'Murica! (348 Viewers)

[Fake Melo]

Then read it, only thing he is doing is making outlandish statements, fearmongering and being insulting/exaggerating, villifying and generally stereotyping full time. Nothing of what he said in the debate was whatsoever genuine thoughts or arguments. He was shouting slogans and beating his cheast, its embarrassing enough it seems to work so far. But he wont go anywhere when the real show starts. In fact will make it easier for Hillary at this point if the GOP dont come up with an actual real politician instead of just a showman loudmouth.

Fearmongering and being insulty is not worse than the patronizing Obama does in his debates. The reason it's working for Trump is that the people are tired of Obama's lies. I think you are undermining Trump, he has hired some pretty good people and will do well when the real show starts. He may not win, but I don't think any of the other republican candidates will do better than him.

 

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[Enron]

Fearmongering and being insulty is not worse than the patronizing Obama does in his debates. The reason it's working for Trump is that the people are tired of Obama's lies. I think you are undermining Trump, he has hired some pretty good people and will do well when the real show starts. He may not win, but I don't think any of the other republican candidates will do better than him.

Dude Trump is already fibbing quite well.

 

[Fake Melo]

Dude Trump is already fibbing quite well.

I am not saying he is the perfect candidate, far from, but among these idiots Trump may be least of the evils

 

[Bjerknes]

No. Trump really is that bad. I think he's an intelligent man and some of the things he says are not stupid at all. Even his inflammatory comments have some worth to them. But he is clearly unfit to be President of the USA. Nevermind this discussion about figures.

What would you consider as being "fit"? Being a party cocksucker like Jeb Bush?

None of that matters bro. What matters is what Trump would do as president. And if Trump was President and doing the things you mentioned made him look good, you better believe he would do it. Guy's an opportunist.

What politician isn't an opportunist though? It seems like there are a lot of double standards when it comes to Trump.

I think he's becoming popular because he isn't afraid to speak his mind and axe the PC garbage that is ruining this country. The fact Democrats, FOX News, and others seem to despise him is actually quite intriguing. Dare I say, it makes me even ponder voting for him. But I think there are other factors at play here that we are not privy to at this point. He could be a ringer, he could be a plant, or he could very well be genuine. It will be interesting to see what happens, but part of me does respect his vitriolic rhetoric and the fact that he isn't a career politician.

 

[Osman]

but part of me does respect his vitriolic rhetoric and the fact that he isn't a career politician.

But anything else about him or what he says? I dont get why he should get so much credit just because he says talks (more like shouts) and acts different, what good or even remotely useful could he do that would engage anyone to vote for him? He is not the other career politicians isnt enough. People may take it as bullshit, but a politician actually have to talk about politics and governing...what he proposes to do if he gets the chance to run things. this loudmouth isnt.

 

[Martin]

But anything else about him or what he says? I dont get why he should get so much credit just because he says talks (more like shouts) and acts different, what good or even remotely useful could he do that would engage anyone to vote for him? He is not the other career politicians isnt enough. People may take it as bull$#@!, but a politician actually have to talk about politics and governing...what he proposes to do if he gets the chance to run things. this loudmouth isnt.

So the fact that he isn't a career politician means that he can cut out the middleman (lobbyist) and just directly decide things in the favor of his businesses.

Has he ever shown even the slightest amount of care for public issues?

 

[Bjerknes]

But anything else about him or what he says? I dont get why he should get so much credit just because he says talks (more like shouts) and acts different, what good or even remotely useful could he do that would engage anyone to vote for him? He is not the other career politicians isnt enough. People may take it as bull$#@!, but a politician actually have to talk about politics and governing...what he proposes to do if he gets the chance to run things. this loudmouth isnt.

Yes indeed, some of the stuff he's said about the economy and illegals I do agree with.

I know that at least in our media, most of the time they show clips of him going off on reporters. Much of the time they ask him accusatory questions to anger him, to which he responds rather bluntly. I'm sure they show similar clips over there.

We'll wait and see what ideas he can bring to the table in future debates and less combative interviews. Like I said, the fact he isn't a career politician and a PC nut job resonates well with me at least. Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but I do have to defend him in some areas at this point because there's way too much hypocrisy against the guy.

So the fact that he isn't a career politician means that he can cut out the middleman (lobbyist) and just directly decide things in the favor of his businesses.

Has he ever shown even the slightest amount of care for public issues?

I know he donates to charity, but is the job of a businessman to spend time all day talking about public issues? What do you expect of him?

 

[Osman]

But Andy, GOP debate isnt your typical media spin. He was asked DIRECT questions to explain his thoughts and platform policies, debate and argue like a sane normal individual, and he flat out refused to and instead continued with the clown shouting slogans (he chooses to go with this shallow approach, because going indepth means he actually has to talk). You saw the debate yourself, and said only Carson, Paul and Kasich came out of it looking good. Thats what I mean, if he cant even bother to talk or reason, even in psuedo BS try to convince, why give him so much credit?

So far its all about he is loudmouth un PC different and does text book fearmongering.

