Radical left and right are equally bad. Two sides of the same coin, only difference is they justify their intolerance and hate with different excuses.
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'Murica! (292 Viewers)
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Radical left and right are equally bad. Two sides of the same coin, only difference is they justify their intolerance and hate with different excuses.
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Always my man
You're right about the demographic shift. However, I don't believe that it will have as large of an impact on the overall culture of this country as you think. Not too long ago I'd be considered part of the "outside" culture too, and now here I am, a product of illegal immigration from Italy where my family is largely gun toting, hard working conservatives that don't speak Italian at all. They'd fit right in with any other group of conservative white people from their respective age range, just with a much better taste for food
. Give it 3 generations max and any immigrant family will be fully "Americanized" while keeping bits and pieces of their old culture. It happens every single time. Even now, I already know Arabs that can't read Arabic (that's how it starts) and know nothing about their home country, or valley girl Chinese that can't understand Mandarin at all. If they do it, anyone will. The assimilation factor is very real in this country except for in very specific situations, such as ultra orthodox Jews. Now yes, the numbers are far greater, but it's not as if these are 60 million newcomers to this country. These are already established American populations. You have Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio for example, both white latinos that aren't exactly attempting to pull the country to the left.
I will concede that I believe this country will be shifting towards the left as time goes on, but I put that down to economic and social failings much more than I do any other factor to be quite honest. I will also concede that there are quite a few people that advocate for straight up communism, but just as you had support for Nazism during WWII, I don't think the country will move to there, but rather like any other third party it will serve to pull the mainstream in that general direction of the spectrum. For example, I do believe that eventually some sort of universal medicare system will end up being put in place, but I don't think we're going to be nationalization of other major industries.
This is actually something that I was thinking about recently. All of these protesters and movements of recent years, for whatever reason they all lack a centralized leadership or figurehead to really galvanize an electorate. The closest that I can say that we've had was maybe Bernie Sanders I guess. Not only did he not win though, but many of the types that would advocate for the changes that people seem to fear in this thread didn't even like him! He wasn't extreme enough for them. He didn't call for nationalization of industries or reparations or whatever flavor of the month proposal was trending on social media, so they wouldn't even vote for him. I can try to find examples if you'd like, but those are some old posts by now so I can't make any promises. Even now with Biden, a large portion of these progressive "Democrats" won't go near him because even though they'd have a far greater chance of getting sympathetic proposals passed by a moderate Democrat with the right amount of pressure, they're not going to vote for him because he doesn't perfectly fit their ideal candidate standards. Hell, Obama even called it out a while ago.
Sorry if this isn't as coherent as it should be, I'm tired
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Unlike Berlusconi media...? 
Everyone has an agenda, including those Twitter posts you would be considering "news"
You're right about the demographic shift. However, I don't believe that it will have as large of an impact on the overall culture of this country as you think. Not too long ago I'd be considered part of the "outside" culture too, and now here I am, a product of illegal immigration from Italy where my family is largely gun toting, hard working conservatives that don't speak Italian at all. They'd fit right in with any other group of conservative white people from their respective age range, just with a much better taste for food
. Give it 3 generations max and any immigrant family will be fully "Americanized" while keeping bits and pieces of their old culture. It happens every single time. Even now, I already know Arabs that can't read Arabic (that's how it starts) and know nothing about their home country, or valley girl Chinese that can't understand Mandarin at all. If they do it, anyone will. The assimilation factor is very real in this country except for in very specific situations, such as ultra orthodox Jews. Now yes, the numbers are far greater, but it's not as if these are 60 million newcomers to this country. These are already established American populations. You have Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio for example, both white latinos that aren't exactly attempting to pull the country to the left.I will concede that I believe this country will be shifting towards the left as time goes on, but I put that down to economic and social failings much more than I do any other factor to be quite honest. I will also concede that there are quite a few people that advocate for straight up communism, but just as you had support for Nazism during WWII, I don't think the country will move to there, but rather like any other third party it will serve to pull the mainstream in that general direction of the spectrum. For example, I do believe that eventually some sort of universal medicare system will end up being put in place, but I don't think we're going to be nationalization of other major industries.
