'Murica! (128 Viewers)

[Maddy]

You can't say the American Dream is still alive and admit that upward social mobility in the US is poor. It can't be both.

Yeah, we are also debating whether or not the american dream is fading; not only that Western Europe, Canada and Oceania have overtaken America. And this is where Hustini and ALC thru anecdotal evidence claims that there's is every opportunity in America if you just work hard. Ie. the still worsening economic mobility is down to lazyness, which is kinda irocnic since ALC once claimed Europeans were lazy (lazier than americans). We are lazy but still working harder, now that's a conundrum.

 

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[pitbull]

I'm sorry but responding in usual religious vagueness doesn't cut it for me. If you are an evangelical "born again" Christian, but you still keep doing what a non-Christian person would do, then why even go through that experience?
We're not talking about one or two fallible people but 70% of a large group.

what do you mean by this? what is the action that's so Not-Christian? I mean given the choice between Hillary, Trump and no voting I can't see an action that's clearly Christian or Not Christian. Can you explain this to me? I honestly don't get it, I think I know the general themes in Bible pretty well and there's not much about democracy there

 

[Maddy]

(and I don't know this, I'm neither American nor very interested in the subject)

DING DING @DAiDEViL we have a winner

 

[Seven]

it is alive in the sense that it's probably (and I don't know this, I'm neither American nor very interested in the subject) still possible to make your own destiny no matter the cave you come from, it's still in your own hands, it's just apparently harder to do than it was some time ago or than it is in other countries with more sensible governments.

No. It isn't. That's what poor upward social mobility means. Most of the time, when all the odds are stacked against you, you don't come out on top. The overwhelming majority of people are not superhuman.

 

[Maddy]

From personal experience, yeah. Completely different cultural workstyles. Takes months to get a report from them sometimes. Not to mention siestas being an acceptable thing.

Maybe lazy is the wrong term. But they just don’t care that much.

Europeans are better at economic and social mobility yet lazier, but to climb the ladder you only have to work hard.

- - - Updated - - -

No. It isn't. That's what poor upward social mobility means. Most of the time, when all the odds are stacked against you, you don't come out on top. The overwhelming majority of people are not superhuman.

 

[DAiDEViL]

DING DING @DAiDEViL we have a winner

How about you don't take part in the discussion if you have no idea what you are talking about?

Just keep on reading and lol at Hustini like i do.

 

[pitbull]

No. It isn't. That's what poor upward social mobility means. Most of the time, when all the odds are stacked against you, you don't come out on top. The overwhelming majority of people are not superhuman.

sorry, dumb it down for me. I started out to help the helpless Maddy interpret Hustini's posts, as he was obviously getting lost and eventually got dragged into this discussion I don't feel very comfortable in.

do you really believe that for a son of a bartender it's not possible in America to become f.e. a banker that earns 3 or 5 times the salary his father did? that's upward social mobility, right? and it's possible only for superhumans in America? I didn't know this, if that's the case, America is really truly fucked, stunning

 

[Maddy]

How about you don't take part in the discussion if you have no idea what you are talking about?

Just keep on reading and lol at Hustini like i do.

Dis gone be a classic. Look at PettyBull's aka the artist formerly knows as homophobe posts

 

[Ronn]

what do you mean by this? what is the action that's so Not-Christian? I mean given the choice between Hillary, Trump and no voting I can't see an action that's clearly Christian or Not Christian. Can you explain this to me? I honestly don't get it, I think I know the general themes in Bible pretty well and there's not much about democracy there

A non-Christian person is not bound by a moral code so their actions is only defined by laws, society norms, or whatever one perceives as moral. As for voting, NOT voting for Trump, as someone so clearly callous towards anybody outside of his camp would be naturally a better moral choice.

 

[Seven]

sorry, dumb it down for me. I started out to help the helpless Maddy interpret Hustini's posts, as he was obviously getting lost and eventually got dragged into this discussion I don't feel very comfortable in.

do you really believe that for a son of a bartender it's not possible in America to become f.e. a banker that earns 3 or 5 times the salary his father did? that's upward social mobility, right? and it's possible only for superhumans in America? I didn't know this, if that's the case, America is truly fucked, stunning

I believe it is very difficult, yes. And if you come from a single parent family living in a bad part of town, I think it is pretty much impossible, yes. Student loans alone already make it impossible. Nevermind getting the right education before you ever even think about going to college.

