This isnt personal. And I've got no pre-1947 delusional grievances. Both the neighbours, I've realised are the better for it.
Buy on AliExpress.com
Mumbai Shootings (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter .zero
- Start date
This isnt personal. And I've got no pre-1947 delusional grievances. Both the neighbours, I've realised are the better for it.
Buy on AliExpress.com
It's like I said earlier Swagster, there has been a great sense of maturity that you might find at this time. Hindus and Muslims have a united front against terror. In fact, I find this piece to be a very rational and proportioned view of things as they stand. Written by a well respected Muslim journo. Ignore the headline just read the piece.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/02mumterror-pakistan-will-have-to-pay-a-heavy-price.htm
here is what i don't understand:
- pakistan (not necessarily the govt but the country) is known for harboring/protecting terrorists
- i haven't blamed anyone for this, i just repeated what the media (CNN, BBC, AP, etc..) have reported. now if you think those sources are biased then please tell me who i should watch and read to believe.
- its so frequent for ppl on this forum to blame the U.S. govt so openly for anything and everything. why is it that all the paki's on this forum are getting so defensive on this matter? am i the only one who sees the irony of the situation here?
are you guys denying the fact that these terrorists may be from pakistan? you can answer the question both ways in saying they may or may not be. but why get on the defensive on the turn of a dime?
- pakistan (not necessarily the govt but the country) is known for harboring/protecting terrorists
- i haven't blamed anyone for this, i just repeated what the media (CNN, BBC, AP, etc..) have reported. now if you think those sources are biased then please tell me who i should watch and read to believe.
- its so frequent for ppl on this forum to blame the U.S. govt so openly for anything and everything. why is it that all the paki's on this forum are getting so defensive on this matter? am i the only one who sees the irony of the situation here?
are you guys denying the fact that these terrorists may be from pakistan? you can answer the question both ways in saying they may or may not be. but why get on the defensive on the turn of a dime?
Not a bad piece of reading. It encourages me to hear at least platitudes like that, because the survival of India and Pakistan are so intertwined when it comes to terrorism, etc. They are like conjoined twins.
I guess what bothers me most about Pakistan is the apparent weakness and frailty of the central government. India's central government is feeble enough as it is. But I can't help but get the cynical feeling that the teetering Pakistani government publicly condemns U.S. incursions and airstrikes on the Taliban in Waziristan for the local votes -- meanwhile secretly encouraging the U.S. strikes at what they see as a threat and scourge to their survival as a political entity.
A strong central government needs to stand up to evil within its own borders and risk being politically unpopular, regardless of the internal public support among the locals that may want to give it safe harbor. So how does Pakistan get there?
I guess what bothers me most about Pakistan is the apparent weakness and frailty of the central government. India's central government is feeble enough as it is. But I can't help but get the cynical feeling that the teetering Pakistani government publicly condemns U.S. incursions and airstrikes on the Taliban in Waziristan for the local votes -- meanwhile secretly encouraging the U.S. strikes at what they see as a threat and scourge to their survival as a political entity.
A strong central government needs to stand up to evil within its own borders and risk being politically unpopular, regardless of the internal public support among the locals that may want to give it safe harbor. So how does Pakistan get there?
and I don't appreciate rumours and innuendo from someone who has absolutely no proof that Pakistan was behind this attack...you're talking about Dawood Ibrahim, go read up about a guy called Altaf Hussain, who is a known RAW asset and his MQM thugs have divided Karachi and made it into a war zone...the Indian media has already backed down significantly from its outrageous claims of 2 days ago...and India is exercising restraint? 
they have too much to lose and will never look to strike at Pakistan...there is something knows as a nuclear deterrent, go read up about it...it is obvious to everyone else but the Indian people and media that the guy is feeding you what everyone wants to hear, hell we don't even know if he even said all that is being stated...all the channels are simple saying "we have heard from our sources", which counts for shit
they have too much to lose and will never look to strike at Pakistan...there is something knows as a nuclear deterrent, go read up about it...it is obvious to everyone else but the Indian people and media that the guy is feeding you what everyone wants to hear, hell we don't even know if he even said all that is being stated...all the channels are simple saying "we have heard from our sources", which counts for shitMumbai Terrorists Were Aided By Indian Authorities
Series of specific warnings ignored, security measures relaxed, police refused to shoot back
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, December 2, 2008
Numerous disturbing details now strongly indicate that the terrorists who indiscriminately slaughtered nearly 200 people in Mumbai were aided by some elements of the Indian security apparatus responsible for protecting the city.
