Nick Against the World (60 Viewers)

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++




For the record the prosecution claims that while Creatine was legal the way in which it was administered by the medical staff (in terms of amounts, drug cocktails and doses) was not legal.

Thats the point that so many dont seem to realise, whether certain things were legal is not the issue , it is the way they were used

Anybody who questions this idea.. go read willy woets book.. then come back.. you will read things you cant imagine and often beyond beleif... and all of it is 100% true

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[The Pado]

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++


I am beginning to question you being a lawyer because you certainly do not think like one.

Firstly, Berlusconi owns AC Milan SpA. Berlusconi also owns Panorama, Retequattro television, CanalPlus France, Mediolanum insurance. The trial has to do with Finninvest holding corp. and as a result has nothing to do with AC Milan the team, company, its players or personnel. Maybe you can explain to me how this taints Milan as a credible team since the scandal has nothing to do with them.
If you were informed Robert you would know that Agnelli family spent time in jails, drug re-hab and died of overdoses. but how does this tie into Juve?

Secondly, the trial is not for bribery of judges and there is no "building empire". Thirdly, the law you talk about was not PASSED but RE-INSTATED By Berlusconi as it was in force from WW2 till 1993 and removed in 1993. He did not PASS the law he re-instated.
More over, it is NOt high public officials immune from prosecution it is a suspension of prosecutions until the individual steps down.

Please, if you want to talk politics or have THIS discussion with me you have to do your research and more importantly be logical.

Did I say this had anything to do with Milan Football club? NO, I did not. I pointed out that before Milanistas point fingers at Juve, Berlu's house should be in order.

Secondly, you are full of shit if you deny that Berlu has built a business empire. I said that his trial related to bribery during the building of his empire so nobody would think this related to bribery of sporting officials.

Thirdly, I simply posted what was reported on the BBC today. I made no commentary as to the Italian Constitution or the laws of the land. It is the Fact of the week. Not my opinion of the week. and I will accept your "oops" offline, Thank you very much.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

Then why say "MILAN FACT OF THE WEEK"??

CAPITANO ..give up your drowning in your own illogical thinking and more importantly grasping friggin straws here.

Secondly, For fok's sake Juve's former CEO and Doctor are on trial for doping and your telling Milan to clean house in a situation which in no way shape or form relates to the team??

My oops?? You trying to tell me that somehow Berlusconi the business man in an accident that occured in 1985 (oh yeah 1985 when he did not even own Milan..did you know that???!!!!) is somehow tied to Milan the football club.

Seriously stop before I lose all respect and extend my some fukin courtesy.

 

[The Pado]

THIS JUST IN:

BBC London reports that self-made Billionaire Silvio Berlusconi never built a business empire, and that IncuboRossanero actually knows more about everything that the BBC.

Nick, I am just reporting the news. You want to jump on somebody, jump on the BBC. That is, if contend they are reporting distortions of the facts.

Oh, one other thing regarding some of Agnelli family being in jail - This fact kind of distorts your earlier argument that Agnelli's influence was so pervassive that the no harm could come to anything under his fifdom. Do you think he could use his influence to prevent all the world's media from bad-mouthing a football club (as has been alleged in this thread), but do nothing to keep his own son out of jail?

 

[The Pado]

Again, I did not say Milan needed to clean house. This is not a Milan issue, but your president is looking tainted and still you shoot arrows at other clubs directors.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

I said he never had a BUIDLING EMPIRE..but if you didn't notice I'm letting it go because that was not the crux of my point here.

Why your posting this as a MILAN FACT OF THE DAY is beyond me because it has nothing to do with Milan...if you are to post all Moratti, Agnelli and Berlusconi business ventures it is not a football discussion anymore. See the point.

His son was not in jail in Italy. Do your research. More over, his son was a drug addict and it was not unknown that Angelli thought jail would cleanse him. Ughhh..

All of this correcting of posts in every damn thread has drained me tonight..I'm going for a late night ride on the Vespa....Good time "day o

 

[The Pado]

When did I ever say Berlu had a "Building Empire"? NEVER!!!!!!

You are in such a rush to find incorrect statements that you missed "building his business empire". When you own many television stations across Europe, Insurance Companies, and sit at the helm of one of Italy's largest corporations, then I think you have built a business empire. AM I WRONG?

 

[The Pado]

Hey Nick, be careful on that Vespa, and try not to get arrested. If you do, give Agnelli's name. You'll get out of jail, but you might find yourself on trial for this little known fact: in 1955 Milan had a goal ruled out for offside, and the match ended 1-1 with Gubbio. It has recently come to light that the linesman was incorrect in his call. Agnelli is now the leading suspect in this caper. His estate is bracing for another trial

 

[Layce Erayce]

Pad dont rattle his cage too much. He's already pretty shook up haha...