This is actually something that I was thinking about recently. All of these protesters and movements of recent years, for whatever reason they all lack a centralized leadership or figurehead to really galvanize an electorate. The closest that I can say that we've had was maybe Bernie Sanders I guess. Not only did he not win though, but many of the types that would advocate for the changes that people seem to fear in this thread didn't even like him! He wasn't extreme enough for them. He didn't call for nationalization of industries or reparations or whatever flavor of the month proposal was trending on social media, so they wouldn't even vote for him. I can try to find examples if you'd like, but those are some old posts by now so I can't make any promises. Even now with Biden, a large portion of these progressive "Democrats" won't go near him because even though they'd have a far greater chance of getting sympathetic proposals passed by a moderate Democrat with the right amount of pressure, they're not going to vote for him because he doesn't perfectly fit their ideal candidate standards. Hell, Obama even called it out a while ago.
Sorry if this isn't as coherent as it should be, I'm tired
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because I don't follow american tv/news/media their crap can't touch me
Everyone has an agenda, including those Twitter posts you would be considering "news"
Still, ~20% of US population in 1920 were first or second immigrants. With the benefit of hindsight we can say they were assimilated well, but 4m Italian catholics and many Irish and Eastern European Jews were not really welcome if it wasn’t for much needed labor.
Also are we going to forget that extreme right and left in this country are both majority white and born here? in 1890s at least a lot of immigrants were agitators. Both Alexander Berkman and Emma Goldman were Russian immigrants. Labor unions had many immigrants too. These statue topplers are mostly white, and so are anti-science anti-mask crazy Trumpers.
On your last point I disagree. While some liberals see Emma Lazarus’ poem as only immigration policy they can think of, almost every immigrant I know sees it as opportunity. I’m a first gen immigrant myself and an extremely grateful one.
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What a clown.
Also are we going to forget that extreme right and left in this country are both majority white and born here? in 1890s at least a lot of immigrants were agitators. Both Alexander Berkman and Emma Goldman were Russian immigrants. Labor unions had many immigrants too. These statue topplers are mostly white, and so are anti-science anti-mask crazy Trumpers.
On your last point I disagree. While some liberals see Emma Lazarus’ poem as only immigration policy they can think of, almost every immigrant I know sees it as opportunity. I’m a first gen immigrant myself and an extremely grateful one.
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What a clown.
Very well reasoned post, sir.
The country demographics are changing, and revolutions are often about separating and "othering" your past -- much as races are othered. That means making despicable enemies of what came before, dismissing your ancestors, and raging against a history that can't fight back nor defend itself.
I saw a bit of this today when I read a comment about Trump doing a rally at Mount Rushmore:
https://apnews.com/50f6bdb9e2fd2349bb39b99c1250b093
A member of the Oglala Lakota tribe is quoted, “Mount Rushmore is a symbol of white supremacy, of structural racism that’s still alive and well in society today.” And yet South Dakota's legacy is one of being overrun murderously in succession by the Kiowa, Kiowa-Apache, Arikara, Arapaho, Mandans, Hidatsa, Crow, Cheyenne, and Sioux before the French came around. None of those occupying cultures are without sin of their occupation. Keep your patronizing noble savage myths to yourselves: these tribes were murderous, discriminatory, dehumanizing. They were humans, and as all humans we are imperfect and come with both our aspirations, our good deeds, and our evils.
So everything good about an occupying culture on a land -- because human history is merely the story of a succession of occupiers -- is literally whitewashed into an oversimplified binary definition of good and evil. Abe Lincoln, let alone George Washington, represents white supremacy -- as if that is the only lens on which to view a society and its values. By this broad definition, everything that exists on earth is a symbol of white supremacy and structural racism.
And you tear that down, you simply replace it with new flawed symbols and avoid addressing the root issue: humans are flawed. You can pretend you can do it better. But the Americans or the French or the Crow or the Arapaho weren't any better. And you can never escape your parents, as much as you say you hate them and pretend to be something different.
