'Murica! (101 Viewers)

Maddy

Oracle of Copenhagen
Jul 10, 2009
16,545
Sure, that's what the policymakers are supposed to do. Point is, within the US, there are huge regional differences in terms of opportunities and upward mobility - such differences might not be as striking in European countries.
Of course you see these differences in European countries as well. It's a question of inequality - many european countries are just as bad as America. Look at the UK as an example; very similar to the US. And even in Denmark and Sweden we have regional and local differences. I live in the richest municipality in Denmark, five minutes away is one of the poorest areas in Denmark. Between these two areas are a striking grade of inequality.

The second point I was making, and is not based on data but is simply my personal take, is that while it's optimal to keep touch with reality, it is imo healthier to overestimate than underestimate your control over your life outcomes. To believe that you can make a change (even if in reality you can't) is motivating and necessary for you to function. The policymakers' job is not and should not be related to how people assess their chances of moving upwards.
I get where you are coming from - I simply have another take on it.
I think this optimism is founded in a long story telling about how to reach 'the american dream'; a dream that has become increasingly more difficult to achieve. I see the Elite, Capitalists (wall street), and average Joes repeating this mantra: nothing stand in the way of your succes as long as you work hard [for me in the beginning]. This creates an individual causation, where the individual is [solely] reponsible for his/hers failure and succes.
When you get Average Joe to buy this explanation, you avoid dealing with the real causes such as inequality and it's becomes easier to sell a political platform where the rich are getting richer and the poorer are getting poor. Trickle down and reaganomics are great examples hereof, but also the lack of public spending on schools and education. So to me the american dream is not only fading and a hoax, it's even used as a tool to keep power among a select few as well as economical status quo: increased inequality. It's a tool to control the plebs. In Marx' words "Consumerism [the idea of the american dream] is the opium of the people".

Regarding the psychological aspect.
I think an overly optimistic attitude will delude you into a false sense of confidence, 'cause it's easier in your head than in reality, and then when you fail you'll get hit even harder, 'cause A) It's suppose to be easier B) Your own fault.
Where as a collective pessimist will take the hit much lighter 'cause A) It's suppose to be hard B) I'm not solely to blame for my situation

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I'd rather pessimist than optimist as the former are more likely to be in touch with reality and less likely to delude themselfs.
:agree:

Interesting that people with depression apparently have a very realistic outlook on possible scenarios. Depressive realism I think it's called.
 

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Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,899
Because you think Hillary is even worse? And shouldnt the whole population love other people, not just Christians?
Is it Jeopardy? Why do you answer questions with questions?
But anyway, Hillary was not the only choice on the ballot, and no, she was not nearly as big as Trump on the whole "Love your camp, fuck the rest" thing.
I answered your second question before, but anyway that's a deflection. We're talking about hypocrisy of Christians here.
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
Is it Jeopardy? Why do you answer questions with questions?
Its just so obvious for me that I dont understand your fixation on this, Christians are just as easily to manipulate as the rest of the population, probably even easier because most of the time they're more gullible and less educated. There are a lot better examples on Christians not showing love to their neighbors thann this. You know why it happens? We're all human, we're weak
 

lgorTudor

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2015
32,951
Fair enough. Can you educate us how you can believe in "Love your neighbor as yourself" (I believe it's Mark 12) and still choose Trump as your leader?
gee, I dunno, maybe pick and quote one of 5000 contadicting verses that cater to your agenda over the one that opposes it :D Come on, do you even religion 101?
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
Is it Jeopardy? Why do you answer questions with questions?
But anyway, Hillary was not the only choice on the ballot, and no, she was not nearly as big as Trump on the whole "Love your camp, fuck the rest" thing.
I answered your second question before, but anyway that's a deflection. We're talking about hypocrisy of Christians here.
Yeah, Trump might trump Hillary on the wall building subject, but that's just one of hundreds of factors you think about when voting a president and for nearly everyone you probably can find some verse or two. What I tried to say is you shouldnt put Christians on some imaginery pedestal, they're humans just like everyone else.