It has now been confirmed that the Indian security services received numerous precise warnings that terrorists were planning to arrive by sea and attack the Taj Mahal hotel, but if anything security was relaxed, allowing the terrorists to prolong the attack for days and not hours.
The CIA’s station chief in Delhi told Indian intelligence in September that terrorists were planning to arrive via the sea and attack the Taj Mahal hotel with small arms and/or bombs. Security measures around the hotel were increased in response to the warning but relaxed just days before the attack.
This was just one of a “series of warnings of a possible attack on Mumbai by sea in the months leading up to last week’s devastating onslaught,” reports AFP.
Many Indians are furious at the botched response that allowed the attacks to drag on for days and are incredulous at eyewitness reports of Indian police refusing to fire back at the terrorists as they carried out their rampage with AK-47’s, forcing gangs of citizens to go hand to hand with the armed assailants.
(ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW)
Was a stand down issue ordered or were there terrorists within the police units? Sebastian D’Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror, took many of the now infamous photos of the terrorists, but his main concern at the time was the fact that armed police would not shoot at the terrorists despite them being sitting ducks.
“What angered Mr D’Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back,” reports the Belfast Telegraph. “There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything,” he said. “At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they’re sitting ducks!’ but they just didn’t shoot back.”
“As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D’Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. “I couldn’t believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn’t run, we told them to stay put.”
India’s warmongering rhetoric against Pakistan is partly a steam valve to deflect from the fact that they were given a specific warning that this would happen and not only failed to prevent it, but let the whole thing drag out for days.
An obvious effort to pin the blame on Lashkar-e-Toiba and by extension Pakistan, despite the terrorist group’s flat denial of responsibility, is now encapsulated by the suspected manufacturing of evidence.
Satellite phones and identity documents linking the attack to Pakistanis was conveniently discovered by the Indians just as the flight manuals and the paper passports of the hijackers were found immediately after 9/11.
Unsurprisingly, the Indians killed all but one of the terrorists, a clean cut English speaking Pakistani, Azam Amir Qasab, who is singing from the same hymn sheet as the Indians implicating Pakistan and saying he was trained by Pakistan. The corporate media has swallowed the story hook line and sinker, refusing to even raise the prospect that such a confession was obtained through torture.
Again we ask the question, what on earth would Pakistan, who have been making strenuous peace overtures towards India recently, possibly have to gain from sponsoring a brutal attack against innocent civilians the full horror of which is played out on international television for all to see? How can it possibly benefit Pakistan to now have the full might of the U.S. military, with an incoming president who’s made it very clear that he’s fully prepared to expand the bombing raids, trained on Pakistan, along with the suspicion of the rest of the world?
How can that possibly be of any benefit? This wasn’t an attack on the Parliament building. This wasn’t an attempt to decapitate government in any way - it was an indiscriminate assault on innocent people going about their business at hotels, restaurants and subways. It was a senseless massacre that will ultimately help the geopolitical agenda of nobody other than the Indians and the U.S., who now have the perfect pretext to expand bombing raids in Pakistan and entrench themselves in Afghanistan.
As soon as attack in Mumbai began to unfold, despite confusion as to its perpetrators and its motive, U.S. aircraft carriers were moving towards the Pakistan border.
As we predicted right from the beginning, no matter who the real perpetrators were, the attack was always going to be blamed on Pakistan as a means of re-igniting a nuclear cold war that reaped massive profits for the military-industrial complex who armed both sides the last time such tensions peaked at the start of the decade
Series of specific warnings ignored, security measures relaxed, police refused to shoot back
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, December 2, 2008
Numerous disturbing details now strongly indicate that the terrorists who indiscriminately slaughtered nearly 200 people in Mumbai were aided by some elements of the Indian security apparatus responsible for protecting the city.
It has now been confirmed that the Indian security services received numerous precise warnings that terrorists were planning to arrive by sea and attack the Taj Mahal hotel, but if anything security was relaxed, allowing the terrorists to prolong the attack for days and not hours.
