My Italy (1 Viewer)

IncuboRossonero · Jan 15, 2004

This is one of the rare occasion I will answer you because you don't seem to get it:

Bottom line: You stated I was a fascist (if you know what it means esp. for Italians: what kind of an insult and generalization that is). Shall I dare ask you to foresee what kind of chaos would ensue here if I called someone a Nazi?

Good bye

Martin · Jan 15, 2004

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++
Thats the point it makes no difference at all which is why I want the best players and not your favorite players. At the end of the day I don't give a damn who I see...if Vieri is scoring and Inzaghi is not I'll be the first one to say tie Pippo up to the bench. If Del Piero is on fire....I'll be the first one chanting Alex Alex. That said I'm not willing to risk putting untested players on the team. I'm not willing to put players on the starting eleven without PROVING they can play. That said you want to play: EARN IT.
At the end of the day most here are Italian fans because of Juve....so its only natural they see Juve players in blue uniforms. No offense but I have said this before...many here see things different than people who are in or part of the Motherland (Italy). We see Italy first and not players. Which is why I want the best team to be fielded and not the "trendy" team. At the end of the day Italy loses and most here will shrug .... for Italians our feeling, our way of looking at this team and our emotions for this team is not the same no matter how much some of you will convince me. Its natural...patriotism and origin can NEVER be overtaken by admiration or support.

So we have a different view on things, what's wrong with that? I said that my team is one team that I woud have faith in and that's all. I happen to know Juve players better than others but where's the shock in that? Maresca is unproven yes, he's also one of the top rated young Italian players. So I have 4 Juve players, yeah what an outrage :rolleyes:

Zlatan · Jan 15, 2004

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

This is one of the rare occasion I will answer you because you don't seem to get it:

Bottom line: You stated I was a fascist (if you know what it means esp. for Italians: what kind of an insult and generalization that is). Shall I dare ask you to foresee what kind of chaos would ensue here if I called someone a Nazi?

Good bye

Where exactly did he call you a fascist?

Layce Erayce · Jan 15, 2004

wow i guess giving you the benefit of the doubt doesnt amount to much on your part does it?

incubo when someone tells a non-italian fan that a "real" italian would have support milan in an international competition what am i supposed to assume?

that you think im italian?

Respaul · Jan 15, 2004

I find it somewhat insulting that I keep hearing these allegations of Bias.
Why do youthink you are the only one who is unbiased...
Others do pick purely from there wish to see the best team as well
Jus cause someones a juve fan doesnt mean they are biased when it comes to national selections

The idea that only italians are unbiased when it comes to the Italian national is ludicrous to say the least.
plus you also forget that most have their own national that they are every bit as passionate about as you are yours.
From that view point as a diehard supporter of my national and my country in all aspects, I have nothing but respect for all national teams and as such ,if picking a team fot another country would take exactly the same care and consideration as i would my own.
Especially as if my team were to win a comp, it would in my mind at least take a little away from the joy if we hadnt played the best our opposition had to offer.
I dont like to see players missing or injured, I want my national to play against the best there is, no less

Dont tar everyone with the same brush... maybe some jus think different to you, and as such pick different players.. that doesnt mean they are biased or have any less passion/enthusiasm than you

As for my team, though according to you we all see it through black and white glasses , its strange I see more red and black in my choices.

Strange you havent offered up your own choice, shared your infinite wisdom with us.

Personally I think my team would slaughter that of dennis (I use that as its something you liked) for a simple reason... Like all teams italian managers come up with over the years it has absolutely no balls what so ever.

Time after time we see italian national sides that on paper are equal to or better than every other team, yet they fail to perform... Why?

I'll tell you... No Balls... Its as simple as that
All your managers are scared to use your strongpoints, they all want that 1-0 win

Time after time you show you have a great back line and probably the best attacking line in world football, but no one has the balls to use it

Jus look at trap... fvck me... The Eunach of all Eunachs

You wanna win the world cup?
again Ill tell you how... 2 words...

Serse Cosmi

Its a bit of a rant and prob doesnt make sense , but there you go!

Respaul · Jan 15, 2004

Yes he did, it should have been dealt with and he should have apologised, but please get over it

Here it goes again... Fascist means exactly the same where ever your from... Anyone who understands the word from where ever they may come would feel the same about it...

Hopefully you would be dealt with in the correct and reasonable mannor

Ps. Nick, sorry if i seem to be having a pop at you in these last couple of posts but with all respect to yourself, you are bordering on lunacy here mate

KB824 · Jan 15, 2004

The fact that the whole ideology was created by an Italian (Mussolini) in the first place tends to make us embarrassed and ashamed more than anything, Paul.

