Nick Against the World (36 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by jaecole ] ++


Not at all. European matchups can be won without a playmaker and often are. Hard work and solid play is much more important in Europe that depending on a playmaker imo.

Name me a side in recent history that has won the Champions League without a natural playmaker.

PS- It's not winning ordinary matches, I'm talking about winning the whole competition.

 

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[jaecole]

MU and Bayerns 'recent history' wins spring to mind.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


As sad is that may sound, but Capello was, in a way forced, to change given that Zebina was out!
Birindelli didn't show good signs against Fiorentina, and Pessotto couldn't last 90 minutes in that fullback position.

how about thuram in that possition

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by jaecole ] ++
MU and Bayerns 'recent history' wins spring to mind.

Hmm, Scholes and Scholl....

You sure about that Joey?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

scholes at least at those times was playing right behind van

 

[Dan]

Scholes a natrual playmaker? get out.But yes, Scholl was by far imo one of the greatest germans ever to gift the game.

 

[Bjerknes]

Not sure if Scholes can be considered a natural playmaker, however IMO Scholl is certainly one.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Not sure if Scholes can be considered a natural playmaker, however IMO Scholl is certainly one.

scholes was playing right behind van nisterloy at the time

 

[Dan]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++
Not sure if Scholes can be considered a natural playmaker, however IMO Scholl is certainly one.

that goes without saying. Scholes is more of a player that is confused positioing wise. He is like a striker/offensive midfielder/ Center midfielder. He has qualities in all of them but not enough to make him really great in any of those positions.

 

[jaecole]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Hmm, Scholes and Scholl....

You sure about that Joey?

I would hardly call scholes anyway near a playmaker particulary that season with his position.

Besides I wasnt talking about the winners. I mean overall. You'll find everyone of those winning teams were strong overall. A playmaker isnt vital.

Not a good time to bring it up I know, but if you look it up you'll find alot of instances were English teams without typical playmakers have defeated some of the 'best'.

Its a bonus sure and more entertaining, but certainly not critical. Liverpool could win as much as the next team. Cant really count them out as they have shown. When it reachs the semis you cant choose a winner. Anything can happen.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by jaecole ] ++


I would hardly call scholes anyway near a playmaker particulary that season with his position.

Besides I wasnt talking about the winners. I mean overall. You'll find everyone of those winning teams were strong overall. A playmaker isnt vital.

Not a good time to bring it up I know, but if you look it up you'll find alot of instances were English teams without typical playmakers have defeated some of the 'best'.

Its a bonus sure and more entertaining, but certainly not critical. Liverpool could win as much as the next team. Cant really count them out as they have shown. When it reachs the semis you cant choose a winner. Anything can happen.

Alright, well I'm talking about past winners. Natural playmakers give their sides something extra that others do not have. Of course you can win games without them, obviously, as look at our Juventus side over the past few years. For Italian sides I think we need to have a natural playmaker because we do not play very quickly, as opposed to English sides who play fast and have no need for them. For Italian teams to penetrate defenses we need more ideas in midfield to find openings for our forwards, and of course you saw today how this Juventus fairs playing slowly without creativity. You cannot expect to win without having creativity while playing slow at the same time.

So I suppose for English sides who rely on quick and direct play, playmakers are not required. However all the other sides in recent history have the likes of Zidane, Scholl, Rui Costa, and Deco to supply the ideas in midfield. Their likes are crucial for Italian and Spanish sides, and we do not have one even.

And no offense, but this is why I prefer the Italian game over the English. I have always enjoyed watching natural playmakers as they IMO are the true masters of the game. They have always been my favorite type of player.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Don Bes ] ++


how about thuram in that possition

and have TWO short central defenders against an English team?!

just inter how smart it is to have two short central defenders? Why did Materazzi get playing time when they had Cordoba and Cannavaro? or in other words, ask yourself why Cannavaro was moved to RB for a good while at inter.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

Capello's failures in Europe are no surprise..he made us lose 3 CL titles under his helm for his inability to step it up in the CL and THINK along the home and away mindset...he is brilliant tactician-wise in Serie A but never did cut it in CL. His record continues...

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
Capello's failures in Europe are no surprise..he made us lose 3 CL titles under his helm for his inability to step it up in the CL and THINK along the home and away mindset...he is brilliant tactician-wise in Serie A but never did cut it in CL. His record continues...

Honestly Nick, do you really believe that Capello was mostly at fault for Juve's elimination?

I think not. I thought that he made good choices along the way given the circumstances.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


and have TWO short central defenders against an English team?!

just inter how smart it is to have two short central defenders? Why did Materazzi get playing time when they had Cordoba and Cannavaro? or in other words, ask yourself why Cannavaro was moved to RB for a good while at inter.

makes you wonder about tudor doesnt it

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


Honestly Nick, do you really believe that Capello was mostly at fault for Juve's elimination?

No. He cannot be blamed for this failure as much as he can be for Milan's failures under his helm in the CL. That said, as a coach he should have pressed management for better players and better solutions this season. Cannavaro and Emerson were great buys but getting rid of players like Maresca, Miccoli and Divaio was unjustified. A team needs depth and a team needs options. Juve ran out of those options.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

well that depends on how much power moggi and co gave him. part of the fact that juve is a successfull bussiness is in these things.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


Honestly Nick, do you really believe that Capello was mostly at fault for Juve's elimination?

I think not. I thought that he made good choices along the way given the circumstances.

Obviously not Majed as our side lacks depth and quality. It might even be considered an achievement for Capello that he even brought us this far. I think it takes some time for new managers to get a grasp of his side, and hopefully Capello will be here long enough to win the CL. Even Mourinho himself said it would take him three years to build a side that couyld win the CL. Even if he is lying, that statement does hold some truth to it, especially for a side like Juventus that makes do with what we have.

If Moggi decides to rebuild the team this summer it will be a good move. And with Capello being the manager for a few more years, anything's possible. I think Capello's goal at Juventus is to win the Champions League, and hopefully Moggi will help him out with his goal.

NICK: How many years was Capello at Milan prior to them doing the double?

 

[Max]

The whole ****ing team is to blame. You can't blame Capello for a team that decided to start playing in the second half, and even at that, they still could not create chances. Juventus played like shit, so we have to just accept that. At least Juventus can focus on Serie A and make sure Milan doesn't win again.

The Italian teams were really affected by the week when Serie A was postponed due to the Pope's death. Football is a game in which form plays an important factor, and unfortunately, the lack of form within the players contributed to this loss. Although facing a bruised and battered team, Juventus ran into an in-form Liverpool team, and that's just unlucky. Juventus were lucky to encounter an out-of-form Real Madrid squad, so I guess this is payback.

Oh well, there's always next year.

 

[Bjerknes]

I have to concur with that. Unfortunately the death of the Pope and the stoppage of play really threw us off form, even more so than we were. I guess it was just never meant to be this season.