 

[pitbull]

I believe it is very difficult, yes. And if you come from a single parent family living in a bad part of town, I think it is pretty much impossible, yes. Student loans alone already make it impossible. Nevermind getting the right education before you ever even think about going to college.

ok, then I agree, if that's the case then there's no American Dream, yes. isn't there some sort of programs available that should make this possible?

 

[Ronn]

The lack of empathy might be the true problem of our time. I notice it every single day. It's as if somewhere along the way some of us evolved and no longer have this capacity.

Just look at the responses of some EU politicians towards refugees...

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[Maddy]

The lack of empathy might be the true problem of our time. I notice it every single day. It's as if somewhere along the way some of us evolved and no longer have this capacity.

Just look at the responses of some EU politicians towards refugees...

But what if it's humanly impossible [too hard] to have empathy for humans outside your tribe? It is known in psychology that the human brain simply can't feel compassionate/sympathy for those they don't consider their neighbours (part of the tribe, equals, similar - this a generalization), but that's one of the reasons why we react far more when a single person gets killed in our own city than 1000 in India.

Regarding EU politicians, beside extreme right wing, the most compassionate politicians in the world is to be fund in EU.

 

[Seven]

But what if it's humanly impossible [too hard] to have empathy for humans outside your tribe? It is known in psychology that the human brain simply can't feel compassionate/sympathy for those they don't consider their neighbours (part of the tribe, equals, similar - this a generalization), but that's one of the reasons why we react far more when a single person gets killed in our own city than 1000 in India.

Regarding EU politicians, beside extreme right wing, the most compassionate politicians in the world is to be fund in EU.

I understand it's easier to feel sympathy towards people who are close to you. But I don't understand why it is impossible for some to even contemplate about the faith of for example Syrians.

As for the politicians here.. I don't intend to say none of them care. Far from it. But I don't know if they would rank among the most compassionate either.

 

[Maddy]

I understand it's easier to feel sympathy towards people who are close to you. But I don't understand why it is impossible for some to even contemplate about the faith of for example Syrians.

As for the politicians here.. I don't intend to say none of them care. Far from it. But I don't know if they would rank among the most compassionate either.

We wouldn't mentally survive, if we couldn't push away the misfortunes of others. This is a mental coping mechanism. Doesn't make us bad humans, it only makes human.

Out of curiosity, who's showing more compassion than Western Europe?

 

[Seven]

We wouldn't mentally survive, if we couldn't push away the misfortunes of others. This is a mental coping mechanism. Doesn't make us bad humans, it only makes human.

Out of curiosity, who showing more compassion than Western Europe?

No, I meant that literally, I don't know.

 

[Maddy]

No, I meant that literally, I don't know.

I see and understand.

Guess it's a reaction from me based on annoying left wingers and social liberals calling - what to me is realism - the devils work and pure evil. But that's a domestic discussion.

I'm confident you have that in Belgium as well, guess most Belgians are quite reluctant to take in more people from the Middle East and Africa?

 

[Ronn]

We wouldn't mentally survive, if we couldn't push away the misfortunes of others. This is a mental coping mechanism. Doesn't make us bad humans, it only makes human.

Out of curiosity, who's showing more compassion than Western Europe?

Of course you can't feel the pain of every human being in the planet and still be able to survive. The question is how do you define your tribe vs the others?

 

[pitbull]

A non-Christian person is not bound by a moral code so their actions is only defined by laws, society norms, or whatever one perceives as moral. As for voting, NOT voting for Trump, as someone so clearly callous towards anybody outside of his camp would be naturally a better moral choice.

seriously, I don't see it. to quote yourself, can you get out of your "religious vagueness" and point out to me what exactly in the bible says that you should choose Not-Voting or Hillary over Trump? if you can't quote a verse, a general idea/story is enough.

and Trump being callous towards anybody outside of his camp isn't exactly a fact as well, it's not like that was his campaign slogan

 

[Ronn]

seriously, I don't see it. to quote yourself, can you get out of your "religious vagueness" and point out to me what exactly in the bible says that you should choose Not-Voting or Hillary over Trump? if you can't quote a verse, a general idea/story is enough

I'm not religious, and what I said was not pretty direct. If you can't see it, I'm sorry. I can't help you.