The CIA’s station chief in Delhi told Indian intelligence in September that terrorists were planning to arrive via the sea and attack the Taj Mahal hotel with small arms and/or bombs. Security measures around the hotel were increased in response to the warning but relaxed just days before the attack.
This was just one of a “series of warnings of a possible attack on Mumbai by sea in the months leading up to last week’s devastating onslaught,” reports AFP.
Many Indians are furious at the botched response that allowed the attacks to drag on for days and are incredulous at eyewitness reports of Indian police refusing to fire back at the terrorists as they carried out their rampage with AK-47’s, forcing gangs of citizens to go hand to hand with the armed assailants.
(ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW)
Was a stand down issue ordered or were there terrorists within the police units? Sebastian D’Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror, took many of the now infamous photos of the terrorists, but his main concern at the time was the fact that armed police would not shoot at the terrorists despite them being sitting ducks.
“What angered Mr D’Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back,” reports the Belfast Telegraph. “There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything,” he said. “At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they’re sitting ducks!’ but they just didn’t shoot back.”
“As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D’Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. “I couldn’t believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn’t run, we told them to stay put.”
India’s warmongering rhetoric against Pakistan is partly a steam valve to deflect from the fact that they were given a specific warning that this would happen and not only failed to prevent it, but let the whole thing drag out for days.
An obvious effort to pin the blame on Lashkar-e-Toiba and by extension Pakistan, despite the terrorist group’s flat denial of responsibility, is now encapsulated by the suspected manufacturing of evidence.
Satellite phones and identity documents linking the attack to Pakistanis was conveniently discovered by the Indians just as the flight manuals and the paper passports of the hijackers were found immediately after 9/11.
Unsurprisingly, the Indians killed all but one of the terrorists, a clean cut English speaking Pakistani, Azam Amir Qasab, who is singing from the same hymn sheet as the Indians implicating Pakistan and saying he was trained by Pakistan. The corporate media has swallowed the story hook line and sinker, refusing to even raise the prospect that such a confession was obtained through torture.
Again we ask the question, what on earth would Pakistan, who have been making strenuous peace overtures towards India recently, possibly have to gain from sponsoring a brutal attack against innocent civilians the full horror of which is played out on international television for all to see? How can it possibly benefit Pakistan to now have the full might of the U.S. military, with an incoming president who’s made it very clear that he’s fully prepared to expand the bombing raids, trained on Pakistan, along with the suspicion of the rest of the world?
How can that possibly be of any benefit? This wasn’t an attack on the Parliament building. This wasn’t an attempt to decapitate government in any way - it was an indiscriminate assault on innocent people going about their business at hotels, restaurants and subways. It was a senseless massacre that will ultimately help the geopolitical agenda of nobody other than the Indians and the U.S., who now have the perfect pretext to expand bombing raids in Pakistan and entrench themselves in Afghanistan.
As soon as attack in Mumbai began to unfold, despite confusion as to its perpetrators and its motive, U.S. aircraft carriers were moving towards the Pakistan border.
As we predicted right from the beginning, no matter who the real perpetrators were, the attack was always going to be blamed on Pakistan as a means of re-igniting a nuclear cold war that reaped massive profits for the military-industrial complex who armed both sides the last time such tensions peaked at the start of the decade
'Rot' at heart of Indian intelligence
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Mumbai
The blame game over who was responsible for bloody terror attacks in the western Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) has a sense of déjà vu about it.
Security experts have criticised the response to the attacks, which left nearly 200 people dead, as "amateurish, sluggish and feeble".
Indian intelligence agencies are leaking information that they gave about half a dozen warnings to the government in Maharashtra state - of which Mumbai is the capital.
The reports say Maharashtra was warned that strikes were being planned on city landmarks, including, possibly, the Taj Mahal hotel at the historic Gateway of India.
Authorities in Mumbai flatly deny that they received any tip-offs. "It is unimaginable that we would have got this sensitive information and not react," says state Interior Secretary Chitkala Zutshi.
Knee-jerk responses
But security experts confirm that information extracted from a group of Indian and Pakistani men arrested in northern India earlier this year revealed that some men belonging to Pakistan-based groups had done a reconnaissance of major landmarks in Mumbai. The agencies had also been picking up militant chatter on attacks in the city.
