'Murica! (157 Viewers)

[Seven]

Why are those places shitholes?

This is not a difficult debate. I agree that calling a country a shithole isn't necessarily racist. Yemen, for example, is a shithole. However this does not imply that everyone from Yemen is somehow inferior.

But Trump did not just call those countries shitholes. He asked why the US would take people from shitholes and said the US should try to pick Norwegians instead. That is directed at the inhabitants, at the people of those countries, because he is literally saying that people from those places are somehow less deserving. And that is inherently racist.

 

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[ALC]

This is not a difficult debate. I agree that calling a country a shithole isn't necessarily racist. Yemen, for example, is a shithole. However this does not imply that everyone from Yemen is somehow inferior.

But Trump did not just call those countries shitholes. He asked why the US would take people from shitholes and said the US should try to pick Norwegians instead. That is directed at the inhabitants, at the people of those countries, because he is literally saying that people from those places are somehow less deserving. And that is inherently racist.

Of course it’s racist. Context is a thing. The same thing would apply if I said pandas are stupid. The context behind it defines the intent of the statement and there’s no way people aren’t picking up on the intent behind Trump’s statement.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

This is not a difficult debate. I agree that calling a country a shithole isn't necessarily racist. Yemen, for example, is a shithole. However this does not imply that everyone from Yemen is somehow inferior.

But Trump did not just call those countries shitholes. He asked why the US would take people from shitholes and said the US should try to pick Norwegians instead. That is directed at the inhabitants, at the people of those countries, because he is literally saying that people from those places are somehow less deserving. And that is inherently racist.

How is it inherently racist? You mean to tell me an average african has better chances to integrate and contribute to American society than the average Norwegian? BTW Trumps immigration policy is the opposite of racist, he wants a merit based immigration policy instead of the current lottery program which prompted the shithole comment. Like i said before i find Trump disgusting and vile, but the reaction here is just as vile but on the other side of the spectrum.

 

[Ronn]

IDGAF WHAT TRUMP DOES, HE CALLED OUT PAKISTAN AND EXPOSED THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE WHILE OBAMA GAVE THEM EXTRA AID AND PRETTY MUCH TOLD TALEBAN SIT TIGHT WE'LL BE GONE IN A FEW YEARS.

We get it. YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOUR CORNER OF THE WORLD!
Calling out Pakistan is very brave indeed. Let's wait and see whether it's wise too.

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How is it inherently racist? You mean to tell me an average african has better chances to integrate and contribute to American society than the average Norwegian? BTW Trumps immigration policy is the opposite of racist, he wants a merit based immigration policy instead of the current lottery program which prompted the shithole comment. Like i said before i find Trump disgusting and vile, but the reaction here is just as vile but on the other side of the spectrum.

Nope. Merit based system will replace so-called "chain migration", which is basically the ability of naturalized US citizens to sponsor green cards for their relatives.
Lottery system is only a tiny fraction of US immigration system and Trump wants it gone. It basically prioritize countries whose citizens do not apply for US Green Cards very often. in 2015 4103 visas were issued to Russians (among the highest) and 1798 to Australia. Naturally, majority of the winners are from Africa and Middle East.

 

[DAiDEViL]

This is not a difficult debate. I agree that calling a country a shithole isn't necessarily racist. Yemen, for example, is a shithole. However this does not imply that everyone from Yemen is somehow inferior.

But Trump did not just call those countries shitholes. He asked why the US would take people from shitholes and said the US should try to pick Norwegians instead. That is directed at the inhabitants, at the people of those countries, because he is literally saying that people from those places are somehow less deserving. And that is inherently racist.

That's how i see it as well

 

[Seven]

How is it inherently racist? You mean to tell me an average african has better chances to integrate and contribute to American society than the average Norwegian? BTW Trumps immigration policy is the opposite of racist, he wants a merit based immigration policy instead of the current lottery program which prompted the shithole comment. Like i said before i find Trump disgusting and vile, but the reaction here is just as vile but on the other side of the spectrum.

That's not what Trump said.

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[GordoDeCentral]

We get it. YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOUR CORNER OF THE WORLD!
Calling out Pakistan is very brave indeed. Let's wait and see whether it's wise too.

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Nope. Merit based system will replace so-called "chain migration", which is basically the ability of naturalized US citizens to sponsor green cards for their relatives.
Lottery system is only a tiny fraction of US immigration system and Trump wants it gone. It basically prioritize countries whose citizens do not apply for US Green Cards very often. in 2015 4103 visas were issued to Russians (among the highest) and 1798 to Australia. Naturally, majority of the winners are from Africa and Middle East.

That's not what Trump said.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDona...057/donald-trump-shithole-countries-tps-daca/


http://time.com/5101057/donald-trump-shithole-countries-tps-daca/

During the discussion of the green card lottery, Trump repeated his criticism of the program, arguing that African immigrants were coming from “shithole countries.”

“Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” he said, according to a Washington Post account.

 

[Seven]

It's racist because Trump didn't say 'I want immigrants who are able to speak English ir have a better chance at contributing to society'.

Rather he assumed that people from African countries (Trump means black people) are not able to speak English or contribute in a meaningful way.

That is racist. No other way to see it. And it's coming from someone who has been racist his entire fucking life. The dude wants black people who are proven innocent executed ffs.