And I thought I gave you directions to set your avatar up...i dont like handling others' passwords, but if youd rather, just pm me

 

[The Pado]

Lac, I had some trouble making the pirate my avi. The computer had the audacity to tell me that Pirate was not a jpeg file. I'll figure it out after court. I mean, after I have my wank after court.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

Keep it clean Robert and stop with the wanking joke...its lame, tacky and below you. grrrrrrrrr

 

[Layce Erayce]

it isnt beyond me though is it inbunco?

 

[The Pado]

Yes, Lac it is beneath you. You must stop. This is the worst thing you've done since going to Italy to bribe those judges. That didn't turn out so well either. :LOL:

 

[Layce Erayce]

yeah but at least i found the right refs when i went there to grease their palms....and i mean with munnies

 

[IncuboRossonero]

Hey PADO:

ADVICE: Berlusconi's Finninvest holding company which has a media company under it has a magazine as its subsidiary companies entitled "Panorama". Anyways a journalist from Panorama submitted a complaint for the labour grievance arbitrator for unpaid holidays. You sure you don't want to mention that as
MILAN FACT OF THE WEEK?
Seeing as how ANYTHING he owns goes back to Milan IT COULD be a good argument for you..based on your past rationale ...hehehehhe

 

[IncuboRossonero]

" Former players Attilio Lombardo, Angelo Peruzzi, Nicola Amoruso and current team members Ciro Ferrara and Uruguayan Paolo Montero drew criticism from Judge Casalbore for stating that they also could not remember the names of the products administered to them.

Expert witnesses at last month's hearing claimed the players' red blood cell count indicated they were using the endurance-enhancer EPO (erythropoietin).

Current world player of the year Zinedine Zidane, former France captain Didier Deschamps and Italian star Alessandro Del Piero are all under suspicion of being given illegal substances by club doctors between July 1994 and September 1998, the most successful period in the Italian team's history.

Over that period, Juventus won three Italian league titles and the European Cup.

Real Madrid's Zidane played for Juventus from 1996 to 2001, but has been excused from the hearing. Former Juventus striker Gianluca Vialli has already admitted the club doctor regularly administered substances for which there was no justification.

Juventus director Antonio Giraudo and club doctor Riccardo Agricola stand accused of breaching Italy's sporting fraud laws. The players are not facing any charges."

Summary from Fox Sports.

 

[KB824]

I have a question, and it isn't totally Juve related, but it is relevant to this situation.

Why aren't the players who took these substances, if done so by illegal means, not liable for their own actions??

As an athlete, wouldn't they, or more importantly SHOULDN'T they know better than to do this? Were they forced to take these pills, or are these athletes really that stupid and believe everything that their doctor tells them, especially since doping/steroids scandals have been going on for years.

I just have a real problem with these athletes being exonerated and absolved of any wrongdoing, when ultimately they are the ones who are carrying out the final, illegal act.

Whos the fool, the trainer who tells you what to take, or the athlete who does so without so much as a second thought.

Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

 

[IncuboRossonero]

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
I have a question, and it isn't totally Juve related, but it is relevant to this situation.

Why aren't the players who took these substances, if done so by illegal means, not liable for their own actions??

They are employed by FC Juventus and cannot be blamed for company policy...not in a court of law anyways. The charges were fraud. There was no fraud on their part as it is virtually impossible to prove they knew what they took. Secondly and more importantly the decision to administer and cover it up was not their own.

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
As an athlete, wouldn't they, or more importantly SHOULDN'T they know better than to do this? Were they forced to take these pills, or are these athletes really that stupid and believe everything that their doctor tells them, especially since doping/steroids scandals have been going on for years.

This issue would be one for La Lega if they decide to look into it.

++ [ originally posted by USA Juventini ] ++
Whos the fool, the trainer who tells you what to take, or the athlete who does so without so much as a second thought.

Good point..they don't want to be treated like racehorses but sure act like one.

 

[KB824]

Nick, I see what you're saying.

But, not even as a top flight athlete, just a normal human being, if you are being given these supplements, and all of a sudden you endurance, strength,and muscle mass increase dramatically, wouldn't you at least stop and think to yourself, "well, what am I taking here?"

It wouldn't hurt to actually read the label once in a while.

And all of this talk about how the athletes wouldn't know what is legal and what isn't, that's bullshit. They get their hands on this stuff before any food or drug administration can properly test it, and when they do and subsequently deem it illegal, they go onto the next substance.

Believe me, in my years of playing high school and college sports, its downright scary what you see. We had a janitor whose only job on gameday was to pick up the syringes after they had been used by the offensive and defensive lineman in American football. And that was in HIGH SCHOOL.

So you'll excuse me if I have little to no pity at all for these athletes who plead ignorance.

 

[Martin]

They could also have taken stuff not knowing about it. I mean if you're a doctor who knows his stuff and you have a group of players who don't know anything about drugs, how hard can it be to cover it up? And it minimizes the risk of getting caught several times over by not having players who are aware of the substances.

But as Serge said, maybe the focus should be on the players to be aware of what they're taking. Have courses for it or something, after all doping is important. Then again it would be a lot easier to set up a player if the responsibility was all on him. Even now you hear they say they're afraid to eat and drink not knowing what's in the food.