More players for next season . (54 Viewers)

[Falafel]

We don´t know how much we will spend yet, these are only rumours. And what´s the point in getting money from Camoranesi and Trezeguet when we will have to fill their shoes, so that bascially leaves us at the same point.



Nice try.

i edited my post
i was being sarcastic

 

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[Marc]

i edited my post
i was being sarcastic

 

[tonykart]

Yes but Samuel has won a Scudetto with Roma, which is, I hate to say it as I remember Totti's words, worth like 3 Scudetto's with Juventus or Milan. Samuel is a world class centre back, proven and experienced in ALL competitions. So Cannavaro who has failed at 2 different clubs now is also a failure, bad defender, what is he/they? They are still world class players, you don't loose quality like that but you gotta gain it.

Oh and Barzagli is yet to fail? Are you freaking kidding me? What has he achieved anyway? Over a hundred goals in his net for 2 seasons?

And your opinion on EPL is a complete stereotype and is complete nonsense. Ferdinand and Vidic would walk into any defense at the world this moment, not to mention John Terry for example. There are good defenders outside of Serie A.


I'm sorry but it's a fair description, he is unproven in every single sense of the word. Barza=potential, that's all and potential is not always fullfilled.

Yes, spending reasonable money on proven players for our weakest department is what we should be doing. We are not in a position to take a gamble on anyone.

And please don't play that WC card, Italy would have been champions with or without him, he wasn't exactly crucial.

Stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason. Most of them are true, and this one is. Aggressive defending doesn't cut it in Serie A. Intelligence and team play are far more valuabe than attacking an incomming striker before backup has arrived. I am not impressed with EPL defenders. Terry is good in the EPL and is a great leader, but that doesn't mean he could come to Italy and be the same. It is a whole different game. You call it a sterotype but the fact is that teams in the EPL bang the ball forward quickly fire shots on net every chance they get while defenders get into 1 on 1 situations repeatedly. Ignorance to that fact is not the key to winning a dispute.

BTW 1 scudetto is 1 scudetto. Roma had a very good season and Samuel was good for them. Cannavaro didn't fail at Inter. He was a regular starter, as he is at Real Madrid.

Barzagli is yet to fail. Goal differentials aren't a reflection of 1 defender. Weak point. BTW, is my grandpa still playing keeper for Palermo? Barza does equal potential, but even now he is very good and his potential is extraordinarily high.

No one is Proven until they put on the Juve shirt and prove themselves. Anyone can come here and fail as many "proven" players have done in the past. With Juve or with other teams.

Anyone we pickup is a gamble except Cannavaro or Zambrotta. Guys who have been here, been successful and can come back and fit right back into their slots. Everything for Juve is a gamble at this point. We need to put our chips on the right guy with the future in mind. I think the right guy is Barzagli.

 

[tonykart]

We don´t know how much we will spend yet, these are only rumours. And what´s the point in getting money from Camoranesi and Trezeguet when we will have to fill their shoes, so that bascially leaves us at the same point.



Nice try.

Because they want out so we should get money from them. Between Sali and Marchi we have two right side midfielders. Seems like we kinda took early precautions. Might say something about the future. Trez will be tough to replace he is awesome and Pizarro is hardly and adequate replacement. It is always tough to replace a great CF like him. But we have to none the less.

 

[flieeeekke]

samuel>barzagli>heinze

simple as that.

 

[Alex66]

but as mark said 20 million is too much price for Barzagli !

 

[V]

Stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason. Most of them are true, and this one is. Aggressive defending doesn't cut it in Serie A. Intelligence and team play are far more valuabe than attacking an incomming striker before backup has arrived. I am not impressed with EPL defenders. Terry is good in the EPL and is a great leader, but that doesn't mean he could come to Italy and be the same. It is a whole different game. You call it a sterotype but the fact is that teams in the EPL bang the ball forward quickly fire shots on net every chance they get while defenders get into 1 on 1 situations repeatedly. Ignorance to that fact is not the key to winning a dispute.

I don't think you know what steretype mean, it's generalization and it's completelly unwarranted and with least basis.