 

[Bjerknes]

But Andy, GOP debate isnt your typical media spin. He was asked DIRECT questions to explain his thoughts and platform policies, debate and argue like a sane normal individual, and he flat out refused to and instead continued with the clown shouting slogans (he chooses to go with this shallow approach, because going indepth means he actually has to talk). You saw the debate yourself, and said only Carson, Paul and Kasich came out of it looking good. Thats what I mean, if he cant even bother to talk or reason, even in psuedo BS try to convince, why give him so much credit?

So far its all about he is loudmouth un PC different and does text book fearmongering.

Yes, Paul and Carson certainly won the first debate. But like I said, FOX attacked him right off the bat with the opening question, so that might have set the tone, or he might be using this approach to gain popularity at first. Do you think Trump is an idiot? Like I said, there are probably some other things at play here that I don't know, but I'll reserve full judgement at this point. We already know what the likes of Bush, Rubio, and the rest of those clowns are like.

 

[Osman]

Yes, but lets ignore those attacking him, he is doing the simplest things to gain popularity, he is certaintly smart in his approach because he knows this works, fullfilling a niche (if he was genuine just trying as a normal politician, he wouldnt stand a chance) he is playing to peoples fears, stereotypes and need for change just pointing fingers and saying fvck the establishment, classic opportunistic loudmouth politician. Most of what he is saying is pretty much how the right wing cuckoo parties in Europe gained popularity in Europe, banking on fear of immigrants and bad economy to fan the flames.

But what is he genuinly saying that you find agreeable? Lets ignore the part of he isnt the other mofos. The debate gave him a chance to speak, that Wallace moderator was fair, he asked him to explain himself and pointed out inconsistencies in his statements and past views (even that moron Christie was better at defending his flaws better then Trump). Every time Trump refused to answer and went back to shouting the same thing, trying to play the victim for simply being asked to explain his statements. Even in a question about international relations he started shouting about immigration. Its very obvious to see what his simple goal and tactic it is.

Its sad its working so far, even in a broken sham of a system, that the expectations has gotten so low that this type of boneheaded populistic BS fearmongering style is acceptable enough to be elected for by the general masses. But I dont count you as one, so as genuine individual who can think for yourself, what does he say that you can find any substance in? What do you think of how he is like?

 

[Seven]

But anything else about him or what he says? I dont get why he should get so much credit just because he says talks (more like shouts) and acts different, what good or even remotely useful could he do that would engage anyone to vote for him? He is not the other career politicians isnt enough. People may take it as bullshit, but a politician actually have to talk about politics and governing...what he proposes to do if he gets the chance to run things. this loudmouth isnt.

It's the equivalent of electing me president of Juventuz. It's ridiculous.

 

[Ocelot]

It's the equivalent of electing me president of Juventuz. It's ridiculous.

That there's even a debate or people defending him says it all.

 

[Martin]

I know he donates to charity, but is the job of a businessman to spend time all day talking about public issues? What do you expect of him?

If he's gonna be a politician then yes, I do expect him to at least show an interest in the public sphere. He's a public person after all. Don't you?

 

[.zero]

@Bjerknes @Hustini @swag @Dru @Enron , what stands out in this one?

Spoiler

Check out Q31 and 32 :dielaugh:

There is no doubt I would vote for Nuts if it carried

 

[Bjerknes]

Yes, but lets ignore those attacking him, he is doing the simplest things to gain popularity, he is certaintly smart in his approach because he knows this works, fullfilling a niche (if he was genuine just trying as a normal politician, he wouldnt stand a chance) he is playing to peoples fears, stereotypes and need for change just pointing fingers and saying fvck the establishment, classic opportunistic loudmouth politician. Most of what he is saying is pretty much how the right wing cuckoo parties in Europe gained popularity in Europe, banking on fear of immigrants and bad economy to fan the flames.

But these are important issues. You may not agree, but they certainly are, especially in the United States. We have a major problem with debt and illegal immigration, so it's a good thing Trump brought the latter to the table as nobody else has been discussing it.

But what is he genuinly saying that you find agreeable? Lets ignore the part of he isnt the other mofos. The debate gave him a chance to speak, that Wallace moderator was fair, he asked him to explain himself and pointed out inconsistencies in his statements and past views (even that moron Christie was better at defending his flaws better then Trump). Every time Trump refused to answer and went back to shouting the same thing, trying to play the victim for simply being asked to explain his statements. Even in a question about international relations he started shouting about immigration. Its very obvious to see what his simple goal and tactic it is.

There are a few items regarding government spending and the economy that I agree with:

1) Eliminate capital gains tax
2) Eliminate death tax
3) Impose a 20% tax on firms that outsource overseas
4) Tariffs on China and Mexico
5) Repeal Obamacare

Topics I disagree with:

1) Wall Street "pros" running the economy -- not sure if that is a good idea
2) War-like stance on other countries like China
3) Some of the immigration stuff, such as the wall (but the illegals do need to go)

That there's even a debate or people defending him says it all.

What does it say?

Moreover, what say do you have in this? I don't go around instructing you on who you should vote for in your country.