Same circus, different clowns. Because ultimately people are rebelling against the circus. Good luck with that.
The only additional context to the demographics part is that the world has also changed entirely around the society. The interconnectedness, the interdependency, and a future that is now more heavily determined not by our reductionist abilities to extract resources and produce tools in isolation but rather the global collective impacts of pretty much everything we do now. This is redefining much of the context of society now.
Totally agreed there. But what most people miss is that the assimilation of one culture into another ultimately changes both. There is no permanent, immutable root of American that survives all that. But this is the story of history. So buckle up.
I disagree on that. The whole Left vs Right thing is an old war, like colonial superpowers fighting over land. We are more in a war between Past and Future, Open and Closed than we are with any Left vs Right legacy.
I am skeptical of the cult of leadership. Humans are individually more flawed -- and they are being held individually to impossibly high standards now that they will ultimately disappoint everyone. I get that we as humans love to idolize others and want to emulate behavior, whether it's MLK or Greta Thunberg. But hero worship is for the weak. For the people who think the world from now on is about top-down hierarchies and leagues of followers. That model no longer works and won't get us anywhere. That's why BLM is an example of a leaderless organization -- or any variant of Butthole Boogaloo Bois you want. Twitter and social media is leaderless, really. Trump is old school cult of personality leadership, which we know today as a dictator style.
I think people like the familiar. They want individuals they can point to that will lead us to the promised land. People can be held up as symbols of what's good when trying to navigate complex societies. But that's a lie. There are no saviors.
We live in a networked world now -- not a hierarchical one. And that shift of balance is upturning nations, governments, businesses, everything. The sooner we recognize that and lean into that discomfort, the better. Causes, not some faux antiquated idea of "the leader", are what leads us now.
The country demographics are changing, and revolutions are often about separating and "othering" your past -- much as races are othered. That means making despicable enemies of what came before, dismissing your ancestors, and raging against a history that can't fight back nor defend itself.
I saw a bit of this today when I read a comment about Trump doing a rally at Mount Rushmore:
https://apnews.com/50f6bdb9e2fd2349bb39b99c1250b093
A member of the Oglala Lakota tribe is quoted, “Mount Rushmore is a symbol of white supremacy, of structural racism that’s still alive and well in society today.” And yet South Dakota's legacy is one of being overrun murderously in succession by the Kiowa, Kiowa-Apache, Arikara, Arapaho, Mandans, Hidatsa, Crow, Cheyenne, and Sioux before the French came around. None of those occupying cultures are without sin of their occupation. Keep your patronizing noble savage myths to yourselves: these tribes were murderous, discriminatory, dehumanizing. They were humans, and as all humans we are imperfect and come with both our aspirations, our good deeds, and our evils.
So everything good about an occupying culture on a land -- because human history is merely the story of a succession of occupiers -- is literally whitewashed into an oversimplified binary definition of good and evil. Abe Lincoln, let alone George Washington, represents white supremacy -- as if that is the only lens on which to view a society and its values. By this broad definition, everything that exists on earth is a symbol of white supremacy and structural racism.
And you tear that down, you simply replace it with new flawed symbols and avoid addressing the root issue: humans are flawed. You can pretend you can do it better. But the Americans or the French or the Crow or the Arapaho weren't any better. And you can never escape your parents, as much as you say you hate them and pretend to be something different.
Same circus, different clowns. Because ultimately people are rebelling against the circus. Good luck with that.
The only additional context to the demographics part is that the world has also changed entirely around the society. The interconnectedness, the interdependency, and a future that is now more heavily determined not by our reductionist abilities to extract resources and produce tools in isolation but rather the global collective impacts of pretty much everything we do now. This is redefining much of the context of society now.