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[GordoDeCentral]

It's racist because Trump didn't say 'I want immigrants who are able to speak English ir have a better chance at contributing to society'.

Rather he assumed that people from African countries (Trump means black people) are not able to speak English or contribute in a meaningful way.

That is racist. No other way to see it. And it's coming from someone who has been racist his entire fucking life. The dude wants black people who are proven innocent executed ffs.

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The context is the lottery program which randomly selects a number of people from countries all over the world, he didn't just come out of nowhere and say why we have so many Africans, it was in relation to the program he's been attacking for a while.
Trump is most likely racist, he's a rich old white dude, but this piece of policy is not his, before he even ran for office the GOP have been in a tug of war over this with the dems.

 

[Seven]

The context is the lottery program which randomly selects a number of people from countries all over the world, he didn't just come out of nowhere and say why we have so many Africans, it was in relation to the program he's been attacking for a while.
Trump is most likely racist, he's a rich old white dude, but this piece of policy is not his, before he even ran for office the GOP have been in a tug of war over this with the dems.

I know the context. I still think it's racist. At the very least you have to acknowledge that he chose the most hurtful way to state his opinion, with complete disregard for other nations and peoples.

So even then it is behaviour unbecoming of a president.

Btw the lottery program itself is weird as fuck.

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[GordoDeCentral]

I know the context. I still think it's racist. At the very least you have to acknowledge that he chose the most hurtful way to state his opinion, with complete disregard for other nations and peoples.

So even then it is behaviour unbecoming of a president.

Btw the lottery program itself is weird as fuck.

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Oh no doubt, he's a tactless idiot, he's as presidential as a circus clown on bath salts

 

[ALC]

The lottery program isn’t random.

 

[Seven]

The lottery program isn’t random.

It's still an atrocious system. It also implies that people are 'fortunate' because they are able to get in to the US. It is shockingly arrogant imo.

 

[Ronn]

It's still an atrocious system. It also implies that people are 'fortunate' because they are able to get in to the US. It is shockingly arrogant imo.

It is weird but only a small portion of immigrant visas are given with the lottery. 50k vs total of 1M.


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[Ronn]

The lottery program isn’t random.

After selecting each country's quota, it is random. Basically applicants from each country have the same chance of being selected.


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[Seven]

It is weird but only a small portion of immigrant visas are given with the lottery. 50k vs total of 1M.


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Yeah, it's pretty insignificant. But I'm against it as a matter of principle. It's just weird that you are so arrogant to assume that the entire world is fighting for a spot in America that you would organise a lottery and reward the lucky few. That's fucked up on so many levels.

 

[ALC]

After selecting each country's quota, it is random. Basically applicants from each country have the same chance of being selected.


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First you have to apply. Then you have to go through rounds of interviews. That’s not random to me.

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Yeah, it's pretty insignificant. But I'm against it as a matter of principle. It's just weird that you are so arrogant to assume that the entire world is fighting for a spot in America that you would organise a lottery and reward the lucky few. That's fucked up on so many levels.

Disagree. But I’m also in US because of the lottery. Nothing fucked up about it, it gives people opportunities. Not to everyone, but like I said, you do have to go through a process to be given the visa.

 

[Seven]

First you have to apply. Then you have to go through rounds of interviews. That’s not random to me.

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Disagree. But I’m also in US because of the lottery. Nothing fucked up about it, it gives people opportunities. Not to everyone, but like I said, you do have to go through a process to be given the visa.

People deserve opportunities based on objective criteria. Not because of a lottery.

 

[Ronn]

First you have to apply. Then you have to go through rounds of interviews. That’s not random to me.

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Disagree. But I’m also in US because of the lottery. Nothing fucked up about it, it gives people opportunities. Not to everyone, but like I said, you do have to go through a process to be given the visa.

Interviews are pretty much "what's your name?", "can I see your passport" kind of thing. Believe me, I know of a ton of winners.
The selection is 100% random. There's a FBI check afterwards which is only as good as the documents the winner provides to the consulate.

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Yeah, it's pretty insignificant. But I'm against it as a matter of principle. It's just weird that you are so arrogant to assume that the entire world is fighting for a spot in America that you would organise a lottery and reward the lucky few. That's fucked up on so many levels.

Strongly disagree. If the world don't like it they on't apply and the program dies. There are unofficial stats saying ~13M people apply every year.

 

[king Ale]

How is it inherently racist? You mean to tell me an average african has better chances to integrate and contribute to American society than the average Norwegian? BTW Trumps immigration policy is the opposite of racist, he wants a merit based immigration policy instead of the current lottery program which prompted the shithole comment. Like i said before i find Trump disgusting and vile, but the reaction here is just as vile but on the other side of the spectrum.

The said policy evaluates people's credentials, and one's qualification should and does have nothing to do with where they are from. The "on average" argument that you use to show what Trump said was not racist is the definition of stereotyping, which is fine, understandable and useful as long as there is absolutely no other/better way of making a judgment. Why would you need to predict on average how much contribution a Haitian versus a Norwegian can make to the society when you can easily look at their qualifications before letting them in? When you have a much better and more accurate way of making such judgment (which is the whole rationale behind the merit-based policy), yet you choose to group Haitians and Africans in a bucket of useless parasites who need to be taken out it only means one thing, and no matter how prettier you try to label it it simply doesn't work.