Nick Against the World (45 Viewers)

flieeeekke · Dec 13, 2003

one of your most frequently used facts is that refs have relatives working for fiat therefoer they give calls to juve's favour. that's the same like saying that refs are catholics, catholic pope is polish, boniek was polish and played for juve, therefore pope supports juve , therefore god supports juve and referees are afraid to feel the wrath of god and givo calls to juve. no, this would probably make more sense.

IncuboRossonero · Dec 13, 2003

Do you read my posts or do you just start making conclusions before you complete reading it? I never said it was a fact that refs have relatives working at FIAT..I said MAYBE its a subconscious reason they feel pressure. So I really don't know what your doing. Should I re-post my other post where I said that it was just yesterday actually. Its pretty cut and dry so I fail to see how you claim its a fact that I used when in fact it was used 'I don't know maybe' 'perhaps without even realizing it the officials'. Or maybe your just trying to pull the current away from your other post where you questioned the Italian judicial system as something I made up.

flieeeekke · Dec 13, 2003

CONVENTION FOR PROTECTION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS
Rome, 4.XI.1950

Text completed by Protocol No. 2 (ETS N° 44) of 6 May 1963 and amended by Protocol No. 3 (ETS N° 45) of 6 May 1963, Protocol No. 5 (ETS N° 55) of 20 January 1966 and Protocol No. 8 (ETS N° 118) of 19 March 1985

article 6
<...>
2. Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed in no cent until proved guilty according to law.
<...>

no, it is one of the main legal principles in europe. it is MAIN principle of criminal law in all democratic countries. if it is otherwise in italy then i think italy can omited from european union. but i believe that just made a honest mistake.

learn to crawl kido

IncuboRossonero · Dec 13, 2003

FYI

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

No. And you see Tarm this is the problem with most posters here. I'm not accusing you of this but most don't read my posts but simply see RED and attack me and then resort to more childish manners. All I have been saying since the start is that "something is wrong". I never felt that Moggi carries around stacks of cash in his car and makes the weekly visit to Collina. I don't even feel that there is back room wheeling and dealing. I do feel that something is up. Maybe its undue pressure that the officials feel because: many Italians are Juve fans; Juve seems to be Italy's team; they have won the title the most times or maybe its something deeper; they have a relative working at FIAT and fear reprisials if a bad call is made: even though it never happened they may feel it. Or maybe THERE is something going on. Fact is that its not all horsesh*t, crap, conspiracy theory , jealousy or rumors when it keeps occuring every year. You can't turn a blind eye to that. Something is up and there is a reason they get the calls YEAR AFTER YEAR.

Thats what I am saying. Last season...they rightfully deserved the title.

So what exactly are you going on about? Do you know what a fact is and what an opinion is???

IncuboRossonero · Dec 13, 2003

THIS IS THE UNITED NATIONS ...what the f*ck are you trying to pull?? You think you really got to me EH KIDDO?? Wow I finally shut the Milanista Up! To explain this principal to you I would have to give you a course on Criminal Law and International Treaties. Todays youth: Pulling shit out of google and trying to counter it in an argument. See what kind of crap you can pull out. Article 6 of the UN charter is for IMPRISONMENT and so long as one is not imprisoned in a state or federal institution before trial it is respected. More over, the defence is a criminal trial has to prove on a balance of probabilites that the accused is innocent. Flipped on its head its like the Prosecutor having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he is guilty and as a result it does not contravene article 6 because its doing "a contrario". Please...I'm beginning to lose much respect for you. Pulling stats out and trying to make sense of them is one thing. Pulling out laws and trying to prove something which in fact you have no clue about is just pure h*rseshit. next time you want to talk the talk you better walk the walk.

flieeeekke · Dec 13, 2003

in fact, sometimes i domake early conclusions. but it is probably you repeat yourself very often. nevermind.

you said that this season we get very much calls in our favour and its only early season blah blah. what calls in our favour did we get this year?

IncuboRossonero · Dec 13, 2003

I need to get some air: I am depressed over the thought of the next generation of leaders who will google their way through international diplomacy. Good night Juventini...

Respaul · Dec 13, 2003

Cant speak for all euro nations... But The 2 i am a registered citizen of are as follows :

England : Innocent til proven guilty

Italy : Allthough not so clear cut is essentially guilty til proven innocent as i beleive is france and a couple of other euro nations

Your wrong fliakis

flieeeekke · Dec 13, 2003

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

THIS IS THE UNITED NATIONS ...what the f*ck are you trying to pull?? You think you really got to me EH KIDDO?? Wow I finally shut the Milanista Up! To explain this principal to you I would have to give you a course on Criminal Law and International Treaties. Todays youth: Pulling shit out of google and trying to counter it in an argument. See what kind of crap you can pull out. Article 6 of the UN charter is for IMPRISONMENT and so long as one is not imprisoned in a state or federal institution before trial it is respected. More over, the defence is a criminal trial has to prove on a balance of probabilites that the accused is innocent. Flipped on its head its like the Prosecutor having to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he is guilty and as a result it does not contravene article 6 because its doing "a contrario". Please...I'm beginning to lose much respect for you. Pulling stats out and trying to make sense of them is one thing. Pulling out laws and trying to prove something which in fact you have no clue about is just pure h*rseshit. next time you want to talk the talk you better walk the walk.

bullshit. give me the exact article of italian criminal code where it says that accused is guilty until proven innocent.
and the fact that this is the UN document means that it is not binding to countries which ratified it?

flieeeekke · Dec 13, 2003

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Cant speak for all euro nations... But The 2 i am a registered citizen of are as follows :

England : Innocent til proven guilty

Italy : Allthough not so clear cut is essentially guilty til proven innocent as i beleive is france and a couple of other euro nations

Your wrong fliakis

then it is really ****ed

Layce Erayce · Dec 13, 2003

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

Really ... why don't you show me ONE time you had to correct facts.. I'm not talking about opinions . I'm talking about facts. You make up or have mis-informed FACTS. we both know that....then you don't address it and move along. I really want to know WHAT FACT..WHAT OCCURENCE I intentionally used in my argument that was false.
Dude your sinking faster than you can say Titanic...I suggest you hit the lifeboats and FAST...I'm about to open a can of WHUPASS here Junior. The next REVIEW post of your mistakes will not be pretty.

only if i can make a comparable review post of your mistakes, cowboy.

