'Murica! (374 Viewers)

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
Conspiracy theory time, what if nothing is being done regarding school shootings in order to have people splurge for private schooling instead of public? Less tax money going to schools, more going to corrupt govt?
Interesting idea. The whole school choice movement is arguably a veiled effort to defund education. So there could be a basis.

But a gun sales angle would be easily more likely. Whether enterprise software or guns, FUD always sells.

A conspiracy would imply that political resistance to reacting to school shootings. And let's be clear, it's not just reaction to guns but to any effort to lift a finger to pretend there is any problem. The fact that there aren't congressional hearings on how to prevent school shootings is the biggest red flag for me.

There have been two major congressional hearings on antisemitism on college campuses in just the past year. But school shootings? Nada. Despite 45 school shootings in the US thus far this year.

How many Jewish students have been murdered on college campuses again? Meanwhile, children are going through lockdown drills. I know recent graduates of Cal Poly University who were relieved to graduate because they spent four years dreading the inevitability of being caught it a campus shooting there.

Clearly people do not want to change the status quo any and ultimately find the death and chaos rate an acceptable price for keeping it.

More likely it could be the perception that even holding a congressional hearing on school shootings would open the door to examining the role gun laws and the non-enforcement of gun laws play, and a lot of politicians want to avoid getting close to that third rail.

What's weird is this new parental arrest approach that's emerging. Desperation is so bad, this is the version of arresting Al Capone on tax evasion.

Companies selling guns seems an easier conspirary though.

Also, while we have almost no private schooling in Belgium, it is in fact on the rise in Europe too. So you don't need school shootings it would seem.
There is a milder echo of a copycat factor in Europe. Though extreme examples like Anders Breivik were more politically motivated than just despairing teens seeking attention.

When the nuts move to private schools, I guess the shootings will follow.
There are nuts in private schools. Do not kid yourself. I am a little surprised they don't occur more often than they do, however.

Even Dick Cheney is for voting for Kamala.

Sure, he killed a million Iraqis but that's not good for the Christo-fascists.
Kamala gonna lock up the war criminal vote?
 
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s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
33,524
the author kinda lost me right at the first sentence. "if you don't own a rifle, your opinion is mostly irrelevant". it's in the ballpark of "men should not get a say in abortion related matters" or "you can criticize mozart when and if you are able to write better music". at least he's not fucking around, i give him that

will read the whole stuff later. not a welcoming or open minded start though
 

icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
36,318
the author kinda lost me right at the first sentence. "if you don't own a rifle, your opinion is mostly irrelevant". it's in the ballpark of "men should not get a say in abortion related matters" or "you can criticize mozart when and if you are able to write better music". at least he's not fucking around, i give him that

will read the whole stuff later. not a welcoming or open minded start though
Does not get any better I’m afraid
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,775
the author kinda lost me right at the first sentence. "if you don't own a rifle, your opinion is mostly irrelevant". it's in the ballpark of "men should not get a say in abortion related matters" or "you can criticize mozart when and if you are able to write better music". at least he's not fucking around, i give him that

will read the whole stuff later. not a welcoming or open minded start though
IMO he makes a compelling argument, i don't expect most to agree with it, but it articulates pretty well the way muricans views guns and their necessity in society.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
115,912
Does not get any better I’m afraid
He wants society to “lock up the crazies”, whatever that means, while at the same time ensuring everyone has a gun. I guess he thinks we can just Minority Report everyone or have predictive analytics or AI to predict who is going to lose their shit one day? That sounds like a recipe for success if you ask me.

This guy writes like he wants to shoot up the capitol building.
 

abstract

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,928
Majority of the GOP voters believe the last election was stolen from Trump ? Why is nobody using guns to protect democracy ? Why are they not shooting elected officials ? How many ppl are shoot in US by cops compared to any other developed country ?
Should cops in US be shoot on the spot if they violate someone's rights ?
Do you know that the US government has drones ? A kid who got a job as a drone operator because he is good at Fortnite would blow 1000 roided up militia guys in one second.
Why do these guys never talk in specifics when it comes to the 2nd amendment ?
Should civilians in US be allowed to have Nuclear weapons ?
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,775
Majority of the GOP voters believe the last election was stolen from Trump ? Why is nobody using guns to protect democracy ? Why are they not shooting elected officials ? How many ppl are shoot in US by cops compared to any other developed country ?
Should cops in US be shoot on the spot if they violate someone's rights ?
Do you know that the US government has drones ? A kid who got a job as a drone operator because he is good at Fortnite would blow 1000 roided up militia guys in one second.
Why do these guys never talk in specifics when it comes to the 2nd amendment ?
Should civilians in US be allowed to have Nuclear weapons ?