Not a part of history that most of us of Italian origin are very proud of.:down:

Thankfully, (I guess) people think "Italian" with me where I live and assume that I have a brother named Tony, a girlfriend named Maria, leave the top 5 buttons of my silk shirt unbuttoned, wear 7 gold chains, each with a Cross or St. Joseph charms, drive a Chevy IROC-Z, and think that "bada-bing" is actually in the Italian dictionary.

Better than being called a fascist, I suppose.

Besides, the perfect game, according to most Italians, is a 0-0 draw.

I would want to see a coach from the "New Guard" be appointed in Trap's place. Maybe a Del Neri, or Cosmi, like you had stated. I think that if Lippi got the job, it would be more of a lateral move, than anything.

IncuboRossonero · Jan 15, 2004

I agree that he is our future. But wouldn't you say that Cassano is much more tested? Why not insert Cassano then? Many reasons. Why not Bonera? Why not Abate? Why not Donati? Personally I wouldn't risk it. Maybe you are more of a risk taker. Whatever the case may be I think its quite flawed saying these are the BEST for Italy. That was my point. The outrage is not the Juve players...I wish Nedved were Italian for that matter so he could play for us. There is no outrage but inserting Maresca is a result of being a Juve fan. Milanista's push for Pirlo. Interisti want Zanetti. etc..etc..etc.

IncuboRossonero · Jan 15, 2004

Paul...that second statement is simply not true and you know that. Calling a German a Nazi..an Italian a fascist and an Arab a terrorist has different connotations that calling an Indonesian a Nazi or a Finnish person a terrorist. In my opinion calling an Italian a fascist is pushing buttons in a very terrible manner. It was wrong. If I didn't get over it I would have reported it and made a big deal when nothing was done. I didn't. I simply choose to ignore the person who made the comment because IMO they were:
a) Unaware of what an insult it was.
b) not yet grown up to realize what kind of offense an Italian could take to that comment.

I always border on lunacy...whats different these days

IncuboRossonero · Jan 15, 2004

Sergio...Cosmi is a bit of a loon. Del Neri sounds too much like Del Piero and one Del _____ is enough

once upon a time I would have liked to have seen Guidolin on the NT but he has lost his edge.
Ranieri could be a prospect.

The Pado · Jan 15, 2004

Hey Sergio, do you know why Italians wear gold chains?

So they know where to stop shaving.

KB824 · Jan 15, 2004

What about Mancini?

He seems to be doing the best he can with a REALLY crappy situation. Or Zaccheroni, for that matter.

I don't know, man. I just want a fresh, new approach to the way the NT plays.

I also wish that Trap would play more of the younger players in some of these Friendlies.

Euro 2004 might be the last go-around for DP, Vieri, Inzaghi,Cannavaro, et al.

Martin · Jan 15, 2004

Well I said Maresca because he's better defensively, had it not been for that consideration, I would have picked Pirlo, a player I really believe in. I feel for Pirlo, I think he deserves to be the focal point of a team and he hasn't been given that chance. I really think he could excel as a trequartista, especially because he's not dedicated enough and not physical enough for a defensive role. It's a shame for Pirlo that Kaka came along, cause now he certainly has no shot at that place. And if I were to choose players purely based on my favorites, there is no way Totti would start ahead of Pirlo behind the front two.

But back to the topic at hand. About Maresca, it may not be so, I realize that, I haven't seen much of Maresca so I go by what I hear mostly, that's all I can feed off. People often say he's a two way player and I think that's very useful. The case for Maresca is based on the premise that there aren't that many players better suited. You have Zanetti, Perotta, Ambrosini, Di Biagio, hell even Albertini but these players have had their chance and they don't convince me, I think maybe Maresca could do just as well. Or better.

Cassano, yes, I like this guy. He seems to be coming into his own playing for Roma this season and the past, but given his lack of maturity, his young age and the fact that Italy does have an incredible goal scoring machine like Vieri, I decided to bench him. You can question how good Vieri is anymore but I do think he has it in him to deliver, he usually plays up to standard in big tournaments. With both Totti and Del Piero, Vieri has the perfect players around him to hit the net, I just will not place the bargain on Del Piero to score, scoring under pressure is not his thing and with a player of Vieri's class, I think Alex could do very well creating chances and getting involved that way, someone has to bear the burden of scoring and noone does it better than Bobo. They could make each other better. On the other hand, if Vieri is struggling, I think Cassano has the confidence and the talent to come off the bench, quickly adapt to the game and make a difference. So I'm not discounting Cassano..

Bonera I have heard mostly negative things about the last couple of years. Abate is new to me while Donati, where is he anyway?

IncuboRossonero · Jan 15, 2004

far from it. I have proven that time and time again. But not many Milanista's will admit that Del Piero has anything left. I have always maintainted that a Del Piero on fire is second to none. Unfortunately due to injury and his personality we have only seen sparks of the fire.