Stereotype:
A generalization, usually exaggerated or oversimplified and often offensive, that is used to describe or distinguish a group.
A too-simple and therefore distorted image of a group, such as “Football players are stupid” or “The English are cold and unfriendly people.”

You don't really believe all football players are stupid do you? You just said Barzagli was smart.

BTW 1 scudetto is 1 scudetto. Roma had a very good season and Samuel was good for them.

No it's not, Roma were breathtaking that season and they ran out as champions as underdogs, no one tipped them to win the Scudetto, they beat the odds and that alone matters a whole lot more than a single Scudetto.

Cannavaro didn't fail at Inter. He was a regular starter, as he is at Real Madrid.

HE SUCKS AT REAL AND HE SUCKED AT INTER! He failed 100%.

Barzagli is yet to fail. Goal differentials aren't a reflection of 1 defender. Weak point. BTW, is my grandpa still playing keeper for Palermo? Barza does equal potential, but even now he is very good and his potential is extraordinarily high.

No one is Proven until they put on the Juve shirt and prove themselves. Anyone can come here and fail as many "proven" players have done in the past. With Juve or with other teams.

Wrong, Barzagli is yet to prove himself. I'm sorry, you can say anything about Palermo, or their keeper or their defenders, style of football, no team with such a "leader" of defense should concede so much.

Anyone we pickup is a gamble except Cannavaro or Zambrotta. Guys who have been here, been successful and can come back and fit right back into their slots. Everything for Juve is a gamble at this point. We need to put our chips on the right guy with the future in mind. I think the right guy is Barzagli.

True to some extent, but Heinze, Samuel, even Metzelder as he's free, are much lesser gambles and in the end much better options at this point for us.

 

[JCK]

Heinze or Mexes are the best defenders out there, in my opinion. I would love to have one of them at Juve, if not both.

 

[flieeeekke]

forget mexes. great old moggi had a chance to sign him, he passed, roma got him, one way or another, and there's no way on earth we could lure him away from them, unless he wants to leave which in unlikely for at least two years imo.

 

[Lion]

Stereotypes become stereotypes for a reason. Most of them are true, and this one is. Aggressive defending doesn't cut it in Serie A. Intelligence and team play are far more valuabe than attacking an incomming striker before backup has arrived. I am not impressed with EPL defenders. Terry is good in the EPL and is a great leader, but that doesn't mean he could come to Italy and be the same. It is a whole different game. You call it a sterotype but the fact is that teams in the EPL bang the ball forward quickly fire shots on net every chance they get while defenders get into 1 on 1 situations repeatedly. Ignorance to that fact is not the key to winning a dispute.

BTW 1 scudetto is 1 scudetto. Roma had a very good season and Samuel was good for them. Cannavaro didn't fail at Inter. He was a regular starter, as he is at Real Madrid.


Everything for Juve is a gamble at this point. We need to put our chips on the right guy with the future in mind. I think the right guy is Barzagli.

1-Stereotypes become stereotypes because people are ignorant and want to believe what they want to believe (example: you)

2- Agressive defending doesn't cut it Serie A? Materazzi?

3- intelligeence is more important than attacking an incoming player? that's bull. you know why? It's because most strikers in serie A will dive at the slightest touch, where in the EPL staying on your feet is more encouraged. It's not the defender's fault that the refs have no balls to give yellow cards to diving players. Terry is only good in the EPL? how would we know if he doesn't leave? by the way Terry is currently better than any Italian defender. And the Vidic-Ferdinand partnership is better than any defensive partnership in Serie A.

4- So Terry won't make it Serie A? the's bull crap since he's a defender and he's job is very simple: stop the strikers from getting a shot in goal. HOw the hell does that differ from each league? If it was a midfidler or a striker then you would have a valid point. and by the way if you want to use that excusew then you should probably know that players for Serie A could also fail in EPL.

5- Cannavaro being a regular starter at Real Madrid means nothing. He plays like crap there. Raul has been a starter at Real Madrid for the last 4 years even though he's been absolute crap in all 4 of them. and Cannavaro failed at Inter regular starter or not . He failed to show his Parma form.