 

[Osman]

Thanks for the response

I agree with you that the main (only one for me) good use he has is that he brings up issues that others avoided/wasnt in the public eyes agenda. Regarding the rest of the points you mentionned, they seem rather meagre for a presidential candidate. But more importantly, he needs to clarify these things in debates tho, he speaks (shouts) in general terms, never ever wants to clarify he points and specific ideas in the debate. But he seems to be dead scared of scrutiny/questions on vital topics, so he completely avoids it. At some point you have to drop the slogans and need to directly speak about your ideas in depth and what you want to do for the public. Stop only focusing on that there is a problem, but what to do about it (shouting build wall higher then the rest is not a valid immigration policy). He seems more keen on financial issues, but not suprising as a billionnaire bussinessman.

 

[Seven]

Immigration is a global issue and it should be treated as one. Sure, the US and the EU could spend the next decades building ever higher walls, making immigration procedures tougher, deporting illegal immigrants.. But it would do nothing to stop the near constant flood of people trying to get in these countries.

Europe is at the point where it has to consider letting them die FFS.

 

[swag]

But these are important issues. You may not agree, but they certainly are, especially in the United States. We have a major problem with debt and illegal immigration, so it's a good thing Trump brought the latter to the table as nobody else has been discussing it.



There are a few items regarding government spending and the economy that I agree with:

1) Eliminate capital gains tax
2) Eliminate death tax
3) Impose a 20% tax on firms that outsource overseas
4) Tariffs on China and Mexico
5) Repeal Obamacare

Topics I disagree with:

1) Wall Street "pros" running the economy -- not sure if that is a good idea
2) War-like stance on other countries like China
3) Some of the immigration stuff, such as the wall (but the illegals do need to go)




What does it say?

Moreover, what say do you have in this? I don't go around instructing you on who you should vote for in your country.

Just curious. Why cap gains and why death tax?

The former is already discounted relative to standard rates with an even steeper discount for assets held over one year. You also have a better hedge for capital losses, which encourages capital risk but only up to the responsible point where it can be capped.

As for the latter, we're only talking about the nepotism of asset transfers when people are foolish enough not to set up trusts and estate plans.

 

[Bjerknes]

Thanks for the response

I agree with you that the main (only one for me) good use he has is that he brings up issues that others avoided/wasnt in the public eyes agenda. Regarding the rest of the points you mentionned, they seem rather meagre for a presidential candidate. But more importantly, he needs to clarify these things in debates tho, he speaks (shouts) in general terms, never ever wants to clarify he points and specific ideas in the debate. But he seems to be dead scared of scrutiny/questions on vital topics, so he completely avoids it. At some point you have to drop the slogans and need to directly speak about your ideas in depth and what you want to do for the public. Stop only focusing on that there is a problem, but what to do about it (shouting build wall higher then the rest is not a valid immigration policy). He seems more keen on financial issues, but not suprising as a billionnaire bussinessman.

You got it, buddy.

I'm not exactly a fan of his demeanor in the debates (discussing the establishment is great though) but again, it was just the first debate after all.

I don't think think the tax stuff is meager though. My number one issue is the economy, so tax policy is extremely important. However, I will say that Trump hasn't really formulated any proposals on reducing government spending either, so he's hardly a great candidate at this point. We'll see, but he's certainly no Rand Paul, a rather sensible Libertarian.

Immigration is a global issue and it should be treated as one. Sure, the US and the EU could spend the next decades building ever higher walls, making immigration procedures tougher, deporting illegal immigrants.. But it would do nothing to stop the near constant flood of people trying to get in these countries.

Europe is at the point where it has to consider letting them die FFS.

It's not that all of these people are bad people. Rather, the strain they cause on the governments dealing with them from a cost perspective is the larger issue. Plus it's just bad for the overall economy to have such a surplus in labor with increased government spending and reduced output. That's what nobody understands or wants to admit.

Just curious. Why cap gains and why death tax?

The former is already discounted relative to standard rates with an even steeper discount for assets held over one year. You also have a better hedge for capital losses, which encourages capital risk but only up to the responsible point where it can be capped.

As for the latter, we're only talking about the nepotism of asset transfers when people are foolish enough not to set up trusts and estate plans.

I want a ZERO capital gains tax. If I invest my own money in a security, I am purchasing an already risky asset as it is and shouldn't have to pay anything back to the government because 1) I'm helping prop up their fucking market by purchasing securities (which is what they want) and 2) they have the FED lowering rates so low you can't make any return on typical CD's or savings accounts. Why should I, or even Trump for that matter, have to pay a single cent to these freaks when they already have the market cornered to benefit their buddies at the banks and their reputation as a government? Fuck them.

At least Bush had the 529 plans tax free for 6 years, then they repealed that. Capital gains tax should always be zero until the end of time. And hell, the income tax should be zero as well. The IRS is essentially the collection agency for the Fed anyways.

 

[Fake Melo]

You guys have to explain to me what the US politicians obsession with Israel is all about? Every candidate goes out of his way to show support to Israel.

I know that the israeli lobbies do intensive work with members of the congress, and donate a lot of money to presidential candidates, but what about people like Trump? He doesn't need economic support from anyone. Is it radical islam that pushes them to support Israel?