'Murica! (325 Viewers)

[Ronn]

I don't think all of them claim to be against Wall Street. But yes, many of them are certainly frauds as well.

This is the legislation she sponsored, or cosponsored:
https://www.congress.gov/member/elizabeth-warren/W000817
You must be blind if you do not see a trend of financial protection of middle class in her work, which she has been devoted to for the past 35 years.
Now I'd be really delighted if you show me what Senator Paul had done for this cause. He's very much against Wall Street, right?

 

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[Bjerknes]

This is the legislation she sponsored, or cosponsored:
https://www.congress.gov/member/elizabeth-warren/W000817
You must be blind if you do not see a trend of financial protection of middle class in her work, which she has been devoted to for the past 35 years.
Now I'd be really delighted if you show me what Senator Paul had done for this cause. He's very much against Wall Street, right?

I’m really intrigued by these:

S.2598 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Commemorative Coin Act


S.2322 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

Driver Fatigue Prevention Act

:rolleyes2


We'll see if Warren can follow through with the new Glass-Steagall. Rand has done quite a lot in terms of the surveillance state and banking mechanisms.

 

[Ronn]

I’m really intrigued by these:

S.2598 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Commemorative Coin Act


S.2322 — 114th Congress (2015-2016)

Driver Fatigue Prevention Act

:rolleyes2


We'll see if Warren can follow through with the new Glass-Steagall. Rand has done quite a lot in terms of the surveillance state and banking mechanisms.

I can find similar meaningless stuff for any member of congress. You decided to focus on these? I'm shocked!
By the way one of the bills that would make it harder for Wall Street executives to be prosecuted in S.2298 "Mens Rae Reform Act", which basically says if you didn't know what you were doing was harmful, you can't be prosecuted. This is pretty much what 3 credit rating agencies claimed after the crash so I guess this bill will let them off the hook.
Guess who was the cosponsor of that bill?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/2298/cosponsors

 

[Seven]

Depends on what sort of intellectual we need. Obama is considered an intellectual and he's a disaster. Trump can easily attract buffoons, but some of the stuff he "says" are at least on the right track. Of course, that doesn't mean much.

Is Obama that much of a disaster though? Internationally he has certainly done wonders for your image. Domestically I'd say it's probably very difficult to really understand his impact in depth.

 

[swag]

Is Obama that much of a disaster though? Internationally he has certainly done wonders for your image. Domestically I'd say it's probably very difficult to really understand his impact in depth.

America hates intellectuals. We feel our leaders need to be people who are a little dumber but we can drink beer with. It's a thing.

I'm considered a liberal by many here in the US, and I liked William F Buckley, Jr. Go figure.

 

[Bjerknes]

I can find similar meaningless stuff for any member of congress. You decided to focus on these? I'm shocked!
By the way one of the bills that would make it harder for Wall Street executives to be prosecuted in S.2298 "Mens Rae Reform Act", which basically says if you didn't know what you were doing was harmful, you can't be prosecuted. This is pretty much what 3 credit rating agencies claimed after the crash so I guess this bill will let them off the hook.
Guess who was the cosponsor of that bill?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/2298/cosponsors

I don't find anything wrong with this premise.

"No one who is taught that you are innocent until proven guilty in American could imagine we put people in jail for crimes they did not even know they were committing, yet that is exactly what the federal government does. We have to put an end to that practice, and this bill is an important step in that direction,” Senator Paul said.

http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/...ill-to-strengthen-criminal-intent-protections

You can certainly prove criminal intent in banking via all sorts of means, it's just that the regulators pick and choose who they scrutinize. Plus we already have acts such as SOX that all publicly traded firms have to follow, which is monstrous in its breadth. It's actually ridiculous. Rand is also extremely passionate about the problem we face in the overpopulated prisons, which partly stems from ridiculous drug laws and overreaching DA's who always win convictions.

Is Obama that much of a disaster though? Internationally he has certainly done wonders for your image. Domestically I'd say it's probably very difficult to really understand his impact in depth.