6- if everything is a gamble for Juve then we should take the minimum risk. Hence why getting Samuel and Heinze (who are both proven and will be cheaper) is better than gambling on a good but overrated defender who could end up not living to our expectations. And by the way if we do end spending 15-20 million on Barzagli and he ends up being decent but nothing like Cannavaro, or Thuram for us then he will get slaughtered by both the press and the fans since those are the ones they will compare him too + with his expensive price tag he would have alot of pressure on his back.

7- Watch other leagues before you attempt to make ignorant conclusions

8- don't attempt to counter my points. I'm right and your wrong. End of discussion.

 

[JCK]

forget mexes. great old moggi had a chance to sign him, he passed, roma got him, one way or another, and there's no way on earth we could lure him away from them, unless he wants to leave which in unlikely for at least two years imo.

Heinze then.

 

[Marc]

The main point is that Tonykart wants Barzagli because he is an Italian defender, not because he is the best out there and IMO that is just lame.

8- don't attempt to counter my points. I'm right and your wrong. End of discussion.

I love this guy.

 

[#10]

1-Stereotypes become stereotypes because people are ignorant and want to believe what they want to believe (example: you)

2- Agressive defending doesn't cut it Serie A? Materazzi?

3- intelligeence is more important than attacking an incoming player? that's bull. you know why? It's because most strikers in serie A will dive at the slightest touch, where in the EPL staying on your feet is more encouraged. It's not the defender's fault that the refs have no balls to give yellow cards to diving players. Terry is only good in the EPL? how would we know if he doesn't leave? by the way Terry is currently better than any Italian defender. And the Vidic-Ferdinand partnership is better than any defensive partnership in Serie A.

4- So Terry won't make it Serie A? the's bull crap since he's a defender and he's job is very simple: stop the strikers from getting a shot in goal. HOw the hell does that differ from each league? If it was a midfidler or a striker then you would have a valid point. and by the way if you want to use that excusew then you should probably know that players for Serie A could also fail in EPL.

5- Cannavaro being a regular starter at Real Madrid means nothing. He plays like crap there. Raul has been a starter at Real Madrid for the last 4 years even though he's been absolute crap in all 4 of them. and Cannavaro failed at Inter regular starter or not . He failed to show his Parma form.

6- if everything is a gamble for Juve then we should take the minimum risk. Hence why getting Samuel and Heinze (who are both proven and will be cheaper) is better than gambling on a good but overrated defender who could end up not living to our expectations. And by the way if we do end spending 15-20 million on Barzagli and he ends up being decent but nothing like Cannavaro, or Thuram for us then he will get slaughtered by both the press and the fans since those are the ones they will compare him too + with his expensive price tag he would have alot of pressure on his back.

7- Watch other leagues before you attempt to make ignorant conclusions

8- don't attempt to counter my points. I'm right and your wrong. End of discussion.

If a defender cant cut it in Epl he is either past his best and slow OR wank.

 

[flieeeekke]

Heinze then.

samuel>barzagli>heinze

simple as that.

 

[tonykart]

Lion I don't understand how you can come to any of the conclusions you came to. You are completely ignorant, opinionated to a fault, and unneccessarily outraged. Please take a nap, have some ice cream and rejoin the conversation when you can offer up better responses than "I'm right and your wrong". You are immature, unwitty, and ignorant. End of discussion with you. Other people may disagree and most do, but still they offer decent points and counter mine. You debate like an inflamed fool. I will no longer participate in this discussion. Yourself and Vlatko have simply lost your minds and diverted to saying things like he SUCKS and im right your wrong. You may feel privaledged that I glorified your responses for as long as I did.

In Summary:

As I have mentioned 20M is too much for Barza. I would pay up to 15M and that is that. I think that he is as much of a gamble as any of the other CB's on the list and that is ok with me if Juve take that gamble. I beleive he is the future of Italian defending and that is my hope if he is indeed signed by us. Otherwise I hope he stays on Palermo and doesn't go to Inter or Milan.

I strongly beleive in signing Italian defenders, not only because they are the best defenders in the world, but because we are an Italian team and it is important to not turn out like Inter. That is what I beleive in. A primarily Italian side with some very class foreigners. I especially beleive in Italian defenders and think that Barzagli will be top notch in that category. I think he is the best option out there for us.

That is my opinion and based on the lack of intelligent feedback will go elsewhere to discuss the future of Juventus. Thank you while it lasted.