IncuboRossonero · Dec 13, 2003

England has a common law system much like the United States, Canada and Australia. Italy and other European nations have a civil law based system. Hence why it is different.
The UN Convention is a springboard for countries and not the supreme authority of the law. You are trying to make a point when you first need to understand its application. I am being serious. The UN Convention was ratified by Italy but the system is to protect against malicious prosecution and abuse of power.
I am not an Italian lawyer so I don't know the article in the criminal code. However, one does not have to be a lawyer but just slightly informed to know that the European system and English Common law system have gone through years of debate on this very issue.

Layce Erayce · Dec 14, 2003

inbunco are you working on that post?

Ali · Dec 14, 2003

I cannot but see bitterness in your posts Incubo. You keep on repeating yourself like a broken record. And on what evidence? You already have accepted while answering Torkel (Tarm as you called him) that there is no concrete evidence as regards to your claims. Josh has pointed this out so many times! Hydde reminded you that your teams inability to beat small teams cannot be used as a scapegoat. Yet you keep on rumbling. When anyone tries to answer your posts you jump on them calling them "google kids!" If you beef with google don't release your steam on them here. We are not here to prove who knows what about teams, neither are we here to be examined on our footballing knowledge.
Josh once remarked that your situation is particularly irksome since we would understand if a daft fella does what you do. You are a smart guy just going around pissing juventini off.

Majed · Dec 14, 2003

++ [ originally posted by DaJuve ] ++
I cannot but see bitterness in your posts Incubo. You keep on repeating yourself like a broken record. And on what evidence? You already have accepted while answering Torkel (Tarm as you called him) that there is no concrete evidence as regards to your claims. Josh has pointed this out so many times! Hydde reminded you that your teams inability to beat small teams cannot be used as a scapegoat. Yet you keep on rumbling. When anyone tries to answer your posts you jump on them calling them "google kids!" If you beef with google don't release your steam on them here. We are not here to prove who knows what about teams, neither are we here to be examined on our footballing knowledge.
Josh once remarked that your situation is particularly irksome since we would understand if a daft fella does what you do. You are a smart guy just going around pissing juventini off.

Well said Ali

IncuboRossonero · Dec 14, 2003

Well for the NON-Italians who want to rub this in my face. Because make no mistake about it: ITALIAN Juve fans are were for Milan today. I went to watch the game in downtown Rome and Roman fans, Juve fans and Lazio fans were yelling at the TV. You guys are Juve fans before Italy fans ... trust me..Its an Italian thing.

I will talk about this game once so enjoy it:

Why we lost: Bad substitutions. Nesta's Injury. Seedorf's poor perfomance. Too much weight on Pirlo's back..he was full of errors and brilliant at the same time. Off game of the defence. Total confusion and lack of anything positive from the midfield for over 30 minutes.

Why we deserved to lose: Unmotivated. Uninspired and the only shining light on our team (Kaka) is benched. More over, Costacurta has NEVER been a penalty taker in his career. Not exactly a good time to start. Anyhow, I didn't like the way we played...lack of control...lack of consistency. While the game was not all one side (Kaka's post) and it was first half Milan...second half Boca and extra time: 75% Boca I felt we did not want it badly enough. Our performance reminded me of Juve's against us in the CL Final. In other words, had we won I wouldn't feel it would be deserving. Just like had you won the CL Final.

NOTE: I won't answer the above posts because no one mentioned the fact that I have had to teach half the people here the difference between a law and a convention and secondly everyone seems to think that a criminal trial is not evidence and thirdly you don't live and breath football (some of you are in the US .. I being American I remember what it was like to be a football fanatic in the US: almost second hand filtered news.) I really can't begin to explain elementary notions to people so as to make the debate fair. More over, if I get all these accusations in my post I don't understand why your fellow juventini turn around and laugh at you for not being able to stand up for me. If I'm so repetitive and unlogical why do the most respected posters here say that some of you are GOD awful in your debates and that you are never able to defend yourself. Its funny how its always the same 2-3 posters who get together to save their ass from humiliation by backing the other up.

Majed · Dec 14, 2003

just to help out the mods....would you mind putting your post game analysis in the thread it belongs in.

IncuboRossonero · Dec 14, 2003

On a bright note Saddam Hussein is captured: May he spend the rest of sad pathetic life imprisoned like the animal that he is. The words human rights should not be considered for this sub-human as he did to so many others.

Ali · Dec 14, 2003

My fellow forumers can think what they want. It's their opinion. As to me standing up for myself - The question begs why should I? Most of us know our football & this should be even more commendable since we don't live in Italy.
As a poster I respect your football knowledge but the way you put it across is GOD awful. Your grasp of the english language is masterful to the say the least. Thus am surprised that you always cut across with so much venom & arrogance. Normally I don't really get into debates which rotate on solely 1 issue. I don't believe in flogging dead horses. You know I will never agree with & you I on the subject regarding Juve & Milan.

PS/ There happens a thread dedicated to the game above.

Majed · Dec 14, 2003

nicely said again Ali.

Nick Against the World (45 Viewers)

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