Yet the local police and intelligence agencies appeared to have failed to act on any of the information - despite doubts as to whether the information was shared promptly enough between the Mumbai authorities.
This is a story which keeps repeating itself in a country which has been hit by over half a dozen big "terror attacks" this year - the central and local security authorities trade charges over the sharing and quality of intelligence, followed by knee-jerk responses and investigations which fizzle out in a couple of years.
The attacks and their aftermath again point to the rot that has set into the country's internal security system and a lack of cohesion between civilian and security wings of the government.
One telling example: six days after the attack, even the number of dead and injured keeps going up and down, due to poor co-ordination between the police and hospitals.
More seriously, the Indian police appear to be incapacitated by a lack of money and training. Poor working conditions, rudimentary surveillance and communications equipment, inadequate forensic science laboratories and outdated weaponry are making matters worse.
"The Mumbai attacks prove that the whole system is falling apart. The police in India are working on manpower and equipment assessments last made in the 1970s," says security analyst Praveen Swami.
The fact that the gunmen came by sea - and sneaked into the city through a crowded fishing colony - points to almost non-existent coastal police patrols, as a local officer admits.
All that the police have is a couple of launches. They have no radar.
The Mumbai police - like most police in India - remain in a time warp: they are equipped with World War II vintage rifles and carbines handed down by the army. In most states, an average policeman's salary and status is equivalent to that of an unskilled municipal worker, encouraging corruption.
Inadequate protection
Budgets do not extend to supplying food to police personnel on shift, so many end up extorting food from street hawkers. They also routinely hitch free rides because they don't have enough vehicles.
Bullet proof vests are of inferior quality and phone interception equipment remains largely rudimentary.
And three years after the central government announced the setting up an ambitious National Police Mission to set out the future needs and requirements of the force, nothing has happened.
India's commando forces are also not exactly in good shape.
A group of the elite 7,400-strong National Security Guards (NSG) - who were flown in to Mumbai eight hours after the attacks - is based near the capital, Delhi. Many of the commandos, say experts, are wasted in giving protection to politicians and other VIPs.
The country's best commando force does not have its own aircraft. As a result, it has become used to spending hours reaching crisis locations, with mixed results.
"On average, the commando force has taken six to seven hours to reach and begin their operations and get their act together every time they have been called for. There have been delays," says Praveen Swami.
He says the commandos have been trained to rescue small groups of people. "They have not been trained on multiple location operations of such scale."
'No way to fight terrorism'
Any deficiencies in their training may be explained by the fact that a Mumbai-type attack only happens very rarely.
That is why Indian security experts like Ajai Sahni say that the response to the attacks was so poor.
"This is no way to fight terrorism," he says.
After the Mumbai attacks, the local government announced it would set up a state commando force: to begin with, some 500 armed men would be ready in four months.
This, when the basic training for the NSG commandos takes six months. And Maharashtra, along with other states, has no commando training centres.
A number of states where there have been attacks by Maoist rebels plan to raise their own commando forces, but early results point to hasty, faulty planning.
The authorities in eastern Orissa state, for example, hired 8,000 new policemen for anti-Maoist operations, but found to their dismay that it took six months to train just 350 of them.
There are allegations that many of the candidates paid bribes to get into the force.
Painfully slow and lazy bureaucracy means that the modernisation of the security forces often takes ages. Police in Uttar Pradesh state took four years to buy imported surveillance equipment.
By the time it arrived, it had become outdated and now lies disused. One police official even paid by his own credit card to pick up a piece of $60 equipment from a foreign website for his forces because it would have taken him months, if not years, to acquire it.
With their bureaucratic ways of working, the intelligence agencies are also struggling.
There is a dearth of language specialists. India's spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), is reported by insiders to have only two Arabic and two Chinese language specialists, hired from language schools.
But the best do not stay on because of poor wages, and one of the Chinese language specialists who was trained in cyber-technology quit to join one of India's top industrial groups.
"Things have to begin from scratch to boost internal security in India. Authorities should come clean to the people and tell them how bad the situation is and set time-bound targets to begin improving security infrastructure," says Praveen Swami.
