News that makes you say WTF! (48 Viewers)

[Maddy]

Meh.. blaming "the wests" role in the middle east for these attacks is just as ignorant as blaming islam.

It's a complicated cocktail consisting of a totalitarian ideology with root in islam, marginalised citizens in Europe, a parent generation of immgrants/refugee who failed, a middle east in turmoil and too many conflicting interests, european societies being too laissez faire towards the culture of many immigrants; causing ghettoes and pre-enlighten view on women, democracy, freedom of speech etc.

 

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[Fred]

Those who preach radical Islam - they recruit or help recruit terrorists.
ISIS - they want a global caliphate and the fact that they control territory inspires many people around the world to join them or commit terrorist attacks.
Saudi Arabia - back in the 70s they were one of the very few fundamentalist countries, but then they got all that oil money and have been using it ever since to spread their disgusting ideology.
Qatar and all other countries that fund terrorism.

There are other contributing factors and America has done some stupid things that haven't helped, but that is totally different from saying that America has created the terrorists.

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Yes.

Actually, the West can be blamed for the Paris and Nice attacks, because they didn't send ground troops to destroy ISIS. It's long overdue and it's shameful that the civilized world tolerates this freak. There is no doubt that things would have been a lot better if the USA had attacked ISIS when they only had 1 city - Racca. But because all the terrorist-loving lefties were against it, Obama didn't do it. You know, the usual "look what happened in Iraq "lets not piss them off, it will cause more terrorism" garbage.

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I defend the civilised world. Terrorists are funded by ISIS and Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and your home country.

Without delving into the ideological and political reasons why that is highly improbable -because lets face it, you obviously know so little about the region that that would be an extremely pointless discussion to have - , did you hear about the recent terror attacks in Saudi Arabia and in Iraq?

how do those terror attacks figure in your narrative of muslims being blamed for those attacks, and how do they figure in your narrative of Saudi Arabia and Iran funding those terror groups?

 

[ZoSo]

French PM @manuelvalls: France should learn to live with terrorism

It's not about Hillary.

it's exactly what you mean. because some corrupt politicians have made deals with them, you say it like all people in the west consider them allies

 

[Fred]

Meh.. blaming "the wests" role in the middle east for these attacks is just as ignorant as blaming islam.

It's a complicated cocktail consisting of a totalitarian ideology with root in islam, marginalised citizens in Europe, a parent generation of immgrants/refugee who failed, a middle east in turmoil and too many conflicting interests, european societies being too laissez faire towards the culture of many immigrants; causing ghettoes and pre-enlighten view on women, democracy, freedom of speech etc.

Blaming "the west" is a stretch. But lets put it this way, do you not think it would have helped if ISIS didn't have a stronghold in Iraq? and do you not think they wouldn't have that stronghold had the US not illegally invaded Iraq?

 

[Maddy]

Blaming "the west" is a stretch. But lets put it this way, do you not think it would have helped if ISIS didn't have a stronghold in Iraq? and do you not think they wouldn't have that stronghold had the US not illegally invaded Iraq?

You will never see or have ever seen me defend the iraq war nor deny the impact it had on creating the foundation for ISIS.

But I will never accept the blame being put solely on "the west".

 

[Juliano13]

Without delving into the ideological and political reasons why that is highly improbable -because lets face it, you obviously know so little about the region that that would be an extremely pointless discussion to have - , did you hear about the recent terror attacks in Saudi Arabia and in Iraq?

how do those terror attacks figure in your narrative of muslims being blamed for those attacks, and how do they figure in your narrative of Saudi Arabia and Iran funding those terror groups?

Iran funds Hezbullah, do I even need to explain this one?
Saudi Arabia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia

"While Saudi Arabia is often a secondary source of funds and support for terror movements who can find more motivated and ideologically invested benefactors (e.g. Qatar), Saudi Arabia arguably remains the most prolific sponsor of international Islamist terrorism, allegedly supporting groups as disparate as the Afghanistan Taliban, Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and the Al-Nusra Front.[107]

Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism,[108] which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and others. Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide, according to Hillary Clinton.[109] According to a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups."[110]"

You are correct about one thing though - by far the largest number of terrorist victims are Muslim. It's just that the Iranian and Saudi leaders don't give a shit about their people.

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Blaming "the west" is a stretch. But lets put it this way, do you not think it would have helped if ISIS didn't have a stronghold in Iraq? and do you not think they wouldn't have that stronghold had the US not illegally invaded Iraq?