Yes and you are in a shit situation.
 

abstract

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,928
Yes and you are in a shit situation.
Yes to what ?
Owning a semi-auto firearm in a state like the US that has militarized police, and the most powerful military in the world is a good as owning a spoon.
The only purpose of owning an AR-15 style rifle is to have fun or for committing mass shootings. You'll be never allowed to own anything more than that.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
115,912
Majority of the GOP voters believe the last election was stolen from Trump ? Why is nobody using guns to protect democracy ? Why are they not shooting elected officials ? How many ppl are shoot in US by cops compared to any other developed country ?
Should cops in US be shoot on the spot if they violate someone's rights ?
Do you know that the US government has drones ? A kid who got a job as a drone operator because he is good at Fortnite would blow 1000 roided up militia guys in one second.
Why do these guys never talk in specifics when it comes to the 2nd amendment ?
Should civilians in US be allowed to have Nuclear weapons ?
It’s because some of these people live their entire lives just waiting for the day they can finally use their weapon in the real world against a real person. Just a very odd way to live life.
 

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
33,524
IMO he makes a compelling argument, i don't expect most to agree with it, but it articulates pretty well the way muricans views guns and their necessity in society.
according to that guy i'm an outsider so i should stfu, so it's really an uneducated opinion on the matter. imo the whole murican gun issue is not about the what but about the how. you need guns, i get it. it's fine.

but how can minors access those guns on a regular basis? how guns aren't locked up in a safe storage when you don't carry them? how can basically anyone get access to a gun, without any psych eval (even though psychologists don't own crystal balls either, so it wouldn't be a perfect control either)? how can any random citizen get a gun without any related education, practice and certificate? how can a father buy his son a gun, when the son already threatened to shoot up his school, and it was brought to his attention by authorities? and again, how can minors even touch a gun outside of some related sports activity? are parents this fucking stupid (apparently yes), and if they are, why the whole country wouldn't impose safe storage requirements? (as far as i remember it's on the state and there's no universally accepted policy)

etc

in many countries citizens can have guns. and murica is probably the only 1st world country that has a serious gun issue. the problem isn't the guns, it's the regulations and culture which clearly have insane consequences
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,775
This reads like someone wants the wild wild west back. Why did it change? Why did Americans move on from that?
Move on from what? A big percentage of Americans own guns

according to that guy i'm an outsider so i should stfu, so it's really an uneducated opinion on the matter. imo the whole murican gun issue is not about the what but about the how. you need guns, i get it. it's fine.

but how can minors access those guns on a regular basis? how guns aren't locked up in a safe storage when you don't carry them? how can basically anyone get access to a gun, without any psych eval (even though psychologists don't own crystal balls either, so it wouldn't be a perfect control either)? how can any random citizen get a gun without any related education, practice and certificate? how can a father buy his son a gun, when the son already threatened to shoot up his school, and it was brought to his attention by authorities? and again, how can minors even touch a gun outside of some related sports activity? are parents this fucking stupid (apparently yes), and if they are, why the whole country wouldn't impose safe storage requirements? (as far as i remember it's on the state and there's no universally accepted policy)

etc

in many countries citizens can have guns. and murica is probably the only 1st world country that has a serious gun issue. the problem isn't the guns, it's the regulations and culture which clearly have insane consequences
All the points you made relating to this latest incident are valid. I also think some subcultures are definitely problematic when it comes to gun violence in the states.
 
Jun 16, 2020
12,435
in many countries citizens can have guns. and murica is probably the only 1st world country that has a serious gun issue. the problem isn't the guns, it's the regulations and culture which clearly have insane consequences
I live in a country where there are more bycicles than people.

The USA is a country with more guns than people.

That’s insane if you think about it. Of course that goes wrong
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,312
I understand his point.

But the idea of a functioning democracy is that there is someone who has brute force: the government. And the government, that's us. We don't need guns, because we have capable people using guns for us, if need be.

And also, if the lunatic next door doesn't have a gun in the first place, I don't need a gun to protect myself from him.

I understand this is a fascination Americans have. And it's not like the theory at least makes zero sense. But pretty much all Western European countries are a perfect counterexample.

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