Otherwise, he warns, India will continue to be one of the softest targets for terror strikes in the world.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/7760460.stm
By Soutik Biswas
BBC News, Mumbai
The blame game over who was responsible for bloody terror attacks in the western Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) has a sense of déjà vu about it.
Security experts have criticised the response to the attacks, which left nearly 200 people dead, as "amateurish, sluggish and feeble".
Indian intelligence agencies are leaking information that they gave about half a dozen warnings to the government in Maharashtra state - of which Mumbai is the capital.
The reports say Maharashtra was warned that strikes were being planned on city landmarks, including, possibly, the Taj Mahal hotel at the historic Gateway of India.
Authorities in Mumbai flatly deny that they received any tip-offs. "It is unimaginable that we would have got this sensitive information and not react," says state Interior Secretary Chitkala Zutshi.
Knee-jerk responses
But security experts confirm that information extracted from a group of Indian and Pakistani men arrested in northern India earlier this year revealed that some men belonging to Pakistan-based groups had done a reconnaissance of major landmarks in Mumbai. The agencies had also been picking up militant chatter on attacks in the city.
Yet the local police and intelligence agencies appeared to have failed to act on any of the information - despite doubts as to whether the information was shared promptly enough between the Mumbai authorities.
This is a story which keeps repeating itself in a country which has been hit by over half a dozen big "terror attacks" this year - the central and local security authorities trade charges over the sharing and quality of intelligence, followed by knee-jerk responses and investigations which fizzle out in a couple of years.
The attacks and their aftermath again point to the rot that has set into the country's internal security system and a lack of cohesion between civilian and security wings of the government.
One telling example: six days after the attack, even the number of dead and injured keeps going up and down, due to poor co-ordination between the police and hospitals.
More seriously, the Indian police appear to be incapacitated by a lack of money and training. Poor working conditions, rudimentary surveillance and communications equipment, inadequate forensic science laboratories and outdated weaponry are making matters worse.
"The Mumbai attacks prove that the whole system is falling apart. The police in India are working on manpower and equipment assessments last made in the 1970s," says security analyst Praveen Swami.
The fact that the gunmen came by sea - and sneaked into the city through a crowded fishing colony - points to almost non-existent coastal police patrols, as a local officer admits.
All that the police have is a couple of launches. They have no radar.
The Mumbai police - like most police in India - remain in a time warp: they are equipped with World War II vintage rifles and carbines handed down by the army. In most states, an average policeman's salary and status is equivalent to that of an unskilled municipal worker, encouraging corruption.
Inadequate protection
Budgets do not extend to supplying food to police personnel on shift, so many end up extorting food from street hawkers. They also routinely hitch free rides because they don't have enough vehicles.
Bullet proof vests are of inferior quality and phone interception equipment remains largely rudimentary.
And three years after the central government announced the setting up an ambitious National Police Mission to set out the future needs and requirements of the force, nothing has happened.
India's commando forces are also not exactly in good shape.
A group of the elite 7,400-strong National Security Guards (NSG) - who were flown in to Mumbai eight hours after the attacks - is based near the capital, Delhi. Many of the commandos, say experts, are wasted in giving protection to politicians and other VIPs.
The country's best commando force does not have its own aircraft. As a result, it has become used to spending hours reaching crisis locations, with mixed results.
"On average, the commando force has taken six to seven hours to reach and begin their operations and get their act together every time they have been called for. There have been delays," says Praveen Swami.
He says the commandos have been trained to rescue small groups of people. "They have not been trained on multiple location operations of such scale."
'No way to fight terrorism'
Any deficiencies in their training may be explained by the fact that a Mumbai-type attack only happens very rarely.
That is why Indian security experts like Ajai Sahni say that the response to the attacks was so poor.
"This is no way to fight terrorism," he says.
After the Mumbai attacks, the local government announced it would set up a state commando force: to begin with, some 500 armed men would be ready in four months.
This, when the basic training for the NSG commandos takes six months. And Maharashtra, along with other states, has no commando training centres.
A number of states where there have been attacks by Maoist rebels plan to raise their own commando forces, but early results point to hasty, faulty planning.
The authorities in eastern Orissa state, for example, hired 8,000 new policemen for anti-Maoist operations, but found to their dismay that it took six months to train just 350 of them.
There are allegations that many of the candidates paid bribes to get into the force.
