Mumbai Shootings (2 Viewers)

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
Guys. Guys. Guys. You'll need to understand that I only came to this thread after the investigations had begun. I neither initiated it, nor got involved straight after the attacks happened. FYI, before investigations begun I didnt even think it to be Pakistan or the LeT. I was wondering it to be the Al Qaida because of the level of co-ordination that helped penetrate the targets. I've only gotten in here after the investigations had begun. And truth be told, you cant be blaming these views for what's being said on our side of the border.

I'm completely put off with what's being said in the Pakistani media too. Did you guys happen to see the youtube link I posted up earlier? It's just frustrating to see that there is absolutely no sense of understanding in Pakistan toward what is occuring here, even though Salman had rightly stated earlier that there's a lot goes on there as well. Instead, Pakistan and its media are saying these attacks are orchestrated by us to gain world favour. And even demarcated it as a Hindu attack. The issue here, or for me at least has never been a Hindu-Muslim one. It's been Indo-Pak. I'm blaming our politicians before I'm blaming our neighbours.

But with them showing such vehement denial despite the evidence at hand, we're never going to be able to sort out the broader issue that exists in the sub-continent without warfare. And with the attitude that all of us have at this point, it's going to be the only answer. For better or worse.


PS: Ze and Ahmed, how many of those extremist and separatist groups you'll have listed, have carried out attacks on the level, regularity and scale the LeT has carried out here? Salman keeps going on about an ex ISI and not current, who hasnt been named? Dude seriously, do you think the ISI doesnt have or is incapable of tracking the movements of its own people? Your government and intelligence agency is responsible for the people who live on your soil. If they're not doing anything to eradicate these elements at the cost of their own lives and those of their people, then they have to take ownership in large part for the volatile environment in the sub continent.
 

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baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
India and Pakistan both, theoretically, could have taken actions to help prevent it. Neither did.


I agree. But do realise, the regularity of risk to human lives is something that's pre-empted, and executed in ways that are very hard to decipher and create a defense for. No matter how evolved a state's machinery is. That's no justification for the fact that we need to be alloting our taxes to National Security instead of funding greedy, incompetent and unqualified politicians.
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
Guys. Guys. Guys. You'll need to understand that I only came to this thread after the investigations had begun. I neither initiated it, nor got involved straight after the attacks happened. FYI, before investigations begun I didnt even think it to be Pakistan or the LeT. I was wondering it to be the Al Qaida because of the level of co-ordination that helped penetrate the targets. I've only gotten in here after the investigations had begun. And truth be told, you cant be blaming these views for what's being said on our side of the border.

I'm completely put off with what's being said in the Pakistani media too. Did you guys happen to see the youtube link I posted up earlier? It's just frustrating to see that there is absolutely no sense of understanding in Pakistan toward what is occuring here, even though Salman had rightly stated earlier that there's a lot goes on there as well. Instead, Pakistan and its media are saying these attacks are orchestrated by us to gain world favour. And even demarcated it as a Hindu attack. The issue here, or for me at least has never been a Hindu-Muslim one. It's been Indo-Pak. I'm blaming our politicians before I'm blaming our neighbours.

But with them showing such vehement denial despite the evidence at hand, we're never going to be able to sort out the broader issue that exists in the sub-continent without warfare. And with the attitude that all of us have at this point, it's going to be the only answer. For better or worse.


PS: Ze and Ahmed, how many of those extremist and separatist groups you'll have listed, have carried out attacks on the level, regularity and scale the LeT has carried out here? Salman keeps going on about an ex ISI and not current, who hasnt been named? Dude seriously, do you think the ISI doesnt have or is incapable of tracking the movements of its own people? Your government and intelligence agency is responsible for the people who live on your soil. If they're not doing anything to eradicate these elements at the cost of their own lives and those of their people, then they have to take ownership in large part for the volatile environment in the sub continent.
gotta love the softer stance...and why should we not believe the guy in youtube video? he serves our purposes, he gives our PoV and suits our mentality

(does that remind you of someone)
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
Indian fanatacism at its best?Most probably yes.

Your choice of words is better suited to your government and the imbeciles that represent and apparently defend your country. And I dont think my views on the issue will change unless there is total and absolute co-operation by Zardari, Gilani and co. It's a fucking joke.

