Nick Against the World (68 Viewers)

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by jaecole ] ++
How with close up replys etc can we not see what you saw from quite a bit away in the stands? That's the biggest load of crap ever. Yeah you see better overall for the game, but for close calls like that, you can see it better on a reply.

Your spot on jae... Those incidents nick mentions were shown from at least 5 angles on sky today....

In the stadium you get a better insight into what is really going on and can see the runs and off the ball work / incidents that arent shown on tv... but no.. incidents like those mentioned are seen better on tv

 

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[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Yes they can be used in many ways and cant give you input on such things as run of play.

But that's what we are talking about here.

Sure, opta stats can help out a bit for different aspects of the game, however some can be misleading. For instance posession statistics don't say anything about how teams attack; they could just be passing the ball around the back like Liverpool did in the first half without being able to create anything. They could be superior in takling simply because Milan were taking the game towards Liverpool, while the latter struggled with completing simple passes (actually they did in the first half). There are no stats for telling who was playing the better brand of football and who had the better run of play.

 

[jaecole]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
There are no stats for telling who was playing the better brand of football and who had the better run of play.

But that's simply irrelevent.

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++

There are no stats for telling who was playing the better brand of football and who had the better run of play.

No ther isnt... thats true... but there are stats for offensive and defensive passes for example... or posession in your own or your opponents half...

You also say maybe liverpool had better tackling stats as the game was being taken too them... who said they had the better stats in that department... i jus said go take a look at opta

You also forget that 'better brand of football' is totally subjective... it is purely opinion

And we are not talking about who had the better run of play as we all agree milan did in the first half... we are discussing whether milan 'dominated' which is a question the stats do indeed show the answer to

 

[jaecole]

Anyone know why they are changing the trophy? Just because of the 50? Any info on the new one?

 

[Bjerknes]

Let me go check the opta stats. For some reason when I watch the matches I don't usually pay attention to hard core stats.

 

[Respaul]

what do you mean by changing ?

A new trophy has to be made as lfc won it for the 5th time which means they now own the trophy and a new one must be made... whether it will be different or not... i do not know

 

[jaecole]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
what do you mean by changing ?

A new trophy has to be made as lfc won it for the 5th time which means they now own the trophy and a new one must be made... whether it will be different or not... i do not know

Oh right.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


Theres allways another day libero... And many more victorious ones to come, at that

Thanks Paul, though Nick pretty much answered for me.

I am sorry for getting fed up with you the last time btw. I certainly don't think that you are not entitled to speak your mind on Heysel. In fact I feel honoured that an Englishman (especially an Englishman, considering that they sometimes tend to be a bit insular) has such a deep-rooted knowledge of and interest in Italy, and more particularly in the city of Turin, where half my family lives (most of which are unfortunately "juventini doc").

 

[jaecole]

All said and done. I don't actually like Gerrard and Carragher. Both a couple of typical scouse dickheads and if they weren't playing football they would be hassling me on a saturday night on concert square

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


Your spot on jae... Those incidents nick mentions were shown from at least 5 angles on sky today....

In the stadium you get a better insight into what is really going on and can see the runs and off the ball work / incidents that arent shown on tv... but no.. incidents like those mentioned are seen better on tv

The offside flag being UP was NEVER shown on t.v. We in the stands saw it....

Milan Baros and the other Pool player being offside on the second goal is CRYSTAL CLEAR having an elevated view in the stands....I could also CLEARLY see that Baros was toying with Dida in hindering his view and suggesting he might deflect it in: Good strategy however, he was PASSIVELY offside.

The Gerrard fall I noticed on t.v. that night: he was not as clear as people suggest: Cafu was to his right and Stam a foot to his left .. his angle was quite small and he had not even lined up for the shot.
Looking at Gattuso's feet and his they never collided and Gattuso never took a stutter step to trip him.

 

[JCK]

Nice to see you posting again Baresi

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


The offside flag being UP was NEVER shown on t.v. We in the stands saw it....

Im sorry, but anyone who watched it on sky uk saw it... it was shown many times and the commentator went on about it for a while.

What they showed in italy i do not know as i am yet to watch the game in italian... I will next week

 

[jaecole]

Can't believe you consider the baros thing to rule a goal illegal. When has that ever been the case? You are looking too hard for excuses. And again, why not talk about Maldinis hand 'foul'? Surely there is more to call in that than in the Baros incident? Don't forget the counter of that error resulted in a goal for Milan. It's very easy to make up excuses.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++And we are not talking about who had the better run of play as we all agree milan did in the first half... we are discussing whether milan 'dominated' which is a question the stats do indeed show the answer to

I can't believe YOU don't see how Milan dominated 80% of the match...the first half was all Milan..

first 5 minutes of the second half: anyone forget that Shevchenko almost scored on a free kick right before the "7 minute tidal wave"??
Someone made a good point in another forum:
Dida did not make ONE SAVE that night...
Liverpool had three opportunites (actually two) and put them in...
did they really test Dida apart from that?

Extra time: Liverpool basically defended while Milan pounced from all angles and did what they want:
Tomasson was inches from receiving a pass which would have given him an open net...
Shevchenko slipped when on the receiving end of a cross and would have been one on one with Dudek.
Shevchenko was allowed the opportunity to go one on one with Dudek and even trying with the rebound.

 

[Bjerknes]

Well if Baros was indeed in an offsides position, and obstructed the view of Dida, that is considered interfering with play. If that was the case, the goal should have been called back.

Didn't the same thing happen with Milan against us in the 2003 Final? Inzaghi was offside and interfering with play, so the ref called the goal back.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by jaecole ] ++
Can't believe you consider the baros thing to rule a goal illegal. When has that ever been the case? You are looking too hard for excuses. And again, why not talk about Maldinis hand 'foul'? Surely there is more to call in that than in the Baros incident? Don't forget the counter of that error resulted in a goal for Milan. It's very easy to make up excuses.

Re-read my first post: I did not say the WIN was handed to them...or the REF made a blatant error. However, to comeback from 3-0 you need heart, perseverance and a bit of luck: calls to go your way: they had all three.

You are talking about Nesta's hand ball which I covered...it grazed his elbow which in any event was a classic case of an involuntary handball as he was actually turning his body to avoid the shot...besides amputate his arms I don't know HOW he could avoid it.

PAUL: Was Sheva's FIRST GOAL OFFSIDE??

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


Im sorry, but anyone who watched it on sky uk saw it... it was shown many times and the commentator went on about it for a while.

What they showed in italy i do not know as i am yet to watch the game in italian... I will next week

I cannot speak of SKY UK .. I can only comment on what I saw..and you know better than most than LIVE is the best way to spot on offside....

 

[jaecole]

It was a lousy save, nothing to blame for that goal but the keeper. I think you are giving Baro's too much credit. I also don't see how in the space of a moment, Nick had time to see the offside, the keepers positioning and vision and Baros interference. Maybe he should become a ref. In reality he was probably munching on a kebab.

 

[Seven]

I can't help it, but I mostly agree with Nick. The Nesta case however, was a clear penalty. Nesta was mostly lying down as Luis Garcia was going past him, but then he turned around and hit the ball with his arm. That's NOT involuntary.