Painfully slow and lazy bureaucracy means that the modernisation of the security forces often takes ages. Police in Uttar Pradesh state took four years to buy imported surveillance equipment.
By the time it arrived, it had become outdated and now lies disused. One police official even paid by his own credit card to pick up a piece of $60 equipment from a foreign website for his forces because it would have taken him months, if not years, to acquire it.
With their bureaucratic ways of working, the intelligence agencies are also struggling.
There is a dearth of language specialists. India's spy agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), is reported by insiders to have only two Arabic and two Chinese language specialists, hired from language schools.
But the best do not stay on because of poor wages, and one of the Chinese language specialists who was trained in cyber-technology quit to join one of India's top industrial groups.
"Things have to begin from scratch to boost internal security in India. Authorities should come clean to the people and tell them how bad the situation is and set time-bound targets to begin improving security infrastructure," says Praveen Swami.
Otherwise, he warns, India will continue to be one of the softest targets for terror strikes in the world.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/7760460.stm
Okay, here we go now.
Ahmed, the article you posted is from Prison Planet, a website ran by American commentator and truth finder Alex Jones. This man is deemed by many as an absolute lunatic for some of his views, including how he truly believes that the Illuminati exist and the 9/11 attacks were an inside job by the United States government. Moreover, he also believes some governmental body is trying to use different sort of mind-control effects to set us up for possible future enslavement in some form. While most people believe he's a crazed conspiracry theorist, a few take notice of what he says, including myself. He has been correct on different events in history, including how he predicted the 9/11 attacks.
Alex Jones has a radio show, and I actually listened to it last night. The author of the article you posted, Paul Watson, was one of the people he had on the show discussing the attacks. The YouTube link below is where Watson begins to speak, and I believe the discussion continues to part 4/4 which can be found on the right.
Now, I don't know how much credibility Paul Watson has. But the Alex Jones show is a very, VERY controversial show here in the States, and I actually think he's doing a service discussing these "conspiracy theories" that may or may not be true. He has a lot of credible guests on his show, so before anybody dismisses him as some lunatic, think about how this current financial collapse "conspiracy theory" was laughed off about a year ago.
Ahmed, the article you posted is from Prison Planet, a website ran by American commentator and truth finder Alex Jones. This man is deemed by many as an absolute lunatic for some of his views, including how he truly believes that the Illuminati exist and the 9/11 attacks were an inside job by the United States government. Moreover, he also believes some governmental body is trying to use different sort of mind-control effects to set us up for possible future enslavement in some form. While most people believe he's a crazed conspiracry theorist, a few take notice of what he says, including myself. He has been correct on different events in history, including how he predicted the 9/11 attacks.
Alex Jones has a radio show, and I actually listened to it last night. The author of the article you posted, Paul Watson, was one of the people he had on the show discussing the attacks. The YouTube link below is where Watson begins to speak, and I believe the discussion continues to part 4/4 which can be found on the right.
Now, I don't know how much credibility Paul Watson has. But the Alex Jones show is a very, VERY controversial show here in the States, and I actually think he's doing a service discussing these "conspiracy theories" that may or may not be true. He has a lot of credible guests on his show, so before anybody dismisses him as some lunatic, think about how this current financial collapse "conspiracy theory" was laughed off about a year ago.
thanks for the background Andy...what bothers me is the insistence of the Indian media on blaming Pakistan...they are refusing to look at the massive intelligence failures of multiple Indian agencies and organisations...a lot of them are highlighted in Ze's post right above ours...and another example is the Taj Hotel siege...it took the NSG forces sixty hours to get control of the hotel which was being held hostage by three extremists...I am no military expert, but that sounds like really bad execution of a plan on the part of the NSG forces
THAT is what is the most aggravating thing...India has been hurt bad, and yes they have the right to be angry and are looking for revenge...but these knee-jerk reactions and accusations don't help anyone and only make the situation more volatile, in an already combustible environment...the people are being told what they want to hear and are simply refusing to look at the faults of their own system...why do that when it is so much easier to blame someone else
One man's conspiracy theory is another's reality.
The Indians right now who are doubting their own media are probably seen by the normal Indian population as "conspiracy theorists." The Pakistanis who believe their government is to blame are probably labeled even worse. So who is correct here? Ahh, but of course, at least one "conspiracy theorist."