 

[Mike-e-y]

1-Stereotypes become stereotypes because people are ignorant and want to believe what they want to believe (example: you)

2- Agressive defending doesn't cut it Serie A? Materazzi?

3- intelligeence is more important than attacking an incoming player? that's bull. you know why? It's because most strikers in serie A will dive at the slightest touch, where in the EPL staying on your feet is more encouraged. It's not the defender's fault that the refs have no balls to give yellow cards to diving players. Terry is only good in the EPL? how would we know if he doesn't leave? by the way Terry is currently better than any Italian defender. And the Vidic-Ferdinand partnership is better than any defensive partnership in Serie A.

4- So Terry won't make it Serie A? the's bull crap since he's a defender and he's job is very simple: stop the strikers from getting a shot in goal. HOw the hell does that differ from each league? If it was a midfidler or a striker then you would have a valid point. and by the way if you want to use that excusew then you should probably know that players for Serie A could also fail in EPL.

5- Cannavaro being a regular starter at Real Madrid means nothing. He plays like crap there. Raul has been a starter at Real Madrid for the last 4 years even though he's been absolute crap in all 4 of them. and Cannavaro failed at Inter regular starter or not . He failed to show his Parma form.

6- if everything is a gamble for Juve then we should take the minimum risk. Hence why getting Samuel and Heinze (who are both proven and will be cheaper) is better than gambling on a good but overrated defender who could end up not living to our expectations. And by the way if we do end spending 15-20 million on Barzagli and he ends up being decent but nothing like Cannavaro, or Thuram for us then he will get slaughtered by both the press and the fans since those are the ones they will compare him too + with his expensive price tag he would have alot of pressure on his back.

7- Watch other leagues before you attempt to make ignorant conclusions

8- don't attempt to counter my points. I'm right and your wrong. End of discussion.

Brillaint points! Terry is world class he would make it anywhere NO QUESTION
Vidic-ferdinand is a quality partnership!
I love point 7
I possibly love point 8 even more!!

 

[V]

That is my opinion and based on the lack of intelligent feedback will go elsewhere to discuss the future of Juventus. Thank you while it lasted.

 

[Lion]

That is my opinion and based on the lack of intelligent feedback will go elsewhere to discuss the future of Juventus. Thank you while it lasted.

don't let the door hit your ass on your way out

 

[#10]

Lion I don't understand how you can come to any of the conclusions you came to. You are completely ignorant, opinionated to a fault, and unneccessarily outraged. Please take a nap, have some ice cream and rejoin the conversation when you can offer up better responses than "I'm right and your wrong". You are immature, unwitty, and ignorant. End of discussion with you. Other people may disagree and most do, but still they offer decent points and counter mine. You debate like an inflamed fool. I will no longer participate in this discussion. Yourself and Vlatko have simply lost your minds and diverted to saying things like he SUCKS and im right your wrong. You may feel privaledged that I glorified your responses for as long as I did.

In Summary:

As I have mentioned 20M is too much for Barza. I would pay up to 15M and that is that. I think that he is as much of a gamble as any of the other CB's on the list and that is ok with me if Juve take that gamble. I beleive he is the future of Italian defending and that is my hope if he is indeed signed by us. Otherwise I hope he stays on Palermo and doesn't go to Inter or Milan.

I strongly beleive in signing Italian defenders, not only because they are the best defenders in the world, but because we are an Italian team and it is important to not turn out like Inter. That is what I beleive in. A primarily Italian side with some very class foreigners. I especially beleive in Italian defenders and think that Barzagli will be top notch in that category. I think he is the best option out there for us.

That is my opinion and based on the lack of intelligent feedback will go elsewhere to discuss the future of Juventus. Thank you while it lasted.

I think your sumary makes your arguement much clearer. Barzagli is indeed the best out there in terms of youth and potential yet experience. But as you argued i wouldnt spend more than 15million.

The italians were the best defender, but the current crop really isnt much cop in comparison to yester year. Terry and co imho are still the best defenders around.

 

[#10]

don't let the door hit your ass on your way out

Thats a little harsh dont you think? He may or may not have been wrong, but he provided a good arguement, which actually made this thread worth reading.