Nick Against the World (88 Viewers)

Bozi

The Bozman
Administrator
Oct 18, 2005
22,748
how do you think we feel, in britain they used to harp on about the importance of the 3 r's-Reading,eh...wRiting and aRithmetic....no wonder we have so many knuckle scrapers in this country
 

Bozi

The Bozman
Administrator
Oct 18, 2005
22,748
swear to god there is a deli near me called la panini now i have been wrestling with my conscience for months of whether i should go in and show them where they went wrong. as for gino fair do's franco,maybe it was an unfair post but i reserve my right to poke fun at anyone who takes themselves so seriously, i take the piss out of myself often enough
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Kaiser Franco said:
Strange, it seemed to me that they had repeatedly claimed said Italianity. That's hardly the point anyway : if they want to think they're Italian, then who am I to object? Be what you want to be, as long as you're happy. What I can't accept is them ganging up on a confused and defenceless guy like Gino for his mistakes, when they themselves have proven to have a very limited knowledge of Italian and Italy as a whole. It's hypocritical, vile and cowardly.

Want names? Vinman. This guy keeps mocking Gino's mistakes yet he once had the following sentence in his signature, and for quite some time too : "sono pazzesco circa Juve". Translation : "I am insane more or less Juve". In my and I think most ppl's book, that sounds slightly more ridiculous than "il mio bello Italia" or whatever. Yet does he get pointed and laughed at for it? Of course not. Even more than that : he goes on Xtra time slagging off some other unlucky kid by accusing him of having used an automatic translator to pick up an Italian nickname, this when his own signature smells more of automatic translation than a whistled foul on Puyol in a CL semi stinks of simulation. And I won't even go into his irremediable ignorance of the Italian historical, social, political and economic context, although that statement I saw him make months back about Italian communists being worse than fascists still gives me the shivers to this day.

More examples? You just need to ask.
To answer your point, language ability is something that's very difficult to fake. Okay, maybe not on a forum wherever everyone is as good as anonymous and I'm sure people could find ways to do it. But without some rather elaborate plot, we pretty much see people's language skills exactly for what they are. As such, if people who themselves speak poor Italian want to pick on Gino for his poor grasp of Italian (I personally find him more annoying in other aspects), then they will certainly not get any further than to be found out by someone who calls their bluff (as you did). And that's something you can't get around, it's a 'fair game' you might say.

As for picking on people for any reason at all, it's only funny for as long as everyone is in on it, once a dissenter comes along, it's impossible to ignore the immaturity and cowardice of it, it's game over. This is exactly what we and our friends did in 4th grade and we're doing the same thing now.
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
Martin said:
To answer your point, language ability is something that's very difficult to fake. Okay, maybe not on a forum wherever everyone is as good as anonymous and I'm sure people could find ways to do it. But without some rather elaborate plot, we pretty much see people's language skills exactly for what they are.
Completely disagree... and its not a matter of faking either.

Looking at people i know on a personal level who also post on forums... I generally find that those that have very good language skills (especially those that write alot in their work) show some of the poorest writing when using forums and the like... Purely because they come to these places to relax and can write as they like rather than having to write to a certain standard.

Equally people who are of a lesser writing standard often show better writing as they actually try to get it right, especially if the language in question is not their first.

To me... how a person writes on a forum has no relevance to their actual ability...



As for gino... I cant say i've ever seen him write anything in italian, besides emotional outbursts within match threads... How you can tell anything from that i do not know...
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Respaul said:
Completely disagree... and its not a matter of faking either.
Looking at people i know on a personal level who also post on forums... I generally find that those that have very good language skills (especially those that write alot in their work) show some of the poorest writing when using forums and the like... Purely because they come to these places to relax and can write as they like rather than having to write to a certain standard.

Equally people who are of a lesser writing standard often show better writing as they actually try to get it right, especially if the language in question is not their first.

To me... how a person writes on a forum has no relevance to their actual ability...



As for gino... I cant say i've ever seen him write anything in italian, besides emotional outbursts within match threads... How you can tell anything from that i do not know...
That surprises me. For people I know, I find that their standard of writing on a forum usually matches their language ability quite well. Of course, there is a difference between the way people write when they're really trying their hardest and how they write casually, but then I could as well argue that language ability is some kind of average level of the way you express yourself. If only really try hard when it matters the most, then what does it mean to say that that person has great language ability? In most cases, it will never show, right?

EDIT: at the risk of totally messing up the argument, if I score a bicycle kick once a year and otherwise I suck (because I don't care to try), does that really make me a great player?
 

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
125,451
Respaul said:
Completely disagree... and its not a matter of faking either.

Looking at people i know on a personal level who also post on forums... I generally find that those that have very good language skills (especially those that write alot in their work) show some of the poorest writing when using forums and the like... Purely because they come to these places to relax and can write as they like rather than having to write to a certain standard.

Equally people who are of a lesser writing standard often show better writing as they actually try to get it right, especially if the language in question is not their first.

To me... how a person writes on a forum has no relevance to their actual ability...



As for gino... I cant say i've ever seen him write anything in italian, besides emotional outbursts within match threads... How you can tell anything from that i do not know...
However I think this is too general. I think some people can write in basically the same way they usually use the language (wether written or spoken). On the other hand I see lots of failures with people who write on forums in attempt to write right; sometimes their attempts can be a disaster, especially when it comes to punctuation.
 

Respaul

Senior Member
Jul 14, 2002
4,734
Martin said:
If only really try hard when it matters the most, then what does it mean to say that that person has great language ability? In most cases, it will never show, right?
But how do you know its only when it matters... and for most you could argue "only when it doesnt matter" eg. on a forum..

A person who writes for a living, Who speaks in the correct manner, but then lets themselves relax and writes without care on a forum... Is only writing / speaking improperly a small proportion of the time... I know many people that fall into this category... myself included...

EDIT: at the risk of totally messing up the argument, if I score a bicycle kick once a year and otherwise I suck (because I don't care to try), does that really make me a great player?
Not quite the same, but you are indeed correct...
 

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
Respaul said:
Completely disagree... and its not a matter of faking either.

Looking at people i know on a personal level who also post on forums... I generally find that those that have very good language skills (especially those that write alot in their work) show some of the poorest writing when using forums and the like... Purely because they come to these places to relax and can write as they like rather than having to write to a certain standard.

Equally people who are of a lesser writing standard often show better writing as they actually try to get it right, especially if the language in question is not their first.

To me... how a person writes on a forum has no relevance to their actual ability...
I would agree with that, having been on both ends of that observation. I've slacked incredibly in writing on Dutch forums, falling as far back as using dialects, slang and semi-words. When it comes to other languages, most notably I'd say Italian and French, I tend to give it an extra effort because I'm less fluent.

English stands out in that... I don't particularly try because I (think I) speak it well enough, but I wouldn't say I slack off in it either... The exception that confirms the rule perhaps
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Respaul said:
But how do you know its only when it matters... and for most you could argue "only when it doesnt matter" eg. on a forum..

A person who writes for a living, Who speaks in the correct manner, but then lets themselves relax and writes without care on a forum... Is only writing / speaking improperly a small proportion of the time... I know many people that fall into this category... myself included...
Okay, but how many people write for a living and thus possibly want to relax on a forum? I don't think this pattern applies very widely outside the group of people who write for work, and most of us, I imagine, don't.

But valid point, of course.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 85)