Of course as an outsider you'll think that way. You aren't directly impacted by his policies and didn't have any expectations prior to his Presidency. Americans think otherwise and rightfully so. Apart from his long list of failures and atrocious decisions, he makes it worse for himself in how he seems to be a seasoned liar, especially about the economy. Even some hardcore Democrats that voted for him consider him a failure. Thank goodness they do.

America hates intellectuals. We feel our leaders need to be people who are a little dumber but we can drink beer with. It's a thing.

I'm considered a liberal by many here in the US, and I liked William F Buckley, Jr. Go figure.

But you aren't a typical "Liberal"/Democrat by any means, just like I'm not a typical Republican/"Conservative." Hell, I'm not even a Republican.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

 

[Ronn]

I don't find anything wrong with this premise.

"No one who is taught that you are innocent until proven guilty in American could imagine we put people in jail for crimes they did not even know they were committing, yet that is exactly what the federal government does. We have to put an end to that practice, and this bill is an important step in that direction,” Senator Paul said.

http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/...ill-to-strengthen-criminal-intent-protections

You can certainly prove criminal intent in banking via all sorts of means, it's just that the regulators pick and choose who they scrutinize. Plus we already have acts such as SOX that all publicly traded firms have to follow, which is monstrous in its breadth. It's actually ridiculous. Rand is also extremely passionate about the problem we face in the overpopulated prisons, which partly stems from ridiculous drug laws and overreaching DA's who always win convictions.

Problem is not the concept of "Mens Rae", but applying it across the board to all criminal prosecution. It's easy in white collar crime to say that you did not know you're committing a crime. It's even worse in Wall Street, where the whole thing is really complicated. they could have excluded white collar corporate crimes, or choose the areas that they want to adopt "Mens Rae". When you apply it to all prosecutions it makes prosecuting white collar crime harder.
It's good that Rand Paul is concerned with overpopulated prisons, but this bill has little to do with it. Prisons are overpopulated mostly because of petty drug crimes. I doubt anybody can claim they did not know possessing drugs is not a criminal act.

 

[Ocelot]

I don't find anything wrong with this premise.

"No one who is taught that you are innocent until proven guilty in American could imagine we put people in jail for crimes they did not even know they were committing, yet that is exactly what the federal government does. We have to put an end to that practice, and this bill is an important step in that direction,” Senator Paul said.

http://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/...ill-to-strengthen-criminal-intent-protections

You can certainly prove criminal intent in banking via all sorts of means, it's just that the regulators pick and choose who they scrutinize. Plus we already have acts such as SOX that all publicly traded firms have to follow, which is monstrous in its breadth. It's actually ridiculous. Rand is also extremely passionate about the problem we face in the overpopulated prisons, which partly stems from ridiculous drug laws and overreaching DA's who always win convictions.

Well I'm not an expert on law, but ignorantia juris non excusat has been a basic principle of law for centuries.

And even though Obama wasn't perfect by any means, he was easily the best president since at least Bush senior, and only because I don't know enough about the previous terms and presidents to comment. You can only regard him as a failure by applying the insanely high expectations he himself set in his first campaign.

 

[Seven]

Well I'm not an expert on law, but ignorantia juris non excusat has been a basic principle of law for centuries.

And even though Obama wasn't perfect by any means, he was easily the best president since at least Bush senior, and only because I don't know enough about the previous terms and presidents to comment. You can only regard him as a failure by applying the insanely high expectations he himself set in his first campaign.

Depending on the sort of crime you also need a particular kind of intent. So in criminal law sometimes it does matter whether or not you were knowingly committing a crime.

That being said I would guess the bar is set very high for bankers and financial crimes. This is your job, you are expected to know.

 

[Ocelot]

Depending on the sort of crime you also need a particular kind of intent. So in criminal law sometimes it does matter whether or not you were knowingly committing a crime.

That being said I would guess the bar is set very high for bankers and financial crimes. This is your job, you are expected to know.

In terms of guilty/not guilty or in terms of severity of sentence?

 

[Seven]

In terms of guilty/not guilty or in terms of severity of sentence?

In terms of guilty not guilty. Mens rea is a necessary element for it to be seen as a crime.

 

[Ronn]

Depending on the sort of crime you also need a particular kind of intent. So in criminal law sometimes it does matter whether or not you were knowingly committing a crime.

