'Murica! (382 Viewers)

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,774
I asked specifically about the trade. What are his demands, particularly from Canada?
Zelensky didn’t really have a choice. He didn’t kick himself out of the White House either.
Negotiate better trade and security deals for the USA, the only country he should care about (which is unfortunately not entirely true). But he fact is people keep saying he's dumb and he's going to break this and break that, but his track record says otherwise. He gets shit done and he knows how to get his way.
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,658
Negotiate better trade and security deals for the USA, the only country he should care about (which is unfortunately not entirely true). But he fact is people keep saying he's dumb and he's going to break this and break that, but his track record says otherwise. He gets shit done and he knows how to get his way.
Aren’t we under his previous trade agreement?
 

Ronn

Mes Que Un Club
May 3, 2012
20,854
Negotiate better trade and security deals for the USA, the only country he should care about (which is unfortunately not entirely true). But he fact is people keep saying he's dumb and he's going to break this and break that, but his track record says otherwise. He gets shit done and he knows how to get his way.
That’s not what he’s saying though. He wants Canada to stop the migrants and fentanyl. Why, unlike 2016 and NAFTA, he doesn’t make his demands known? When negotiating USMCA he put a 5% tariff on Mexican imports. This seems to be an entirely different thing than just renegotiating trade agreements.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,774
That’s not what he’s saying though. He wants Canada to stop the migrants and fentanyl. Why, unlike 2016 and NAFTA, he doesn’t make his demands known? When negotiating USMCA he put a 5% tariff on Mexican imports. This seems to be an entirely different thing than just renegotiating trade agreements.
How do you interpret it? You are much more in tune with politics so curious to know your take on this, obviously besides trump's petulant man child who doesn't know what he's doing :D
 

kappa96

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2018
7,469
If you still believe that Russia started this conflict in 2022, then you are either corrupt, ignorant, or brainwashed.

If you don’t know who Victoria Nuland is, or what she was doing in Ukraine in 2014, then you have no idea what’s going on.

The Deep State started this war. It was the Obama CIA/State Dept that funded Nazi militant groups to start a civil war in Ukraine, and initiated regime change to a CIA/State Dept puppet, Yatseniuk.

This was all revealed in the leaked phone call between State Dept diplomats and Deep State agents, Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt.

After the Maidan coup in February 2014, the US CIA/State Dept owned Ukraine via proxy, and the CIA began using Ukraine as a giant offshore playground for criminal racketeering and money laundering. Ukraine became one giant CIA base, directly on Russia’s border.

Then the US/NATO began building up Ukraine’s army for the sole purpose of one day fighting Russia. The US/NATO began supplying Ukraine with weapons, equipment, missiles, training, intelligence, etc.

Covert elements within the US government, along with their European partners in NATO, used espionage to overthrow and take control of the nation of Ukraine, then built a massive standing army on Russia’s border, then tried to bring Ukraine into NATO, and thus start WW3.

If you are still buying the official MSM narrative about this conflict, you should not be engaged in conversations.


Everything the MSM told you about Ukraine/Russia has been a lie, and in many cases, the inverse of the truth.

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The most retarded thing I read on the internet in a long time.
Pure Russian propaganda easily debunked and easy to understand if you have an iq of at least 60-70.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,307
Negotiate better trade and security deals for the USA, the only country he should care about (which is unfortunately not entirely true). But he fact is people keep saying he's dumb and he's going to break this and break that, but his track record says otherwise. He gets shit done and he knows how to get his way.
His track record is awful? If he didn't do anything his entite life he'd have far more money.

The one thing you sort of have to give him credit for is that he managed to become president twice. But in hindsight you have to wonder how much he was helped by Russia to get there.

As for better trade deals for the US, that is not his goal. He wants to impoverish the US population then buy goods and services low and sell them high down the road. People keep saying they want Trump and President Musk to run the US like a business and that's what they do. But a country is not a business. A business exists to make profit. A country exists for the greater good of its citizens. Their end goals should be very different.
 

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
33,523
What was good yesterday is not necessarily good today, and if you have leverage to get a better deal you always go for it
you don't bully your allies though. that weakens your credibility and the willingness to negotiate. taxes and tariffs can be overturned overnight, even if it makes you look like an undecisive idiot. but for example after ontario already cancelled starlink's contract, good luck getting them at the table once again. you also don't interfere with elections, call a president "governor", spread bullshit about fentanyl to push a false agenda, etc. it's unfair and damaging. trump/vance/musk are doing much more damage to the usa-canada, usa-eu relationship than any administration in my lifetime

this while he's rolling over to russia even before the negotiations start. it just doesn't make any sense - unless you accept that they are instructed by the kremlin. because from that pov, everything clicks, from alienating close and historic allies to not saying a single negative thing about russia during their 6 weeks in charge

nobody in the west will trust trump, vance or musk for the next 4 years. was it worth it? is trump really a master negotiator?

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...But a country is not a business. A business exists to make profit. A country exists for the greater good of its citizens. Their end goals should be very different.
exactly
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
53,891
they are instructed by the kremlin.
The first time you said it, I took it as a joke. The next 100 times it made you sound like those crazy conspiracy theorists.
Now it's the only thing that makes any sense, as crazy and senseless as it is :lol:

I am still hoping for a more logical explanation, for a masterplan, an endgame, when we'll say: "ohhh, so this is why!". I don't think that it will happen, though.
 

icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
36,316
Imposing tariffs, then getting a retaliatory tariff, promising retaliatory tariff to the retaliation and then your commerce secretary coming out and saying the original tariff may be rolled back in response to the markets tanking are all signs of genius business dealings.
 

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