Always my man
You're right about the demographic shift. However, I don't believe that it will have as large of an impact on the overall culture of this country as you think. Not too long ago I'd be considered part of the "outside" culture too, and now here I am, a product of illegal immigration from Italy where my family is largely gun toting, hard working conservatives that don't speak Italian at all. They'd fit right in with any other group of conservative white people from their respective age range, just with a much better taste for food. Give it 3 generations max and any immigrant family will be fully "Americanized" while keeping bits and pieces of their old culture. It happens every single time. Even now, I already know Arabs that can't read Arabic (that's how it starts) and know nothing about their home country, or valley girl Chinese that can't understand Mandarin at all. If they do it, anyone will. The assimilation factor is very real in this country except for in very specific situations, such as ultra orthodox Jews. Now yes, the numbers are far greater, but it's not as if these are 60 million newcomers to this country. These are already established American populations. You have Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio for example, both white latinos that aren't exactly attempting to pull the country to the left.
You're right about the demographic shift. However, I don't believe that it will have as large of an impact on the overall culture of this country as you think. Not too long ago I'd be considered part of the "outside" culture too, and now here I am, a product of illegal immigration from Italy where my family is largely gun toting, hard working conservatives that don't speak Italian at all. They'd fit right in with any other group of conservative white people from their respective age range, just with a much better taste for food
. Give it 3 generations max and any immigrant family will be fully "Americanized" while keeping bits and pieces of their old culture. It happens every single time. Even now, I already know Arabs that can't read Arabic (that's how it starts) and know nothing about their home country, or valley girl Chinese that can't understand Mandarin at all. If they do it, anyone will. The assimilation factor is very real in this country except for in very specific situations, such as ultra orthodox Jews. Now yes, the numbers are far greater, but it's not as if these are 60 million newcomers to this country. These are already established American populations. You have Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio for example, both white latinos that aren't exactly attempting to pull the country to the left.
I disagree on that. The whole Left vs Right thing is an old war, like colonial superpowers fighting over land. We are more in a war between Past and Future, Open and Closed than we are with any Left vs Right legacy.
I am skeptical of the cult of leadership. Humans are individually more flawed -- and they are being held individually to impossibly high standards now that they will ultimately disappoint everyone. I get that we as humans love to idolize others and want to emulate behavior, whether it's MLK or Greta Thunberg. But hero worship is for the weak. For the people who think the world from now on is about top-down hierarchies and leagues of followers. That model no longer works and won't get us anywhere. That's why BLM is an example of a leaderless organization -- or any variant of Butthole Boogaloo Bois you want. Twitter and social media is leaderless, really. Trump is old school cult of personality leadership, which we know today as a dictator style.
I think people like the familiar. They want individuals they can point to that will lead us to the promised land. People can be held up as symbols of what's good when trying to navigate complex societies. But that's a lie. There are no saviors.
We live in a networked world now -- not a hierarchical one. And that shift of balance is upturning nations, governments, businesses, everything. The sooner we recognize that and lean into that discomfort, the better. Causes, not some faux antiquated idea of "the leader", are what leads us now.
That is changing. Slowly. But it's changing. You don't find a passive citizenry in between all these big cities having issues. IMO you are going to see a boom for small towns again and its the small towns you don't really want to have a confrontation with. When I say confrontation I mean defacing their town square, burins shit, removing shit. There might not be a fight in the big cities but there will be serious confrontations if these movements start trickling to core of the nation.
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No wonder we get along so well.
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First Nations here want sovereignty. The country of Canada is a racist white colonial construct. 
Prescient microcosm, if you had watched this a year ago and listened to the last 5 minutes you'd think he was erring on the side of hyperbole, the events of the past few weeks say otherwise. @AFL_ITALIA @swag @Quetzalcoatl
Why are there so many science deniers these days?
On the far left, you have crazy trans rights activists who deny basic biology and on the right you have a slew of crazies who deny everything from climate change, to evolution, to Covid and vaccines (there are some anti-vaxxers on the left too).
I hate how people think 10 hours of ''research'' on Facebook invalidates decades or centuries of peer reviewed science with proven results.
On the far left, you have crazy trans rights activists who deny basic biology and on the right you have a slew of crazies who deny everything from climate change, to evolution, to Covid and vaccines (there are some anti-vaxxers on the left too).
I hate how people think 10 hours of ''research'' on Facebook invalidates decades or centuries of peer reviewed science with proven results.