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Is it Jeopardy? Why do you answer questions with questions?
But anyway, Hillary was not the only choice on the ballot, and no, she was not nearly as big as Trump on the whole "Love your camp, fuck the rest" thing.
I answered your second question before, but anyway that's a deflection. We're talking about hypocrisy of Christians here.
Yeah, Trump might trump Hillary on the wall building subject, but that's just one of hundreds of factors you think about when voting a president and for nearly everyone you probably can find some verse or two. What I tried to say is you shouldnt put Christians on some imaginery pedestal, they're humans just like everyone else.
 

Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,899
Yeah, Trump might trump Hillary on the wall building subject, but that's just one of hundreds of factors you think about when voting a president and for nearly everyone you probably can find some verse or two. What I tried to say is you shouldnt put Christians on some imaginery pedestal, they're humans just like everyone else.

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Yeah, Trump might trump Hillary on the wall building subject, but that's just one of hundreds of factors you think about when voting a president and for nearly everyone you probably can find some verse or two. What I tried to say is you shouldnt put Christians on some imaginery pedestal, they're humans just like everyone else.
I don't put them in any pedestal. Is asking to go by the same moral code they preach is a big ask?
Also wall is not the reason I said Trump has no empathy. I mentioned several reasons why it was obvious he has no empathy a few posts back.
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
I don't put them in any pedestal. Is asking to go by the same moral code they preach is a big ask?
Also wall is not the reason I said Trump has no empathy. I mentioned several reasons why it was obvious he has no empathy a few posts back.
Yeah, its an impossible ask, hence the need for new testament
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
No. It isn't. That's what poor upward social mobility means. Most of the time, when all the odds are stacked against you, you don't come out on top. The overwhelming majority of people are not superhuman.
It's unbelievable people here are still arguing that if you work hard enough you will achieve the American dream. There is very little correlation between hard work and climbing the socio-economic ladder in America of today.

And it's obviously getting worse and worse with Conservatives like Trump taking aim at the Estate Tax now, which is one of the only things that even slightly curbs dynastic wealth in America.

But let's applaud living the American Dream of no universal health care, awful public education, no paid maternity leave, pathetic social programs, and so on. Sounds like a country that is fostering a great environment for the impoverished to rise above their circumstance. :baus:

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I'd rather pessimist than optimist as the former are more likely to be in touch with reality and less likely to delude themselfs.
Americans spent over $80 billion on lottery tickets in 2016 I recall reading. It's shocking the number of Americans who think lottery tickets are a good investment. The lottery is another aspect of the "American dream" for them.

Yeah, this article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/lotteries-americas-70-billion-shame/392870/

:baus:
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
64,717
"In North Dakota, per-capita lottery spending is a pittance at just $36 a year. In South Dakota, however, it’s an egregious $755 per head"
...
"But it’s the poor who are really losing. The poorest third of households buy half of all lotto tickets, according to a Duke University study in the 1980s, in part because lotteries are advertised most aggressively in poorer neighborhoods. A North Carolina report from NC Policy Watch found that the people living in the poorest counties buy the most tickets"
...
Local lottery ticket sales rise with poverty, but movie ticket sales do not. In other words, lotto games are not merely another form of cheap entertainment. They are also a prayer against poverty.
Poor folks trying to get their hands on easy money, Don't they know that all they have to do is try harder? I have zero empathy for lazy people like them.
 

campionesidd

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2013
16,843

X Æ A-12

Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
87,971
...

...
Poor folks trying to get their hands on easy money, Don't they know that all they have to do is try harder? I have zero empathy for lazy people like them.
Meh if they had money they would continue to blow it on lotto tickets and new rims anyway.

A majority of NFL and NBA players are broke within a few years of retirement ::lol3::
 

Ronn

Senior Member
May 3, 2012
20,899

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,665
@Seven

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/trump-xi-jinping-dictators/554810/

"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great. And look he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

Not a dictator wannabe at all, right conservative America? :hihi:
Time for the AR-15 club to put their money where their mouths are.

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*Obummer aka Barack Hussein
It's funny, cause now I can say with 100% certainty that most of the criticism of Obama was because his last name was funny sounding and he's black.
 

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