It seems like you can't trust anybody anymore.
The Indians right now who are doubting their own media are probably seen by the normal Indian population as "conspiracy theorists." The Pakistanis who believe their government is to blame are probably labeled even worse. So who is correct here? Ahh, but of course, at least one "conspiracy theorist."
It seems like you can't trust anybody anymore.
Im not going to quote every post by Baggio this time.
Firslt,he keeps on bringing the ISI connection into this.You really expect the captured dotards to tell you the truth about their origins?And plus they speak Pashto.The fact about Pashto makes your argument even weaker,since the language itself is spoken in the north of Pakistan,and the probability of a pashto speaker being from FATA,Wazirstan etc is very high - areas which the whole world knows are very hard to control.
Lets assume that the person WAS infact trained by the ISI.But wait..didnt you use the term 'Ex ISI' officer?Even if you dont give a fuck about wether the ISI officer in question is currently serving or not,wouldnt the oh-so-intelligent captured guy tell you the name of the officer in question too?Going by your side of things,no he wouldnt,because you are hell bent on proving how the country you claim wanting brotherly relations with is responsible for this.You hear the words ISI and Karachi,and there..your mind stops functioning beyond anything other than blaming Pakistan.You conveniently ignore everything about how a country in the center of all terrorist activites,a country that has suffered most at the hands of these terrorists..why would such a country want to inflict the same mess on a nuclear neighbour?Were you blind to begin with,or has the propganda triggered by your media blinded you?
Im not even getting int Dawood Ibrahim.Suely,if you're such an ardent believer of what the media states,then the media also states that he isnt hiding in Pakistan,or has no support from Pakistan.Why dont you believe that?Oh wait..this statement doesnt target Pakistan.Everything that targets Pakistan is believable.Everything that defends Pakistan is bullshit.A very convenient Indian way of describing things.Iceman,an Indian,refused to have a go at Pakistan the way you did,and you thought you'd have a go at him instead.Sweet.
Indian fanatacism at its best?Most probably yes.
@Dru.
I'll get defensive everytime someone will have a go at Pakistan based on his biased opinions.,which is what Baggio's doing here.He is SO fucking obsessed with Pakistan right now,that he's refusing to look at other possibilities,which are much more logical than the one's that have messed his mind up.
Firslt,he keeps on bringing the ISI connection into this.You really expect the captured dotards to tell you the truth about their origins?And plus they speak Pashto.The fact about Pashto makes your argument even weaker,since the language itself is spoken in the north of Pakistan,and the probability of a pashto speaker being from FATA,Wazirstan etc is very high - areas which the whole world knows are very hard to control.
Lets assume that the person WAS infact trained by the ISI.But wait..didnt you use the term 'Ex ISI' officer?Even if you dont give a fuck about wether the ISI officer in question is currently serving or not,wouldnt the oh-so-intelligent captured guy tell you the name of the officer in question too?Going by your side of things,no he wouldnt,because you are hell bent on proving how the country you claim wanting brotherly relations with is responsible for this.You hear the words ISI and Karachi,and there..your mind stops functioning beyond anything other than blaming Pakistan.You conveniently ignore everything about how a country in the center of all terrorist activites,a country that has suffered most at the hands of these terrorists..why would such a country want to inflict the same mess on a nuclear neighbour?Were you blind to begin with,or has the propganda triggered by your media blinded you?
Im not even getting int Dawood Ibrahim.Suely,if you're such an ardent believer of what the media states,then the media also states that he isnt hiding in Pakistan,or has no support from Pakistan.Why dont you believe that?Oh wait..this statement doesnt target Pakistan.Everything that targets Pakistan is believable.Everything that defends Pakistan is bullshit.A very convenient Indian way of describing things.Iceman,an Indian,refused to have a go at Pakistan the way you did,and you thought you'd have a go at him instead.Sweet.
Indian fanatacism at its best?Most probably yes.
@Dru.
I'll get defensive everytime someone will have a go at Pakistan based on his biased opinions.,which is what Baggio's doing here.He is SO fucking obsessed with Pakistan right now,that he's refusing to look at other possibilities,which are much more logical than the one's that have messed his mind up.