We pointed out that the LeT was involved. I think to one of them, to which he replied that they needed specifics. Sounded pretty specific to me.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,968
The main question here is; what is a thread like this doing on a football forum??
Personally, one of the things I like about these forums is that you have people from all walks of life. It's great to get perspectives of people I otherwise don't come into contact with on a regular basis.

And all the better if they are also wearing black and white. :D
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
gotta love the softer stance...and why should we not believe the guy in youtube video? he serves our purposes, he gives our PoV and suits our mentality

(does that remind you of someone)

This isnt personal Ahmed, so I never meant to sound like a hardliner. It was totally uncalled for, on your part to bring in the Mission Istanbul comment. Have to admit that set me off. You know exactly how angry we are this time, and the word you chose in one of your earlier posts: revenge, is not how we're articulating it. We dont want revenge. We want answers from our government. And yours.

How can you compare the people in the media and a terrorist captured alive? Surely the differences end there. The mediator on the PAK news channel was fucking mumbling while blaming India because she dint have any claims to substantiate. What we're saying here is, you want evidence, we're giving it to you. Now co-operate, but all that's happening at the other end is more beating around the bush. And trust me, we are showing restraint. It's taking a lot out of us at this point, but we are.
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
This isnt personal Ahmed, so I never meant to sound like a hardliner. I have to admit it was totally uncalled for, on your part to bring in the Mission Istanbul comment. Have to admit that set me off. You know exactly how angry we are this time, and the word you chose in one of your earlier posts: revenge, is not how we're articulating it. We dont want revenge. We want answers from our government. And yours.

How can you compare the people in the media and a terrorist captured alive? Surely the differences end there. The mediator on the PAK news channel was fucking mumbling while blaming India because she dint have any claims to substantiate. What we're saying here is, you want evidence, we're giving it to you. Now co-operate, but all that's happening at the other end is more beating around the bush. And trust me, we are showing restraint. It's taking a lot out of us at this point, but we are.
fantastic, we should be worried about what sets you off, but threatening a country of 160 million people with war should be replied with peaceful and serene dialogue...and let me say this again, GET YOUR OWN AFFAIRS IN ORDER BEFORE YOU DEMAND ANSWERS FROM PAKISTAN...investigate your own govt. and agencies and share the EVIDENCE before you make your accusations
 

icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
36,520
Read excerpts from an interview of Zardari by Larry King today... He asked India to give evidence, and that he'll arrest the accused... But when asked if they'd sent the accused to India, he said that they'd be tried in Pakistan's courts... Thats kinda lame, considering the crimes (if commited by the accused) were commited in India...

Question to each one of you... Try and answer in a word or two...
Q. What according to you is the lowest level of terrorism? I'll just make the question a little bit more clear... If terrorism was a big structure created using lego blocks of various sizes, what is the smallest lego block (according to you)?
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
in that case please send the convicted ex-Indian Army Lt. Prohit , who was complicit in the Samjhota Express fire-bombing to Pakistan...68 Pakistanis were also burnt alive in that attack...and guess who arrested and was investigating him? you guessed it, the late Mr. Hermant Karkare

A. I will redirect to Tahir :p
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
fantastic, we should be worried about what sets you off, but threatening a country of 160 million people with war should be replied with peaceful and serene dialogue...and let me say this again, GET YOUR OWN AFFAIRS IN ORDER BEFORE YOU DEMAND ANSWERS FROM PAKISTAN...investigate your own govt. and agencies and share the EVIDENCE before you make your accusations

You do realise, that we'll be handing you the evidence alongwith the list of most wanted terrorists? ;) And then let the world decide, whose got their affairs in order. And whose not.
 

baggio

Senior Member
Jun 3, 2003
19,250
Excerpts from the interview Iceman was referring to. They'll try the requested people in Pakistani courts if evidence is provided instead of handing them over? No agenda there I'm guessing, just protocol. :rolleyes:

Zardari rejected India's demand that Islamabad [Images] hand over some 20 suspects, believed to be in Pakistan, saying: "If we had proof, we would try them in our courts. We would try them in our land and we would sentence them."

Defending Pakistan's intelligence agencies accused of providing support to the militants, Zardari said in the past, lots of mistakes have been made, but the present government does not support any such action. "I can assure the world from my side, from my Army's side, from my parliament's side and the people of Pakistan that we are not helping any such activity," he added.
 

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