Can you answer two questions:
1. What do you think would have happened had the USA not invaded Iraq?
2. Do you think ISIS would have that stronghold had the USA not left Iraq completely in 2011-2 and had they not supported the insurgents ins Syria?

 

[Fred]

You will never see and have never seen me defend the iraq war nor deny the impact it had on creating the foundation for ISIS.

Then we are in agreement.

Iran funds Hezbullah, do I even need to explain this one?
Saudi Arabia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism#Saudi_Arabia

"While Saudi Arabia is often a secondary source of funds and support for terror movements who can find more motivated and ideologically invested benefactors (e.g. Qatar), Saudi Arabia arguably remains the most prolific sponsor of international Islamist terrorism, allegedly supporting groups as disparate as the Afghanistan Taliban, Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and the Al-Nusra Front.[107]

Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism,[108] which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and others. Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide, according to Hillary Clinton.[109] According to a secret December 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups."[110]"

You are correct about one thing though - by far the largest number of terrorist victims are Muslim. It's just that the Iranian and Saudi leaders don't give a shit about their people.

I don't disagree that Iran funds Hizbullah. How does that have anything to do with ISIS and the terror attacks in Europe though? the fact they fund Hizbullah actually makes it very likely that Iran and ISIS would be enemies and not allies, don't you think?

Let's just be clear on something; when you say Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, do you refer to Saudi Arabia officially as in the Saudi government, or do you refer to Saudi individuals who do not in any way represent the Saudi government. The latter is not something I would deny, although the former IMO is extremely improbable.

If you are saying that funding for groups like ISIS and al Qaeda comes primarily from individuals who happen to be Saudi, and therefore you are blaming Saudi Arabia in general, then that would be exactly like blaming Belgium and France for the terror attacks in Europe, because the individuals performing these terror attacks happen to be Belgian and French nationals primarily.

 

[Juliano13]

Then we are in agreement.



I don't disagree that Iran funds Hizbullah. How does that have anything to do with ISIS and the terror attacks in Europe though? the fact they fund Hizbullah actually makes it very likely that Iran and ISIS would be enemies and not allies, don't you think?

Let's just be clear on something; when you say Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, do you refer to Saudi Arabia officially as in the Saudi government, or do you refer to Saudi individuals who do not in any way represent the Saudi government. The latter is not something I would deny, although the former IMO is extremely improbable.

If you are saying that funding for groups like ISIS and al Qaeda comes primarily from individuals who happen to be Saudi, and therefore you are blaming Saudi Arabia in general, then that would be exactly like blaming Belgium and France for the terror attacks in Europe, because the individuals performing these terror attacks happen to be Belgian and French nationals primarily.

I was talking about terrorism in general. Obviously Iran and ISIS are enemies, but that doesn't make Iran good guys.

Saudi Arabia doesn't fund terrorism officialy and neither does Qatar. But it's not exactly the same thing as a British or Belgian citizen funding terrorism. The rich people in Saudi Arabia are all either part of the government, related to the royal family or at the very least well connected. The Saudi government tolerates their sponsoring of terrorism. Same applies to Qatar.

Btw, if a lot of rich people from France started financing terrorism, the French government would be partially to blame for not doing enough to crack down that activity.

 

[Seven]

Then we are in agreement.



I don't disagree that Iran funds Hizbullah. How does that have anything to do with ISIS and the terror attacks in Europe though? the fact they fund Hizbullah actually makes it very likely that Iran and ISIS would be enemies and not allies, don't you think?

Let's just be clear on something; when you say Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, do you refer to Saudi Arabia officially as in the Saudi government, or do you refer to Saudi individuals who do not in any way represent the Saudi government. The latter is not something I would deny, although the former IMO is extremely improbable.

If you are saying that funding for groups like ISIS and al Qaeda comes primarily from individuals who happen to be Saudi, and therefore you are blaming Saudi Arabia in general, then that would be exactly like blaming Belgium and France for the terror attacks in Europe, because the individuals performing these terror attacks happen to be Belgian and French nationals primarily.

Sometimes countries can be held responsible. Large scale terrorist funding from private individuals can be attributed to Saudi Arabia if they consistently fail to do anything about it.

Don't know if that's the case though, I have zero knowledge about how ISIS or other organizations are funded. And I doubt Juliano13 has more, he's assuming way too much.

