Nelson Mandela (12 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

Sadly, Mandela in the end liberated the south african people, but showed how horrible africans can be once given power and wealth.

(not mandela himself, but all those that rose with him)

Wow.



I was gonna reply objectively to every one of your arguments, but this is just straight up racism. There is no way to argue against that.

 

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[Zacheryah]

Its a known issue in africa. But europe is coward. Instead of telling them straight up they are corrupt, like De Gucht did, they pamper them and allow their corruption to continue.

Congo and South africa beeign sad examples. But even beyond that. Do you have any idea about the amount of slaughter goes on, thanks to local warlords ?
Its just insane.
And i suppose you didnt forget the hutu's and tutsi's ?

 

[Osman]

 

[Zacheryah]

Yeah, you look trough those easy pink glasses. Nothing is wrong, everything are rainbows

 

[Linebreak]

Its a known issue in africa. But europe is coward. Instead of telling them straight up they are corrupt, like De Gucht did, they pamper them and allow their corruption to continue.

Congo and South africa beeign sad examples. But even beyond that. Do you have any idea about the amount of slaughter goes on, thanks to local warlords ?
Its just insane.
And i suppose you didnt forget the hutu's and tutsi's ?

Living under a rock - you think that the Europeans had nothing to do with the misery these countries found themselves in, or do you follow the "upright white man world liberation" narrative?

 

[Zacheryah]

Europe exploited africa, when the revolutions came, they went back

The problem is, that the leaders of these revolutions are corrupted by wealth and power. Congo is one of the worst examples of that

 

[Linebreak]

Europe exploited africa, when the revolutions came, they went back

The problem is, that the leaders of these revolutions are corrupted by wealth and power. Congo is one of the worst examples of that

You really think it's that simple? "They went back"

They went back physically, but in practice, they still hold and control much of Africa's wealth, and that's a major problem.

The agitation the Europeans created in Africa could take centuries to stabalise. It's what Europeans did in most parts of the world they left behind.

 

[Nzoric]

Living under a rock - you think that the Europeans had nothing to do with the misery these countries found themselves in, or do you follow the "upright white man world liberation" narrative?

White mans burden, baby.

 

[ALC]

idk, can't really blame everything that's happening in africa on the white man. just because europeans were there to take advantage of a broken system and people that were happy to sell their own to slavery doesn't mean it's their fault africa is the way it is.

the continent has a lot of potential but somehow they haven't been able to realize a fraction of it. idk if it's the heat or what but i know for sure europeans aren't to blame. that just sounds like an excuse to me.

 

[Linebreak]

idk, can't really blame everything that's happening in africa on the white man. just because europeans were there to take advantage of a broken system and people that were happy to sell their own to slavery doesn't mean it's their fault africa is the way it is.

the continent has a lot of potential but somehow they haven't been able to realize a fraction of it. idk if it's the heat or what but i know for sure europeans aren't to blame. that just sounds like an excuse to me.

Of course all can't be blamed on the white man, but at the same time, people were not sold wholesale in slavery, they were taken in large numbers too.

Take the African Americans in the US for example. Their families were torn apart, they were forced to live in conditions that were worse than what animals had to endure, and many of them turned to alcohol and eventually drugs. "White man" had a significant role to play in destroying these people.

White man saw, and some still see, themselves as the most "Evolved" human beings, and hence it was their right to do as they please with the rest of the world.

 

[ALC]

do you know africans are still used for slavery in actual africa in much bigger numbers than they used to be in america?

but then you could just say it's because of blood diamonds. it's easy to shift blame.

 

[swag]

Still don't change the fact that the ANC is made up of many corrupt and inept cronies.

 

[Linebreak]

"What caused Africa’s underdevelopment is a complex issue. Europe’s past (and present) exploitation of Africa played a significant part. Before the Europeans arrived in Africa, Africa had vibrant economic, social and political structures. These were severely disrupted by Europeans to create wealth for themselves.

European dominance over most of Africa through the transatlantic slave trade lasted 440 years, from 1444 to 1885."

- - - Updated - - -

Still don't change the fact that the ANC is made up of many corrupt and inept cronies.

Agreed - but Europeans cannot completely absolve themselves of all responsibility. even till now, where do you think many of these corrupt governments and militias buy their weaponry from?

 

[swag]

Assigning blame is fun. But it doesn't move anyone forward to keep looking out the back of your head.

 

[Linebreak]

Assigning blame is fun. But it doesn't move anyone forward to keep looking out the back of your head.

Credit and blame where they're due

I cannot go into a room, randomly punch someone in the back of the head, and then say "well now that you're injured, bad luck, next time watch your back" - I have to be held accountable for what I did.

 

[swag]

Accountable how?

I mean, did we ever hold Genghis Khan accountable?

History is littered with the victor and the defeated and the legacy they leave. It's not specific to Africa. Which isn't to say I am wholly against things like affirmative action in the US. But no matter what anyone does, you're never going to undo the past.

Generations of people get f'ed over by the rest of humanity and there's really no recourse in nearly all cases. Neanderthals being a prime example. Which leaves a little of debate to a cute thought exercise, but nothing that provides much more value than a contest over victimhood.

 

[Linebreak]

Accountable how?

I mean, did we ever hold Genghis Khan accountable?

History is littered with the victor and the defeated and the legacy they leave. It's not specific to Africa. Which isn't to say I am wholly against things like affirmative action in the US. But no matter what anyone does, you're never going to undo the past.

Generations of people get f'ed over by the rest of humanity and there's really no recourse in nearly all cases. Which leaves a little of debate to a cute thought exercise, but nothing that provides much more value than a contest over victimhood.

Just like Germany still pays for what they did to the unfortunate Jews, countries like Spain, Portugal, France, England and Italy can do the same for their misadventures in Africa.

It doesn't undo the past, but assists those places to recover. Even a simple open apology is a start, something that heals their wounds. It's like Europe keeps pressuring places like Turkey to admit to Genocide against the Armenians.

Only Africans can help Africans lift themselves out of the hole that they're in, but things like these help.

Also, attitudes like Zachs, which is no different than saying "that homeless guy should get a job, that silly bumb", are not helpful either.

Racist white supremacist attitudes like Zachs are effectively saying, if you read between the lines, that "see these violent savages can't rule for themselves, we should run their countries for them"

 

[swag]

Just like Germany still pays for what they did to the unfortunate Jews, countries like Spain, Portugal, France, England and Italy can do the same for their misadventures in Africa.

So fairness is in holding great grandchildren accountable for the actions of their great grandparents?

It's a warm and fuzzy idea, but it's not exactly holding someone accountable as much as leaving some innocent lout with the bag -- generations before they even knew it could blow up in their faces.

 

[Linebreak]

So fairness is in holding great grandchildren accountable for the actions of their great grandparents?

It's a warm and fuzzy idea, but it's not exactly holding someone accountable as much as leaving some innocent lout with the bag -- generations before they even knew it could blow up in their faces.

Yes, their grandchildren live in such wealth, partially due to the way in which thier ancestors exploited places like Africa.

 

[swag]

Then what to do of the half-breeds that have happened in the generations since? There are a lot of people who have part African, part European lineage through mixed parents or grandparents of the lot. Do they pay half, and then pay that to themselves?

The whole thing is a can of worms.