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
The idea that only italians are unbiased when it comes to the Italian national is ludicrous to say the least.
plus you also forget that most have their own national that they are every bit as passionate about as you are yours.
From that view point as a diehard supporter of my national and my country in all aspects, I have nothing but respect for all national teams and as such ,if picking a team fot another country would take exactly the same care and consideration as i would my own.
Especially as if my team were to win a comp, it would in my mind at least take a little away from the joy if we hadnt played the best our opposition had to offer.
I dont like to see players missing or injured, I want my national to play against the best there is, no less

You mis-read my post if thats what you thought. Just don't tell me that the best eleven would include Maresca at this point in his career and then tell me your thinking about ITALY and not Juve. that was my only comment. it made me laugh is all. I guess I stretched it and it became something else.

Its only natural Paul..we are the ....

Better team :stuckup:

Too early..but at this point all I would say is..

make room for Costacurta or Ferrara.

Respaul · Jan 16, 2004

Nick, If it was up to me, Maresca wouldnt be allowed to sit in the stands at the delle alpi, let alone wear the white & black and definately never the blue

Most over-rated player in italy as far as im concerned

IncuboRossonero · Jan 16, 2004

Paul: I see what you mean BUT there are special cases in Italy. Bonera is one: over rated. Legro is another...sorry WAS another I think Juve fans realized he wasn't the option to buying Cannavaro like Moggi suggested.
A new defender in Italy right now has the toughest job in Italy or rather shoes to fill. We have an era of Nesta, Cannavaro and Maldini passing...Baresi, Scirea before them and ageing players such as Costacurta and Ferrara playing like they are 25. Bonera, Coco and Oddo: they were labeled "the next ones" before they played a Serie A match. Its only normal they won't continue the tradition of our D.
The Maresca situation is odd. Talented .. YES. The next "phenom" as they compare him to Kaka..give me a break. Though I will admit he is actually better than I thought but when I saw him as first team starter for the National I actually yelled at the screen.

ALEX: The Pirlo situation. I agree 110% as he has the natural abilities of a fantasista. However, because of Rui Costa, Rivaldo and now Kaka he compromised and created a role for himself. We only see flashes of his brilliance which are always offensive. Still I agree with Carlo's theory ... his offense makes up for his defense and he is a player that MUST play. The National Team...its a shame if Trap doesn't bring him but then again Trap has a weird mind .. he benches Inzaghi for 5 months..Inzaghi plays..scores 5 goals and Trap says "I told you so!"

He puts DP in (vs. Mexico) as a sub..DP scores and Trap. says "I always SAID he needs to play"

Martin · Jan 16, 2004

Well no, I just don't think it's right for him to play there, he should be given the opportunity his talent deserves. Because for those who want to see great players, they have to learn and evolve before they reach those dizzy heights, Pirlo has been so good for so long that it's just sad to realize he's compromising in order to play a role that he should be picked for. It's hard with all the competition, maybe he doesn't have that quality that will inspire the faith of his coaches but however you look at it, it's too bad. At Inter, he was criminally ignored and apparently now they need a playmaker?

denco · Jan 16, 2004

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++

Ah Paul why do you think your team would slaughter mine? I picked the team based on the country and from my years of experience of watching Italian teams, I have never seen them apart from briefly with Vicini in charge in 1988 euros and 90 wc, attack for 90 mins. If we were talking about England, Holland, France or Spain then my team selection would be different but I am talking about a country that winning is all that matters so much tha taking risks is utterly unnecessary to them
How do u explain being totally superior to Ecuador in the first half and doing nothing in the second after going 2 goals up or in wc 94 playing good football for 20 mins against Bulgaria and thats it.

In all the matches I saw in euro 2000, Italy just went in front and defended in all the matche s and performed disgracefully against Holland but won on pens

I cannot personnaly say if its just the managers that make them play that way but I think it would be hard to change a habit of a life time

Look at Capello , he won the league with Roma by playing 3 strikers playing gr8 football and what does he do the next season, he reverts to 4-4-2 the next season and they became more dour
Same when he was at Milan, I mean there was a time he won the league by scoring 38 goals in 34 matches

You seem to have a lot of faith in Cosmi, personally I am not sure about him, I d rather go with a recent ex international

As for Pirlo, I don't know I find him a tad overrated as a fantatista and I think the role he plays for milan just in front of the back 4 is best suited for him as he is too physically weak to function behind the front 2 and he is not dynamic enough, sure his range of passing is good but he can easily be brushed aside and I ahve to disagree with you Martin there, he is in no way at all in Totti's league behind the front 2

P.s the reason I picked Perota over Gatusso is simply because he is a better passer of the ball and has better technique and he also works just as hard as Gatusso but playing for Chievo does not highlight that as much as it does playing for Milan where you are seen as an artisan amongst artists so its easier to notice you

Zlatan · Jan 16, 2004

Actually, my team would absolutley kill and slaughter both of yours

gray · Jan 16, 2004

but your second formation sux, remember? :LOL:

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