In the end all of this is as simple as it is complex. The only one responsible for all this is the terrorist who has decided to carry out this attack. You have to admit that he may have been motivated by what the US (let's just say it like it is, not the west, not the UN, no, the US) did to Iraq and it's obvious huge mistakes were made there. The situation of muslims in Europe could probably be improved as well. In the end though he decides to act on his motivations, whatever they may be, and he's the only one who should be held accountable.

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[Hust]

Iran and ISIS have the same objectives in regards to who their enemies are. We will see them fighting in the same team before we see them fight themselves IMO.

 

[Seven]

I was talking about terrorism in general. Obviously Iran and ISIS are enemies, but that doesn't make Iran good guys.

Saudi Arabia doesn't fund terrorism officialy and neither does Qatar. But it's not exactly the same thing as a British or Belgian citizen funding terrorism. The rich people in Saudi Arabia are all either part of the government, related to the royal family or at the very least well connected. The Saudi government tolerates their sponsoring of terrorism. Same applies to Qatar.

Btw, if a lot of rich people from France started financing terrorism, the French government would be partially to blame for not doing enough to crack down that activity.

I agree with your reasoning, but what proof of this funding do you have?

 

[Fred]

Can you answer two questions:
1. What do you think would have happened had the USA not invaded Iraq?
2. Do you think ISIS would have that stronghold had the USA not left Iraq completely in 2011-2 and had they not supported the insurgents ins Syria?

1. Had the US not invaded Iraq, Saddam would probably have still been around. Which obviously means that ISIS would definitely be nowhere near Iraq.

It also would have meant having an evil, sadistic and power hungry dictator around who rules with an iron fist and a reign of terror on anyone who opposes him in Iraq, which is an extremely terrible option to have to choose, however unfortunately time has shown us that it probably was the least terrible option to have by some margin. Same applies to Arab spring countries, especially Libya and Syria IMO.
2. I think the US should not have been in Iraq at all in the first place, because that is what caused the vacuum of power that ISIS has taken advantage of. I think the insurgency in Syria like the one in Libya while most (ordinary) people who were for it(myself included btw) had different hopes in mind, unfortunately countries like those(and Iraq) who do not have any legitimate institutions in place and were completely dependent on previous dictators and their small tightly knit circle of influence, inevitably face absolute chaos when those dictators regimes are taken down, and no group in this region are as organized and as prepared to be able to take advantage of such chaos as radical groups are. So what inevitably happens is those radical groups create strongholds in such countries, and when they have such strongholds they then have access to resources that allows them to spread their terror all around the world. The countries they occupy are much worse off of course. Iraq, Syria and Libya are absolutely devastated by ISIS and their ilk. Yet people like you want us to apologize for the very people who have caused us more misery than they've caused you.

 

[Seven]

Iran and ISIS have the same objectives in regards to who their enemies are. We will see them fighting in the same team before we see them fight themselves IMO.

Why would you say that? Muslim factions fight far more among themselves than they fight others. And have done so for centuries.

 

[ZoSo]

Sometimes countries can be held responsible. Large scale terrorist funding from private individuals can be attributed to Saudi Arabia if they consistently fail to do anything about it.

Don't know if that's the case though, I have zero knowledge about how ISIS or other organizations are funded. And I doubt Juliano13 has more, he's assuming way too much.

In the end all of this is as simple as it is complex. The only one responsible for all this is the terrorist who has decided to carry out this attack. You have to admit that he may have been motivated by what the US (let's just say it like it is, not the west, not the UN, no, the US) did to Iraq and it's obvious huge mistakes were made there. The situation of muslims in Europe could probably be improved as well. In the end though he decides to act on his motivations, whatever they may be, and he's the only one who should be held accountable.

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And the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one....

 

[Maddy]

Iran and ISIS have the same objectives in regards to who their enemies are. We will see them fighting in the same team before we see them fight themselves IMO.

 

[Seven]

And the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one....

Of course. They are responsible for their actions. But like I said the west, and the US in particular (!), needs to do some soul searching too.

 

[Seven]

Americano..

 

[Hust]

The Hillary video only shows what a hypocrite she is

 

[Juliano13]

The Hillary video only shows what a hypocrite she is

Same as her husband.

 

[ZoSo]

Of course. They are responsible for their actions. But like I said the west, and the US in particular (!), needs to do some soul searching too.

If you are saying the person who did the attack is responsible, how or why will they ever stop in the future? By soul searching, do you mean repay the consequences from the actions of leaders with the blood of civilians?