't hide anything. I'm not a coward.
"I started this sport with the greatest dreams in the world, because I set myself a goal and I wanted to work to win money or to be someone. I don't think I was that bad as an amateur, when I won the Vuelta a Extremadura, came second in the Championship of Spain, third in the Vuelta a Sevilla. And I only raced six months in that category."
It took three years in the pro ranks for Manzano to pass from being a clean amateur to a doped professional. "You have to face these things for yourself to see that they are there. I have started to see things, clearly, everything has side effects. It's said of growth hormone that if you have had an illness, it's like it stimulates it so that you get it again. Ultimately I have thought that I will die before I reach 50. You realise that you are playing with products that can make you sick."
Manzano contends that it is too difficult to do more than one three week Tour without medical help. "Of course you could race without doping, but a cyclist would not be able to do the Tour and Vuelta, for example. You would be there, but there would be things you couldn't do because you would be at the limit. You would recover a little bit, but if your iron dropped, how would you recover?"
Manzano believes it would be possible if the stages were reduced from 200 to 140 km. "And the cyclists will give more of a spectacle."
The Pressure
"They forced me to dope? That's a difficult question to answer. But I don't want to hide from it. I insist that this is the fish that bites its tail. You enter into professional cycling with all the dreams in the world, believing that you are going to make a future for yourself, and the more results, the more you earn. The doctor comes to you and tells you: we are going to give you that. If you tell him no, you can throw away the next year.
"Why doesn't the ACP (Association of Professional Cyclists) do anything? I don't have an answer. I believe that the ACP should exist to support all cycling. I received a telephone message in which they told me that a pact of silence was taken. Not these exact words, but more or less. Then there was that petition that was signed by the peloton."
Manzano called on the ACP to open a way of investigating affairs like this and to defend riders' rights, particularly after the way he claims he was ejected from the 2003 Vuelta España. After the 19th stage, which didn't go well for the team, Manzano said he was talking to a female friend in his room when the director and manager knocked on the door. Manzano agreed to talk to them and let them in. His director said:
"'You don't start tomorrow, not because your behaviour is displeasing me. But, we believe that you could be at 50.' And I told them how could I be at 50, when two people were measured with me. They thought I was doping myself. But why would I do that? There is no EPO now that won't give a positive."
That was the end according to Manzano, and he was dismissed from the team. Kelme didn't pay him in December, claiming he had to send back his bikes. He did so, but says he hasn't received a peseta since. Later he was accused of drug trafficking, but denies this strongly.
"I don't deal in the white powder, as a director who called to my house has said. That is very serious. If I did I would have seven cars, seven house and not be renting a house. I have not taken cocaine. I tried a bit when I went to an institute and I became so hungry I bought a Pepsi and a packet of gummies. Never again."
Addicted to Prozac
"Drugs and doping are different things. It doesn't mean that a rider will become addicted to cocaine through cycling. But yes, you become dependent on other things such as antidepressants, Prozac. You take two tablets a day and you are already euphoric. All of that leaves you with an addiction. It's not positive. The tablet of happiness, I've heard it being called...You don't sleep. So many days, so much pressure and stress. In the morning, breakfast, then the bus, this and that, race, shower, massage, supper, another thing. You resort to Prozac, Floxetina, they are drugs that really hook you.
"I've taken it for races, for ages, and after the Tour I went to the head doctor because I was depressed. He gave me Prozac. When I was down, depressed, I always took Prozac. I have prescriptions, justifications from the doctor. From there to drugs is just a step. But no-one can accuse me of dealing in the white powder. That is very serious."
Manzano's list
A list of the products that Manzano has referred to in his interviews.
Actovegin (extract of calves blood which supposedly improves oxygen carrying capacity)
Albumina H. (protein in blood plasma)
Androgel (testosterone)
Aranesp (Darbepoetin alfa = super EPO)
Celestote (corticosteroid)
Eprex (EPO)
Genotorm (growth hormone)
Hemoce (plasma)
Deca durabolin (anabolic steroid)
Humatrope (growth hormone)
IgF1 (insulin growth factor 1)
Neofertinon (hormone to stimulate ovulation and estrogen production)
Neorecormon (hormone that regulates red blood cell production)
Norditropin (growth hormone)
Nuvacten (corticosteroid)
Trigon (asthma drug)
Urbason (corticosteroid)
Ventolin (bronchial dilator)
Oxandrolona (anabolic agent)
Vitamin B12 (essential B vitamin)
Triamcinolona (corticosteroid)
Testoviron (testosterone)
Aspirina (analgesic, anti-inflammatory)
Oxyglobin (artificial haemoglobin intended for anaemic dogs)
Hemopure (artificial haemoglobin)
Ferlixit (iron)
Caffeine (stimulant)
Hemassist (artificial haemoglobin)
Prozac (antidepressant)
