'Murica! (238 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

European Socialism: Why America Doesn't Want It

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/10/25/european-socialism-why-america-doesnt-want-it/

Add in the seemingly endless attack against individualism, personal freedom, private property, et cetera, yeah, we're heading in the wrong direction.

Inequality has been rising rapidly the past few decades, at the same time maximum tax rates have decreased just as drastically. It's only natural that there are finally some calls for a fairere tax system and criticism of inequality.

Also, this article is just laughable, no arguments whatsoever. It's basically "Denmark has a huge public sector and high tax rates. This is bad. I won't tell you why this is bad or any problems that the Danish have because of that, but it's bad. America shouldn't become like that".

Seriously, Denmark is one of the wealthiest & most equal societies in the world. This article one the other hand doesn't even bother to cite some evidence of why a strong public sector & welfare state would be bad for the Danish, it just boldly suggests that it is. Even disregarding my obvious ideological bias this is just a very bad argumentative text, objectively speaking. This doesn't do justice to serious & intelligent supporters of fiscal conservatism & little government intervention.

 

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[Fred]

To be honest, even though I'm on the libertarian camp ideologically; that is indeed a poor article, it says almost nothing at all. I was quite hopeful that there would actually be some valid arguments against the Nordic model but alas

 

[Martin]

To be honest, even though I'm on the libertarian camp ideologically; that is indeed a poor article, it says almost nothing at all. I was quite hopeful that there would actually be some valid arguments against the Nordic model but alas

why are you looking for them?
what don't you like about the results it produces?

 

[Fred]

why are you looking for them?
what don't you like about the results it produces?

In Scandinavia it's produced some very good results, no doubt. Though I'd argue there are some contextual factors that have contributed to that.

 

[Ocelot]

To be honest, even though I'm on the libertarian camp ideologically; that is indeed a poor article, it says almost nothing at all. I was quite hopeful that there would actually be some valid arguments against the Nordic model but alas

Exactly, I mean you could write a good, convincing article about why the Nordic model wouldn't work for the US (as you could for the other side, more convincingly imo ), but this is just poor craftsmanship.

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In Scandinavia it's produced some very good results, no doubt. Though I'd argue there are some contextual factors that have contributed to that.

No doubt. And that's where a good article on the topic would base its thesis on imo.

 

[Martin]

In Scandinavia it's produced some very good results, no doubt. Though I'd argue there are some contextual factors that have contributed to that.

then shouldn't your focus be on trying to understand how to reproduce it instead of looking for ways to discredit it?

 

[Fred]

then shouldn't your focus be on trying to understand how to reproduce it instead of looking for ways to discredit it?

Like I said, I'd argue that it works in Scandinavian countries due to contextual factors that are specific to those countries.

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I mean in general such a high tax burden, and extremely generous entitlements to the unemployed(especially and specifically when they are young people) just provides the wrong incentives.

 

[JuveJay]

Also, this article is just laughable, no arguments whatsoever. It's basically "Denmark has a huge public sector and high tax rates. This is bad. I won't tell you why this is bad or any problems that the Danish have because of that, but it's bad. America shouldn't become like that".

Clearly the author is from the Donald Trump school of debating.

 

[Osman]

European Socialism: Why America Doesn't Want It

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/10/25/european-socialism-why-america-doesnt-want-it/

Add in the seemingly endless attack against individualism, personal freedom, private property, et cetera, yeah, we're heading in the wrong direction.

That article , what a hoot

So gonna show it to my old international relations professor next time I see him. Reminds me of how he used to talk about the warped sense of political termanology and basic education of other ways to govern in US and its media (he grew up there), specifically the dishonest and limited view they have of European politics and with scaremongering terms like socialism that no one seems to know the definition of.

 

[Fred]

Damn, you Scandinavians really are sensitive when it comes to this shit. The Danes would have flooded this thread if they were around too, nothing hurts them more than someone taking a dig at their taxes or unemployment benefits

 

[Osman]

FFS dude, did you read it?

After saying very little really, he ends it with: Growing up in Denmark, I’ve seen this picture before. If America doesn’t want socialism its people must wake up and heed the lessons being played out in counties around the world – like Denmark.. If America doesn’t want socialism it must seek politicians and policies that allow the individual to have more liberty and freedom. If America doesn’t want socialism it must act now. But America must first answer the questions…. Does America Want Socialism?



Such a lazy and dishonest effort.

 

[Enron]

FFS dude, did you read it?

After saying very little really, he ends it with: Growing up in Denmark, I’ve seen this picture before. If America doesn’t want socialism its people must wake up and heed the lessons being played out in counties around the world – like Denmark.. If America doesn’t want socialism it must seek politicians and policies that allow the individual to have more liberty and freedom. If America doesn’t want socialism it must act now. But America must first answer the questions…. Does America Want Socialism?

I expect we'll be invading Vietnam in the next year or so.

 

[Osman]

Haha indeed, Denmark new Vietnam

its downright silly that such archaic fearmongering rhetorics still exist outside scenarios like in the worst moments of the cold war.

 

[Fred]

FFS dude, did you read it?

After saying very little really, he ends it with: Growing up in Denmark, I’ve seen this picture before. If America doesn’t want socialism its people must wake up and heed the lessons being played out in counties around the world – like Denmark.. If America doesn’t want socialism it must seek politicians and policies that allow the individual to have more liberty and freedom. If America doesn’t want socialism it must act now. But America must first answer the questions…. Does America Want Socialism?



Such a lazy and dishonest effort.

I did read it, and if you scroll up a bit you'll find I said it was a silly article

 

[Osman]

So what makes it sensitive about this article as a Scandi? Its just downright laughable how poor it is. To the point it reminded me of a lecture I had nearly 8 years ago about the poor misguided rhetorics of US media regarding European governing systems.

 

[Martin]

Like I said, I'd argue that it works in Scandinavian countries due to contextual factors that are specific to those countries.

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I mean in general such a high tax burden, and extremely generous entitlements to the unemployed(especially and specifically when they are young people) just provides the wrong incentives.

why are those incentives wrong then?

btw incentives are evaluated when applied to see how well they work, not in theory. clearly they work fine in this case

 

[Seven]

why are those incentives wrong then?

btw incentives are evaluated when applied to see how well they work, not in theory. clearly they work fine in this case

How do you expect someone who's cool with forced labour to understand that in developed countries the unemployed get certain benefits?

 

[Hængebøffer]

Inequality has been rising rapidly the past few decades, at the same time maximum tax rates have decreased just as drastically. It's only natural that there are finally some calls for a fairere tax system and criticism of inequality.

Also, this article is just laughable, no arguments whatsoever. It's basically "Denmark has a huge public sector and high tax rates. This is bad. I won't tell you why this is bad or any problems that the Danish have because of that, but it's bad. America shouldn't become like that".

Seriously, Denmark is one of the wealthiest & most equal societies in the world. This article one the other hand doesn't even bother to cite some evidence of why a strong public sector & welfare state would be bad for the Danish, it just boldly suggests that it is. Even disregarding my obvious ideological bias this is just a very bad argumentative text, objectively speaking. This doesn't do justice to serious & intelligent supporters of fiscal conservatism & little government intervention.

That guy is what Americans call a libertarian. Other than that, he usually has some good points, but - as you can read - he's too caught up in the political rhetoric.

 

[swag]

That guy is what Americans call a libertarian. Other than that, he usually has some good points, but - as you can read - he's too caught up in the political rhetoric.

Too many people who let Twitter accounts bleed over into actual publications.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Too many people who let Twitter accounts bleed over into actual publications.

This happens everywhere - also in political debates. America won.