That being said I would guess the bar is set very high for bankers and financial crimes. This is your job, you are expected to know.

Exactly. Treating every crime like the other, and applying this to all types of prosecution is the problem of this bill, not the Mens Rae itself

 

[Ocelot]

This is the best

 

[icemaη]

This is the best

Trevor Noah's best episode till date IMO. He seems to be getting better at this interviewing business. @Osman

 

[Osman]

Lol good to hear, I'm gonna save that to later, I downloaded 23th and 24th Mars episode just now (its perfect show to watch for breakfast/lunch for me).

 

[swag]

I don't think I've actually shared my family true Trump story here before...

So my father who passed away last year... he was an artist. One of his favorite jobs was the illustrations he did for a banknote company. Part of the requirements for listing your stock on the NYSE is that a certain percentage of your shares have to be issued as paper certificates. Requirements for these certificates include a company stock exchange image that includes a human figure, some reproducibility constraints, etc. That's where my dad would come in as an artist.

So he was commissioned by Trump Casinos some 20 years ago or so to do their NYSE stock certificates. He did the artwork, and Trump Casinos came back rejecting his work... saying that he needed to make Donald Trump's image "more handsome" on the stock certificates.

Hey, my dad could only work with the materials he got. So round two he made Donald "more handsome". It was accepted. Attached is the result. Something I came across when going through my father's things when I visited my mom last Christmas.

True story, bro.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Cool story bro

 

[Osman]

Smart move by your father, not to show Trumps hands in his potrait, otherwise he would get mail from Donnie every year to remind your father how manly his hands are.

 

[Bjerknes]

Problem is not the concept of "Mens Rae", but applying it across the board to all criminal prosecution. It's easy in white collar crime to say that you did not know you're committing a crime. It's even worse in Wall Street, where the whole thing is really complicated. they could have excluded white collar corporate crimes, or choose the areas that they want to adopt "Mens Rae". When you apply it to all prosecutions it makes prosecuting white collar crime harder.
It's good that Rand Paul is concerned with overpopulated prisons, but this bill has little to do with it. Prisons are overpopulated mostly because of petty drug crimes. I doubt anybody can claim they did not know possessing drugs is not a criminal act.

The NY Fed and SEC are supposed to regulate Wall Street banks. They have knowledge of trading practices and are adept at spotting instances of insider trading, fraudulent trading practices, et cetera. They can certainly prove intent. The larger issue is that they simply fail to regulate these folks, probably because they're all in cahoots together, which has been proven time and time again by their market operations. So if the regulators choose to overlook certain practices, what's the point?

This can be seen in over industries as well. Take a look at Syriana. That pretty much sums up how these things work in Washington.

Well I'm not an expert on law, but ignorantia juris non excusat has been a basic principle of law for centuries.

And even though Obama wasn't perfect by any means, he was easily the best president since at least Bush senior, and only because I don't know enough about the previous terms and presidents to comment. You can only regard him as a failure by applying the insanely high expectations he himself set in his first campaign.

Oh, come on now. I don't even know what expectations he set himself. The guy is a total joke and fraud. Whether he's worse than Bush or not is irrelevant... they both are awful.

I don't think I've actually shared my family true Trump story here before...

So my father who passed away last year... he was an artist. One of his favorite jobs was the illustrations he did for a banknote company. Part of the requirements for listing your stock on the NYSE is that a certain percentage of your shares have to be issued as paper certificates. Requirements for these certificates include a company stock exchange image that includes a human figure, some reproducibility constraints, etc. That's where my dad would come in as an artist.

So he was commissioned by Trump Casinos some 20 years ago or so to do their NYSE stock certificates. He did the artwork, and Trump Casinos came back rejecting his work... saying that he needed to make Donald Trump's image "more handsome" on the stock certificates.

Hey, my dad could only work with the materials he got. So round two he made Donald "more handsome". It was accepted. Attached is the result. Something I came across when going through my father's things when I visited my mom last Christmas.

True story, bro.

No offense to your pops, but in this one it looks like Trump is taking a hard dump. If that's handsome to Donald, then good for him...